Neighbor Claiming Prescriptive Easement?

[D&D]

I told him that he could use my driveway for his secondary access, but to please call me first.

He ignored that and just does as he pleases. I've tried to make nice with him every time I see him, but it's not working.

Is this a city mouse turned country mouse issue? Why does it bother you so much? If it’s a joint use drive, so what?

 

[D&D]

Is it possible to get a restraining order to keep someone off your property? Does someone have to physically hurt or threaten you before you can get a restraining order?

You really want to ban the local fire/ems chief?

 

[paulsharvey]

So if someone is using your property for a set time without permission they basically get squatters rights? Holy crap that’s messed up.

In almost all cases, yes. That's why in general, being a "good neighbor" is a bad idea. The length of time varies, and the requirements of it are highly different from state to state, but allowing access is a bad idea. If our OPs case though, he needs to consider what it costs to be "right". Some times you can be right, and it's still not worth the money for the fight

 

[Runner]

You really want to ban the local fire/ems chief?

I don't, but the OP apparently does. It just seems to me that if you have 50 other people using your driveway, but you want to prevent just this one, you have to have something specific to him.

 

[D&D]

In almost all cases, yes. That's why in general, being a "good neighbor" is a bad idea. The length of time varies, and the requirements of it are highly different from state to state, but allowing access is a bad idea. If our OPs case though, he needs to consider what it costs to be "right". Some times you can be right, and it's still not worth the money for the fight

adverse possession is usually a little more involved than that.

 

[paulsharvey]

adverse possession is usually a little more involved than that.

So, don't confuse adverse possession and or squatters rights with a Right of Way in Fact, or prescriptive easement.

But, if you allow (or the previous owner) access for a specific period of time, that person could have gained rights.

The other thing, so, you know there Is an easement, it may or may not be a general easement or a specific access easement to the other owners. Also, maintenance of the easement can create rights. Let's say the county has graded the easement for a period of time, like in a case where multiple people use an easement, that can create rights.

At least in FLa, if you allow someone for I think 7 years (by allow, I mean don't prevent) access, they can claim access rights. They would need to prove it though.

I think Pinion needs to do some Colo land law reading before he does anything drastic; and certainly before he spends $6000 on a lawyer.

 

[paulsharvey]

Colorado, it looks like 18 years.

It could also have been a verbal contract, or an unrecorded easement, which are also legally binding. Just do some research before going crazy.

Also, don't know what open range laws might do for this?

 

[Runner]

Colorado, it looks like 18 years.

It could also have been a verbal contract, or an unrecorded easement, which are also legally binding. Just do some research before going crazy.

Also, don't know what open range laws might do for this? View attachment 1870443

I could see a sharp attorney making the case that the property didn't belong to THIS OWNER for the last 18 years, therefore the prescriptive easement doesn't apply.

Not sure a "verbal agreement" by a previous owner (if there was one) should apply to a new owner.

 

[RjCorazza]

All interesting points. We could all "arm chair quarterback" this matter to death, but it will almost certainly need to be decided in court if both parties dig in.
One final thought that had been touched on is the fact that the neighbor is using this access road as a SECONDARY means to access his property. I suspect that a judge is going to take a dimmed view of a neighbor making such a fuss over a secondary access to his property. The neighbor is just being a jerk.

 

[dodge man]

I’ll add a couple of points.

Law enforcement hates getting involved in these things. They probably won’t get involved unless you have some kind of injunction.

What price do you put on justice? How many thousands of dollars in lawyer fees are you willing to spend?

Now I’m going to be harsh and keep in mind I’m not trying to insult you, I’m just being honest. When I’ve done surveying where a dispute is involved there is often some animosity involved. You don’t like the guy, which may be justified, but that is affecting your thinking. Unless him using this shared driveway is really doing damage I’d let it slide.

If you really want to put a stop to it being a permanent easement you could get a lawyer to send him a letter giving just him the right to use it. That would stop future owners. This might escalate things.

 

[scootr]

Agreed a secondary access is not a necessary access since there is a primary. That being said the fact that 3 other people also use this access makes it difficult to tell the fourth one no. This looks like a beef with a neighbor where all other neighbors have access.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I would look at it this way. What do you stand to gain in the end? Assuming you can get this guy legally banned from using your driveway, is it really worth the effort? How are you going to enforce it? Even if you got a court order, how are you going to keep him out if you can't put up a gate?

You would have to take pictures of all his vehicles with visible license plates and try to take him to court. Are you willing to go through that much effort? Since there is no real harm done, and others use the driveway, around here anyway, such petty, vindictive grievances are usually thrown out of court if they even get that far.

 

[JJT]

Don't sweat the small stuff. In the grand scheme of things, this is a tiny issue that's getting you worked up. Time to make some sawdust, (do something fun, relax).

 

[dodge man]

I’d say if you want to stop it you could fence the line. That doesn’t look like it would block the others from using the drive. They do have a term for that, it’s called a “spite fence”. It serves no purpose except to spite the neighbor. I’ve seen one of those built.

 

[scootr]

I’d say if you want to stop it you could fence the line. That doesn’t look like it would block the others from using the drive. They do have a term for that, it’s called a “spite fence”. It serves no purpose except to spite the neighbor. I’ve seen one of those built.

We have a water line easement next to our property. There is an access road on it for the water district to access maintenance points along the 50 plus mile line. A neighbor created an access road to the water district easement road and started running off road trucks and bikes past our house at all hours. We called the water district and reminded them of the liability associated with permitting such use. They came straight out and blocked that access and installed locked gates at strategic points to stop that type of use.
Another experience I had with a similar situation was my own property. My fence property included 1.25 acres of the neighboring parcel unknown to anyone for 20 yrs. In that time I had improved and maintained that land. When the new neighbor owner built a house and hired a surveyor they told me to move my fence. My sister being a real estate lawyer provided documentation which explained the land was mine now by law.
Not wanting to be a bad neighbor I allowed the new neighbor to move the fence with new material and a contractor of my choice. That was 15 yrs ago and the neighbor and I are still on good terms.
Being on good terms with your neighbors is worth giving a little. Besides, it was less mowing for me and I got a new fence.

 

[In.the.Piñons]

Since I bought this place, I've had a TON of trespassing. The previous owners lived 1000's of miles away, so there was no one there to keep things in check. Perhaps the previous owner didn't mind, we asked them about easements early on and they never mentioned anything about letting all the neighbors use the land.

It took us two years to get things under control, to the point we were no longer getting weekly trespassing. Our lovely neighbors did not like having access to our property taken away. They also tried to form a HOA to which we politely declined. They even tried to get the HOA pushed through (with the previous owners) while we were under contract to buy this place!!!! That's how these people operate. Yeah who wouldn't want a HOA controlling their 200+ acre ranch.

One neighbor even has five of our acres behind a locked gate. We graciously gave them a year to build their own fence and gate, but two years on, they had done nothing. We did try to give people time to adjust but it was a relentless onslaught. Stealing wood, trashing the road, dumping building materials, parking cars, speeding (65mph on our driveway), trash, calling up utility companies to get our private info, aggressive dogs paroling my land 24/7. One neighbor even cut the fence to built a road onto my driveway to give themselves easy access to park their RV behind their barn. They claimed they thought my driveway was a public road. Then there's the dirt bikes and ATV's riding on my land etc. The list goes on. Every week it was something new.

It's a difficult situation and while some may say some of these complaints are petty, as a collective it was out of control and no one should have to put up with this BS.

Getting back to this fire chief...... he isn't just trespassing for secondary access. A few months back he trespassed onto our land to take a photo of our intersection. He then used that photo, along with a photo of our street numbers and published it in the local newsletter as an example of poor signage, making his job as fireman harder. Well the signage has been that way the entire time he's lived there, but it's only a problem now?

So yeah, I think something has to be done and I don't think it's petty. No one likes someone using their "position of influence/power" to settle their private grievances. Very unprofessional to say the least. I keep trying to deescalate with this guy, but he keeps coming at us with his BS. The last time I had contact with him was in the spring. I called him to check on his horses as we had horses loose on our property. He thanked me and I thought we were finally on OK terms, but then he goes and trespasses to take photos to publish to the general public to try and shame us.

 

[MossRoad]

Read this entire thread.

Help! I need legal advice re: easements

My neighbor has an easement thru my property " for ingress and egress, 20' in width upon the existing roadway" The existing roadway is a gravel road about 10' wide. He is now trying to widen the existing road and also take more of my land at the end of this road by adverse possession or...

www.tractorbynet.com

It did not end well.

Get a lawyer if you plan to continue your quest to keep this guy off the end of your driveway. It just might not be worth it.

Yeah, principles, morals, I get it. But reality and the legal system don't always work the way we think they should. Sometimes you have to eat a turd sandwich. Sometimes you get a turd sandwich with mustard. Doesn't make it taste any better.

Read that thread from start to end.

 

[FullMetalBucket]

I could see a sharp attorney making the case that the property didn't belong to THIS OWNER for the last 18 years, therefore the prescriptive easement doesn't apply.

Not sure a "verbal agreement" by a previous owner (if there was one) should apply to a new owner.

This is why when I was looking to buy property up in NH last year I had a strict no easement rule for my realtor. Cant tell you how many nice properties I walked away from because of easements or strange covenants. The property I almost bought and wrote up an offer for included a requirement that the PO revoke the verbal access he had given out to let his friends cross through on snowmobiles . He turned out be be a giant jerk and lied about obvious things so that one fell through. For instance he had a well he said he never used but I could see the lines he used to connect it to a travel trailer still attached. He didn’t want to be responsible to have it tested, but included it in the price as it was new. Some people just suck.

 

[dodge man]

It’s nice you filled in some back story letting us know you had problems in the past. Some people are very sensitive to trespassing and others aren’t. It sounds like you have reason to be.

I’ve been licensed to survey in Illinois since 1992. I’m not sure how many surveys I’ve done but probably over a 1000. Sometimes I’m shocked by people’s lack of respect for boundaries. In your case having remote owners in the past made it worse.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, just having a lawyer send a legal letter to cease and desist is gonna cost around $1200. Maybe that is worth it to prevent future claim, but $1200 isn't going to settle a contested claim.