New 425…Float feature…

[Modrob]

On our new 425, I’m having trouble (typical for me having troubles) with the Float feature. I had found it on the old 2001 unit by accident and found it to be easy to use. (Only glitch was sometimes the joystick would “fall out” of its Float position, but I’m sure that 20-plus years had a lot to do with that.)
I’m not having the same kind of results with this new one—seems no matter what approach I make it tends to shortly dig in, and abruptly stop me. I know it should be simple but again typical for me, I’m struggling with it. So, any tips? (No matter how simple, hit me with your comments anyway—could be I’m looking over the simplest detail)

 

[ponytug]

What are you using float for?

I only use it for things like dragging a bucket backwards to level the arena. I do not use it for forward motion because the tractor tries pop over the implement.

Just to confirm: does your new 425 control lever stays in float ok?

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

I agree.... you can't move forward with the bucket lip engaged with the ground in float because the machine will want to drive over the implement as soon as it bites. Same thing can happen in heavy packed snow banks.

I use float with the mower and brush cutter, or when sliding my forks under a pallet.

And, like mentioned, I sometimes use it for back dragging the bucket. I just did that yesterday when final leveling a bed to plant canna lilies in.

 

[m5040]

Most people do not use float for loading material into the bucket. Tip the bucket slightly down with some down pressure, drive forward, as soon as the cutting edge digs in, tip the bucket back slightly more toward a level bucket. As it digs in more you lift it slightly to get weight on the wheels for traction and not to overbite and dig too deep. It takes practice.

If the control pops out of float, it may need adjustment from the hand-lever to the valve linkage. That is assuming the control lever is reaching its extreme travel limit before it pushes the spool in the valve fully into the float position.

 

[Runner]

Non-Power Trac owner here with a question - Does the float feature on a Power Trac work like it does on a tractor, i.e., when you engage float on my 2520, the loader "floats" up and down, but the bucket tilt is locked where you last left it.

On my tractor, I set the bucket lip about an inch off the ground, then engage float to plow snow and it does not dig in because it is riding on the heel of the bucket.

Just curious.

Thanks.

 

[ponytug]

Non-Power Trac owner here with a question - Does the float feature on a Power Trac work like it does on a tractor, i.e., when you engage float on my 2520, the loader "floats" up and down, but the bucket tilt is locked where you last left it.

On my tractor, I set the bucket lip about an inch off the ground, then engage float to plow snow and it does not dig in because it is riding on the heel of the bucket.

Justs curious.

Thanks.

As described, yes.

Personally, I find that on my PT, the PT still tends to ride up over the bucket when doing as you describe, probably due to the differences in where the FEL is attached relative to the bucket lip.

For me, picking a slight angle to the bucket and then adjusting the height as needed going along by "sensing" the force seems to be more effective. I agree that is a "by the seat of the pants" style, but between hearing the motor load, and feeling the changes in load/speed of the tractor, it seems to work for me. For the record, I don't consider myself terribly adept at "rub your tummy / pat your head" sort of things.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Last fall I dug out a 50' row of canna lily bulbs with my FEL bucket. I positioned the machine perpendicular to the row, scooped them out with my large bucket, backed away from the trench, dumped the bucket on the lawn next to the trench, repeated until done.

After I was done picking the bulbs out of the piles by hand I had to put the dirt back in the trench.

Again, positioned the machine perpendicular to the trench, put the bucket in float, dumped/curled it back and forth until I could see it level (you can tell when it's on the flat by doing this a couple times and watching the bucket rock), then pulled it out of float and pushed the piles back into the trench. Got most of the dirt out of the lawn and back in the trench.

If I have to plow snow with the bucket, I do as mentioned above, put the bucket in float, dump/curl until it's level, then curl it back a smidge so I know the leading edge is off the driveway about an inch. Since our driveway is paved, I can just move along in float of the snow is light. If it's wet and heavy, I have to pull it out of float or it will tend to climb up over the bucket.

I much prefer the power angle snow blade with gauge wheels. I can tilt the blade forward enough that it'll ride over and cracks in float, or I can tip it up on the gauge wheels if I have to go into the grass.

As mentioned, a bit of seat time and you'll figure it out. (I had to read a book )

 

[Runner]

As described, yes.

Personally, I find that on my PT, the PT still tends to ride up over the bucket when doing as you describe, probably due to the differences in where the FEL is attached relative to the bucket lip.

For me, picking a slight angle to the bucket and then adjusting the height as needed going along by "sensing" the force seems to be more effective. I agree that is a "by the seat of the pants" style, but between hearing the motor load, and feeling the changes in load/speed of the tractor, it seems to work for me. For the record, I don't consider myself terribly adept at "rub your tummy / pat your head" sort of things.

All the best,

Peter

Thanks for that description. I have to do the same thing, watch the bucket and if it starts to ride up, tilt down a little and vice versa.

 

[m5040]

the PT still tends to ride up over the bucket when doing as you describe

Having both traditional tractors along with Power Tracs, the design of the PT makes it more likely to ride up over the bucket mostly because the PTs are very light on the front tires. Unlike normal tractors with the engine in the front, a PT has a rear engine and doesn't need counter weights in the rear, but once you put the loader in float, it now takes away a lot of front weight yet still having the engine weight somewhat behind the rear tires (fulcrum) which actually lifts weight off the front.
Float is really best at back-dragging buckets and blades and for mowers.
On any machine, a free floating loader bucket is at the mercy of the bucket/cutting edge angle. Too much and it will head to China, not enough and you will have a bucket just as empty as it was when you started the attempted cut.

 

[MossRoad]

... not enough and you will have a bucket just as empty as it was when you started the attempted cut.

I remember several times when I thought I was scooping something up, felt really good about it, then went to dump and there was nothing in the bucket! Completely disappointed in myself! Aww man!

 

[Modrob]

Whoa…I went to ask about float and totally forgot I already had!!
On our old 2001 model, I “accidentally” discovered the float feature, and started using it. (Any markings were worn away) It worked amazingly well, other than I had to start holding the stick in position. I don’t know why this new one acts much different—like you guys have said…it wants to drop and get run up on.
My main use for it is to lightly dig/smooth going forward. Maybe…it has something to do with the bar-tread tires? They’re a lot more “mushy” or “wiggly” so the unit doesn’t ride as smooth as our old unit with the turf tires…

 

[Modrob]

Minutes after my last post I decided to call Terry and ask about it—how it works and such.
He told me to always start the float task with the bucket about six inches off the ground (or more) then with a quick motion push the stick into float. He said the bucket will then automatically fall down to the ground level. I had been putting the bucket onto the ground first at close to the desired level. And…I may be looking at it wrong—in the past I was able to cut a very thin top off the ground, or maintain the cut to help eliminate my wash-board results…
I’ll give his suggestion a try…

 

[ponytug]

If the operator puts the lip too far into the soil, the force required to cut the soil loose increases to the point where the tractor will ride 70/over the bucket. So, if you find the tractor rising up over the bucket, I would try raising (curling) the bucket front edge slightly, to push the heel of the bucket down a little.

I wonder if your old 425 had enough resistance in the system to keep the float "stiffer" and enabling the tractor to take deeper shaves.

Personally, I don't use the bucket in float in forward motion. I haven't found that it works well on the soil we have here and the slopes we have. Moving forward to cut soil, I set the bucket lip at the level that I think is right, and then adjust the curl going forward to get enough cut in the right places without bogging things down.

I do use float using a partially open 4N1 bucket pulling the bucket in reverse. That shaves soil beautifully for me. The back blade of the bucket sets soil height, and adjusting the curl and bucket openness of the inner edge cuts soil into the bucket. That allows me to have a cutting edge nearly parallel to the soil surface for better cutting.

All the best,

Peter

 

[SpringHollow]

I am currently welding an 1850 adapter to a 1445(?) 4-in-1 bucket (I wanted the width to be as wide or wider than my tires).

Does the bucket bend if you hit a stubborn rock while cutting in reverse?

Ken

 

[ponytug]

I am currently welding an 1850 adapter to a 1445(?) 4-in-1 bucket (I wanted the width to be as wide or wider than my tires).

Does the bucket bend if you hit a stubborn rock while cutting in reverse?

Ken

I confess to bending the back portion of the bucket slightly on a few occasions, such as hitting things, and trying to get a strong grip to pull fence posts / trees. Opening the bucket until the movable section is vertical and pushing against an immovable object gets it back to flat. (I've used large stumps and retaining walls.) I accept any blame for not using the bucket "properly".

The back bucket edge does wear in the soil that we have here, so I did replace the edge with a boron steel (Bruxite) edge that was thicker (3/4"). That was a big improvement in bucket stiffness and resistance to wear. Full details here;

Bolt on blade for buckets

Just reading the description, the MET Impex looks like a high carbon steel.....very hard, but not very tough. If the bucket is wearing out from abrasion rather than impact it might be a good idea. If the wear out is more bending the other steel could be better choice. Boron tends to add...

www.tractorbynet.com

The boron steel needs to be kept hot for the entirety of the welding process to have full weld strength. (Preheat, weld, insulate for slow cooling) I used a helper to monitor temperatures during the welding and to apply more heat as needed. My million BTU torch came in handy.

All the best,

Peter

P.S. I haven't managed to bend the new Bruxite lip, yet.

 

[Modrob]

Update: I got some time in last few days to do a little more work. I tried Terry’s advice, and it pretty much took care of things. Still sometimes have a “run up onto the bucket” but I believe that’s because Im not starting with the bucket in the right position, causing it to dig in.

 

[bol4fun]

My 2017 425 doesn't float anything like it used to. I try to push it quickly forward to engage float and everything in between but it is really hit or miss....maybe 20 to 25 percent of the time, it works. It's very frustrating trying to level things out. Any tricks to get it to work better?

 

[bol4fun]

Update: I got some time in last few days to do a little more work. I tried Terry’s advice, and it pretty much took care of things. Still sometimes have a “run up onto the bucket” but I believe that’s because Im not starting with the bucket in the right position, causing it to dig in.

What did Terry tell you to do?

 

[ponytug]

My 2017 425 doesn't float anything like it used to. I try to push it quickly forward to engage float and everything in between but it is really hit or miss....maybe 20 to 25 percent of the time, it works. It's very frustrating trying to level things out. Any tricks to get it to work better?

If you have cleaned and lubricated the linkage, the valve may need to be cleaned. There is, IIRC a spring cartridge that might need cleaning, but I've never done it. I've cleaned the check valve in the valve assembly. Just get everything spotless, and then clean it again. Terry's comment to me was "open heart surgery clean".

All the best,

Peter

 

[Modrob]

What did Terry tell you to do?

Oops sorry just saw this…
He told me to raise bucket up about a foot or so, then move the joystick to the Float position. The bucket will drop down to a Float level. I was starting with it already flat on the ground and that’s when he said raise it up to start with. His directions made it much better, but I’m still having a little trouble at times. I believe it’s how I’m positioning my bucket that sometimes has me running up onto it…
Oops…I went back and read your post again…that might be similar to what was happening with my old one—I think the detent that held it in Float was bad or out-of-whack, but if I “jammed” it in and held it there, it usually worked. I figured at some point I’d need to take it apart and rebuild it…