2nd update on the Ford 1210 PTO problem.

[rabet]

Hi all,
I have just opened the hydraulic cover and removed the PTO shaft, looked in, not too much to see.
A few points I need to make before progressing.
I live in the jungle of Borneo.
I have a Ford 1210 manual (not worth the money I had to spend on the paper to print it) absolutely useless.
I have just spent the last 11 months rebuilding this from a complete heap of scrap.
The PTO shaft looks in as new condition although this tractor is over 40 years old. The person who owned the tractor bought it from
the farm he used to work for just before his retirement said "all the years running around the farm it only ever pulled a small trailer" now I wonder why??
A member of this site "Ptsg from Portugal" confirmed that what I see ref the hand turning of the PTO shaft is correct.
This tractor is a Manual transmission with single plate clutch.
From more searching I now know why this is fitted with a "one way clutch assy" Because it has a single plate clutch, if you are bush hogging, and the tractor stops forward motion, the momentum of the cutter blade turning would damage the gear train should it not have this one way clutch, (reversely powered) This I can under stand.
In the ford manual it does NOT indicate WHERE this unit is situated.

As far as I can see I have three options,
Replace this one way clutch unit
Scrap the tractor as it is useless without PTO
Think out side the box and do something else.

Replacing the clutch unit, I took some pics of what I thought might be the unit and went to a bearing supplier and asked them "can you get" They just laughed at me. No chance.
So is there any one out in the world who know where can get, can locate for me, or even send one to me, and does anybody know where to find it in the gear case.

I do not really want to scrap the tractor as I have overcome so many problems through the build.

Which leaves "thinking outside the box"
I have stated why people say you should have this unit, BUT I also have a Yanmar YM2000 tractor with single plate clutch which does NOT have this type of unit. So is it the designers of Shibaura tractors in Japan being over cautious or do you not really need one????
If I knew where this unit was located I could replace it with a standard bearing, or lock this clutch unit some how.

So as a last request to a very long post, does anyone out there, who has much more knowledge than me, know of this problem, know how to overcome and by what method, or even where is it situated because the manual just says "bearing"

I appreciate any help or advice anyone can give especially if they have solved this problem before.

Thanks for everything Rabet

 

[TractorTech]

The overrunning clutch is located in the rear end. It is #32 and #29, that Ford calls a countershaft. 2nd and 3rd pictures are the clutch. #4 is the countershaft/clutch hub Quite expensive components.
You could add an external overrunning clutch.

 

[rabet]

Thank you Tractor tech for reply, have had a good look at what you sent and I notice that it is showing Ford 1215 (mine 1210) and states production after 87, where as mine is around 84, also I do not see anything like what your pic show, in my transmission. Any other advice please.

Rabet

 

[TractorTech]

So yes, that is a 1215. The 1210 manual shows the overrunning clutch in the rear transmission/rear end. It may be like the 1215 or part of the PTO engagement coupler. Not clear.

It appears to be part of the coupler

 

[rabet]

Hello Mr tractor tech, you have been a massive help, my manual does not even have a section on the gear box, rear case only. If mine is the same at least I know where it is. your second thumb nail pic, item number 3 One-way bearing, do you have any idea where it can be obtained from please??
I will remove the oil again and top of gearbox and have a look in. your manual is far better than mine, like I said it was not worth the cost of the paper to print it.
I look forward to your reply
Many thanks
Rabet

 

[TractorTech]

Rabet, if you were in the states, I would recommend a salvage yard, but you’re not.
My advice is take it apart and see who made the bearing. Maybe it is salvageable.

The 1210 is a different setup and bearing than the 1215/1220, but those bearings are not available from New Holland.

 

[sandman2234]

Not sure I understand exactly what you are referring to with the over running clutch. I was not aware that the 1210 came with one installed.
As far as needing an overrunning clutch to keep the momentum of the bush hog from pushing the tractor, they make them that go on the pto shaft with a female/male ends so you just need to shorten your bush hog drive shaft to fit.
Overrunning Coupler PTO Clutch Fits Ford/New Holland 1-3/8" 1.375" 6 Spline | eBay

I kind of feel bad, as I have a complete bell housing and back sitting in the shed out back. Bought it for $200 a year or so ago, just in case I ever need any parts for mine. Mine is also 2 wheel drive, standard shift.
David from jax

 

[TractorTech]

Not sure I understand exactly what you are referring to with the over running clutch. I was not aware that the 1210 came with one installed.
As far as needing an overrunning clutch to keep the momentum of the bush hog from pushing the tractor, they make them that go on the pto shaft with a female/male ends so you just need to shorten your bush hog drive shaft to fit.
Overrunning Coupler PTO Clutch Fits Ford/New Holland 1-3/8" 1.375" 6 Spline | eBay

I kind of feel bad, as I have a complete bell housing and back sitting in the shed out back. Bought it for $200 a year or so ago, just in case I ever need any parts for mine. Mine is also 2 wheel drive, standard shift.
David from jax

Being that the 1210 (and other models) has a transmission PTO, it has an internal overrunning clutch. I wasn't aware of this until this post, but it does exist.

 

[rabet]

Hello Mt Tractor Tech, I drained the oil today and opened the gearshift cover and looked in. Well I think I might have seen it, but not 100% sure. may I ask a favour please, as your manual is far better than mine, could you find the relevant pages that detail how to remove this overrunning clutch and if possible email them to me as it does not look easy. There is a chance that this clutch might just be all gummed up as this tractor has never used the PTO.

Thanks for all the comments that have been sent, much appreciated

Rabet

 

[thclimer]

Messicks is a reference for parts, please confirm this link is for your exact model and year:

New Holland 1210 - 3 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR(01/83 - 12/86) Parts Diagrams

 

[rabet]

Hi thclimer, had a good look but cannot see the bearing clutch here, but thanks. Most of the gears and shafts are not obtainable.
Rabet

 

[rabet]

A big "thank you" Mr Tractor tech for the information, well I have been trying to get my thinking correct. When the PTO is not engaged is that clutch engaged or not, (I think it will be engaged) because the gear is turning, and if this tractor has been doing nothing but pulling a trailer for all its life then that bearing / clutch is going to be worn out. It will only slip if the shaft is being driven backwards by the PTO. But under normal operation with PTO engaged or dis engaged the clutch rollers should still be engaging and the first PTO counter shaft will be turning. Which could mean that bearing / gear is "toast". I notice from the spares list that most of the shafts, gears and other gear box internals cannot be obtained. "Ouch"
If this is the case the only option is to strip and find a way to permanently connect the two shafts.

What a night mare, and to think I was only inches away from that bearing and I did not know about it !!

Many thanks to you all, if any other solutions come to mind please post.

Take care all
Rabet

 

[sandman2234]

These tractors are available in the used market and also in the salvage yards in the USA. You might consider purchasing the part and having it shipped to you. It won't be cheap to have it removed and shipped, but it would get the tractor pto working again.
As an example, I purchased a complete tractor driveline, which started at the front of the bell housing and went to the pto. It did not include any sheet metal fenders or dash parts. I bought it for $200 and had a friend who worked near the seller to pick it up. These tractors typically are available when the engine or the fuel pump goes out. I very seldom see one that is shut down for something else, unless someone tried to make it do more work than it was designed to do.
David from jax

 

[rabet]

Hi all, As you know I live in the jungle of Borneo miles from anywhere and it takes me 2 hours drive over the mountains to get to a commercial centre, oh and I am 73 years old.
If there is anyone out there who feel they might be able to help me trace and aquire the components I need to repair my tractor, I would like to hear from you, as for me it would be impossible. If it were to take a week, a month, 6 months or even 1 year, it would not be a problem. Time is not the issue, but can these parts be found.
So please post if you feel you could assist me.

Thanks
Rabet

 

[TractorTech]

Rabet, pretty sure this is what you need if yours is bad:

1986 Ford 1210 Tractor Transmission Shaft & Gears | eBay

Up for sale is a transmission shaft and gears. They appear to be in good condition.

www.ebay.com

Curious, how do you get your internet?

 

[rabet]

Hello, This is good information.

My 1210 is a 1984, the one advertised is a 1986, are they the same ?? any way of checking. The details from the machine plate are :- Product identification - UC10079, Model - AC352E, Unit – 6M01B, Engine – S720 – 20183. Are you able to use this info to check if the parts will fit please.

If the parts would fit, are you able to sort it so I just send you some money ?? not sure how this works, needs some help please.

$95 USA is around MR475, I could manage that, plus the cost to get it here.



Internet, well the government of Malaysia set up a program where all schools were to have internet so the students in the rural (jungle) areas could use the internet to obtain a better education. This they did, and we were lucky to be able to hitch a ride on the school cable, costs a little extra, but we got good internet, we were very thankful.



Please let me know, if the parts will fit and are you able to help me.

I am very great full to you.



Rabet

 

[TractorTech]

According to your unit/date code, 6M01B, yours was built in Dec 1986.

Does yours have a 2 speed, 540/750 rpm PTO? I am asking as they made models for the US market and European market. That is one thing that is different. Was this tractor sold in Malaysia originally?

 

[rabet]

Hello Tractor Tech,
In answer to your questions:-
It has a single 540 rpm PTO speed.
As to where it was bought, I do not know, but if I had to guess, I would say it was bought in Malaysia. (it was not a grey import)
Where it was imported from I do not know, but it says made in Japan.
Spoke to a computer friend today about buying from Ebay USA, he seems to thing not too much of a problem, but need to set up an account. He can help me do that. So I am waiting to see what info you can turn up regarding if the items will fit, I am hoping so.
Thanks for all your help.
Rabet

 

[TractorTech]

All 1210s were built in Japan and distributed via skid. There were variations in Europe, that is why I asked.

Yes, Ebay has a great international shipping system and the seller should sell to Malaysia.

 

[rabet]

Hello Tractor tech, So are you saying that the parts should fit ??
What is "via Skid" please.

Thanks for all your assistance.
Rabet