What are your guys thoughts on a small TLB?

[Elemento1991]

Hey all,

I’ve been tossing around ideas of what my first piece of machinery should be for a while. My fiance and I are currently flipping a house and we would like to do more flips following this one. What I am looking for from the machine is to do jobs around the house (Right now I don’t need for acreage but we do have goals of getting 5-10 in a few years time) some side jobs between houses, and moving material/digging/grading when needed at our future flips is the primary goal. Mini-ex/skid steer is the ultimate setup but I’m not operating strictly from my machine, I’m using it to help things move along. I like the idea of having one sitting at a housing project I can do whatever I need with even if it’s a little slower. I currently have a 7’x16’ flatbed trailer that I believe should fit it ok.

I had done a decent amount of searching and then stumbled upon Kubotas TLB series. They seem to offer similar digging forces to the small mini-exs. They have better hydraulic flow than other options I’ve found too. I like its compactness. It can lift over 1300lb on the FEL and breakout force on the hoe is almost double what some of the cheaper options like TYM and Kioti had. The con here is pricing which is upwards of $50,000. It’s a lot of cash upfront compared to just adding a backhoe attachment to a standard tractor. I will have this machine the rest of my life so spending the extra money isn’t something I am against but I want to be sure it’s worth it. Has anyone ran the Kubota TLB series. I’m wondering how much better they perform beyond the typical tractor with backhoe added. Are there any others I may have missed that I should be looking into as well?

Thanks!

 

[newbury]

What I am looking for from the machine is to do jobs around the house (Right now I don’t need for acreage but we do have goals of getting 5-10 in a few years time) some side jobs between houses, and moving material/digging/grading when needed at our future flips is the primary goal.

Depends on the depth of your wallet. One of the BIG advantages (in this day and time) of a TLB is the ability to move the backhoe across distance rather quickly.
Back in 2009 when I bought my B7610 and added a backhoe the cost of a standalone 7' reach backhoe was far greater.
With the advent of the Chinese min-ex's that cost has drastically declined. My B7610 setup still moves faster but it's "swing" is much smaller than a mini-ex.
If you are not looking at "traditional" tractor, tasks like hauling logs, plowing, preparing farmland the advantage of a TLB is small.

 

[rScotty]

We have a Kubota M59 TLB. Bought in 2008. I think it is important on a TLB that the backhoe have a thumb. You'll probably find like a lot of TLB guys do that BH work involves as much lifting, craning, holding, & placing things as digging. Ours is very strong and as handy as a pocket knife. Does everything. Repairs to date have been one BH cylinder (warranty), one battery, and a throttle cable.

TLBs are just handy. Especially if you like just being able to go jump on it & know that it is instantly there for chores. Everything chore-wise is ready to use.
So, ask yourself if the work you have in mind is more like chores, construction, earth and material moving and placing, landscaping & rock work....if so, then that's a TLB.
If what you do is more like Ag work: More planning, large pastures, plowing, mowing, growing hay or crops, and field work using towed implements - well, then I'd say save money by getting a traditional tractor instead of a TLB.

Frankly, a Kubota TLB half the size of ours would be just as useful - maybe even more so. They are plenty powerful. We run ours at an idle because most jobs just don't need what the M59 can do. The smaller Kubota TLBs have a category 1 3pt kit which lighter and easier to handle than the M59's category II. IMHO, Kubota should have kept making their L39 size TLB. That would be plenty for most work.

There just isn't much choice for competition in small TLBs. I know because we looked. The JCB side shift s a possible, as is Yanmar's CDL40. But both those are rare animals with unknown reliability and service. Kubota has a huge head start on the TLB market and they are all excellent - even the old ones. So Kubotas main TLB competition is their own older models.
Luck with it,
rScotty

 

[Elemento1991]

We have a Kubota M59 TLB. Bought in 2008. I think it is important on a TLB that the backhoe have a thumb. You'll probably find like a lot of TLB guys do that BH work involves as much lifting, craning, holding, & placing things as digging. Ours is very strong and as handy as a pocket knife. Does everything. Repairs to date have been one BH cylinder (warranty), one battery, and a throttle cable.

TLBs are just handy. Especially if you like just being able to go jump on it & know that it is instantly there for chores. Everything chore-wise is ready to use.
So, ask yourself if the work you have in mind is more like chores, construction, earth and material moving and placing, landscaping & rock work....if so, then that's a TLB.
If what you do is more like Ag work: More planning, large pastures, plowing, mowing, growing hay or crops, and field work using towed implements - well, then I'd say save money by getting a traditional tractor instead of a TLB.

Frankly, a Kubota TLB half the size of ours would be just as useful - maybe even more so. They are plenty powerful. We run ours at an idle because most jobs just don't need what the M59 can do. The smaller Kubota TLBs have a category 1 3pt kit which lighter and easier to handle than the M59's category II. IMHO, Kubota should have kept making their L39 size TLB. That would be plenty for most work.

There just isn't much choice for competition in small TLBs. I know because we looked. The JCB side shift s a possible, as is Yanmar's CDL40. But both those are rare animals with unknown reliability and service. Kubota has a huge head start on the TLB market and they are all excellent - even the old ones. So Kubotas main TLB competition is their own older models.
Luck with it,
rScotty

Being able to jump on and go is primarily what I am aiming for. Reading your post makes me think it’s probably the best option to look into for me. Good to hear about the reliability too. I need my machine to work as it’s not gonna be my hobby (the working on it part atleast.) I usually am pressed for time at this stage of the game and gotta keep things moving.

I just put in a French drain in at the house we’re working on a few weeks ago. I hand dug the side of the house with a mattock and my brother in law which was brutal. I got a buddies stand on track loader for the back portion of the yard and was able to regrade the property while I had it. It seems like every few weeks I’m in a situation where I could use the TLB. I just had to carry and stack a bunch of concrete bags that I could have just thrown on a pallet. Moved a bunch of buckets of gutted plaster and lath scrap I could’ve just been chucking in the front bucket parked right outside the door. I’ve got an old stone retaining wall to redo there in the spring which I’m gonna have to haul out, move a few tons of gravel and fill and move the new blocks around.

Throughout this project I was thinking about how my old man bought the biggest garden tractor offered by John Deere when I was 10 years old and he was the age I am now. I remembered all the times we broke our backs over the years and realized he could’ve just shelled out the extra money for the better tractor and it would’ve paid for itself 10 times over since then. I might as well bite the bullet once our mortgage is gone after this project and try to set myself up for the future.

 

[hodge]

You could also consider a used, full size backhoe. We bought a John Deere 310 (old, but solid and it has low hours) for $7000. We have tractors for tractor duties, and the backhoe is for cleaning overgrowth along our creek banks, working on roads, burying horses, etc. It is well worth the price, it doesn't tie up a tractor for tractor duties, it's very heavy duty, and it's strong.
Another consideration is reach. Our backhoe reaches 17 ft, which quickly becomes a minimum (depending on the task). Many compact tractor backhoes are much shorter than that- they simply wouldn't do what the 310 does, in my circumstances. Cleaning creek banks for instance, I can have the stabilizers very close to the edge of the bank, and still not reach everything.

 

[ning]

You know best what sort of "chores"/work you have in flipping; from my experience (not quite flipping, but updating/upgrading a place for someone to live in with similar goals as the flipper is other than the quick sale; plus experience with a larger piece of land), I'd expect that a mini track loader would be super useful to own - they're amazing for landscaping work in general, and rent a mini-ex when you need to do substantial digging of the deep sort. I doubt that the flipper really needs a dedicated tractor on site.

 

[etpm]

Almost 20 years ago I bought a well used 1970 something Case 580CK TLB. When I bought it I had never even sat on a backhoe and the only tractor I had experience with was a Ford 9N that I bought together with my neighbor. Anyway, I needed to put in a septic system so we could move into our newly built house. I had zero experience with septic systems too. But I learned and ended up with a septic system install that the health dept used as an example of the way septic systems should be done. I had lotsa help from the county with advice.
I also used the backhoe to dig all the ditches for water, power, and phone. I have used the loader to move countless yards of dirt and rocks.
Right now there is an excavator on my property doing some work for me while I repair my old backhoe. It is a Cat 300E. It's pretty big and has plenty of power. The owner left the key in it so that I could play with it. Even though it is a pretty big machine it rocks way more than my Case. Way more rotation of course, but not nearly the as useful for my needs. I really love the front bucket on my Case and have used the heck out of the backhoe.
Now my needs for big digging are done and the only ditches I need are narrow and in places where my big Case won't go. And excavator tracks tear up the ground way more than the tires on my Case, no matter how careful you are. I considered a small excavator and am glad I didn't buy one. Instead I am gonna sell the Case and buy a smaller TLB.
Even though I have a Yanmar YM2310 with a FEL I still want either a small TLB or a stock Yanmar backhoe for my 2310. I love my backhoe, it has done so much work, and I want something similar, but smaller.
Eric

 

[rScotty]

Being able to jump on and go is primarily what I am aiming for. Reading your post makes me think it’s probably the best option to look into for me. Good to hear about the reliability too. I need my machine to work as it’s not gonna be my hobby (the working on it part atleast.) I usually am pressed for time at this stage of the game and gotta keep things moving.

I just put in a French drain in at the house we’re working on a few weeks ago. I hand dug the side of the house with a mattock and my brother in law which was brutal. I got a buddies stand on track loader for the back portion of the yard and was able to regrade the property while I had it. It seems like every few weeks I’m in a situation where I could use the TLB. I just had to carry and stack a bunch of concrete bags that I could have just thrown on a pallet. Moved a bunch of buckets of gutted plaster and lath scrap I could’ve just been chucking in the front bucket parked right outside the door. I’ve got an old stone retaining wall to redo there in the spring which I’m gonna have to haul out, move a few tons of gravel and fill and move the new blocks around.

Throughout this project I was thinking about how my old man bought the biggest garden tractor offered by John Deere when I was 10 years old and he was the age I am now. I remembered all the times we broke our backs over the years and realized he could’ve just shelled out the extra money for the better tractor and it would’ve paid for itself 10 times over since then. I might as well bite the bullet once our mortgage is gone after this project and try to set myself up for the future.

Well, you said you wanted something that would be useful the rest of your life.
The cost is the major downside to a small TLB. But good ones do keep their value well enough to be worth a trial.

As several have pointed out, a used full size TLB is far less expensive than a smaller one. Not nearly so handy, for artistic landscaping though.

The older I get. the more I appreciate the TLB. This year the TLB and I built a nice dry stone wall. The TLB does hydraulically the fetching, bending, and lifting that I cannot do anymore. And unlike a track loader, the TLB is easy on/off access - a necessity for any chore tractor.
They aren't right for everyone, though.
rScotty

 

[sd455dan]

Buying a new Bota Op will have a unit that holds its value Much better than most.



If plans to do commercial work and is serious about sticking with it, buying a new small Kubota TLB kind of makes sense. No breakdown worries, Looks professional, long lasting unit etc.

ps. agree on getting a hydraulic thumb out of the gate, Super Handy on any hoe.

 

[ning]

I think it would be very helpful if the op @Elemento1991 could clarify if this is a house in a city, standard lot size to 1/4ac, or a house on something bigger. I got the impression that the house isn't on much land and I kinda doubt a full-sized TLB would fit.

 

[IndyIan]

I've seen the BX's used in 1/4ac situations, its basically like having 2-3 guys who don't get tired, help dig a trench or wheel barrow gravel to the backyard. You're not excavating foundations with it, but it should make landscaping easier.
They fit in all sorts of places and don't tear up a small yard like a full size or even a L47 would. I guess getting one used would avoid the $50k part, and if you put on only a couple hundred hours, its probably going to be worth the same when you're done with it.

 

[ultrarunner]

If I had only one tractor TLB it would be my BX23

It has moved hundreds of yards of gravel, built trails, planted trees and slowly taken out stumps.

The beauty is The compact size was just right to dig out a crawl space and get into places only 4’ wide.

Sometimes slower is ok when the option is doing it by hand.

At the Christmas Tree farm the L3800 is a good size…

I also have a Deere 110 that is a digging machine but find I use the BX 10 hours for every 1 with the Deere 110

 

[rScotty]

Also look at the Kubota B26. The next size up from the BX and the smallest of the compact frame TLBs.
It's been in production continuously since 2007; that's impressive....
A 4000 lb basic 3 speed TLB for mid-35K $$ & without fancy electonics or emissions.
Nice.

 

[Smokeydog]

Fortunately lucked into a used Kubota B20 TLB in 1990. It was the original TLB that has a 3pt hitch that started that series. Was a game changer on the farm. Amazing where it could go and work it could do. Had many full size tractors and backhoe already to compare with.

We have down sized our farming now and chose to maintain our wooded, hillside farm in a park-like fashion for wildlife. Deer and turkey farmers now. Kubota M59 and B26 are the machines of choice now. Even though very capable, are modified to better suit our needs.

There are other tractors with loaders and backhoes attachments, the real TLB series are made much heavier , stronger and better ergonomics. For maintenance around the houses, repairing buried utilities, landscaping, the B26 is hard to beat.

Home Depot’s here rent the B26s. Be a great option to actually work with one and gain hands on experience.

Have about $50k, bought used, in both but would ask quite a bit more in today’s market. Investment that made many happy and good returns.

 

[Elemento1991]

I think it would be very helpful if the op @Elemento1991 could clarify if this is a house in a city, standard lot size to 1/4ac, or a house on something bigger. I got the impression that the house isn't on much land and I kinda doubt a full-sized TLB would fit.

The flip house we’re doing currently is in the city. The property our home is on is about 1/2 acre currently. We’re hoping to get 5-10 acres in the future. I would have a difficult time getting a full size around the space limitations of our current house and potential projects in the future. I’m also hoping to stay out of CDL territory and be able to move it with a 3/4 ton so that kind of limits me out of the full size TLB market from what I’ve saw.

 

[Elemento1991]

Also look at the Kubota B26. The next size up from the BX and the smallest of the compact frame TLBs.
It's been in production continuously since 2007; that's impressive....
A 4000 lb basic 3 speed TLB for mid-35K $$ & without fancy electonics or emissions.
Nice.

I didn’t even realize I didn’t put the model in the original post. The B26 with the hydraulic thumb like you mentioned is the Kubota TLB I was referencing the breakout force numbers from. It’s the top machine on my list I’m considering. For me I don’t think the BX would have enough ass for some of the projects im looking to do. I figured the B26 with filled tires would have enough weight to bust its way through some PA clay and rocks. Before getting serious about pulling the trigger I’ll probably rent one for one of my upcoming projects in the spring and see if I like it.

 

[ning]

I didn’t even realize I didn’t put the model in the original post. The B26 with the hydraulic thumb like you mentioned is the Kubota TLB I was referencing the breakout force numbers from. It’s the top machine on my list I’m considering. For me I don’t think the BX would have enough ass for some of the projects im looking to do. I figured the B26 with filled tires would have enough weight to bust its way through some PA clay and rocks. Before getting serious about pulling the trigger I’ll probably rent one for one of my upcoming projects in the spring and see if I like it.

Definitely rent before you buy; other considerations on smaller pieces of land is, how easy is it to move around obstacles. "B" is the biggest I'd suggest; when you get 5-10 ac I'd expect to likely get something bigger and heavier - honestly I wouldn't have that as a consideration for now as a) it's in the future sometime and b) a BX or B will still have use on a bigger piece of land and you can deal with replace or add tractor question then.

I agree that a BX-sized TLB is likely the best choice. I'd encourage not fixating on "can it do major digging jobs" because being in town you're ideally located for renting a mini-ex which is a far better digger; get a tractor to do all of the backbreaking little jobs. There's a good enough used market that you can buy a used one, and you can definitely sell a used one if you decide you really want something bigger, but once again on a smaller lot I personally wouldn't want to drive anything bigger than a bx around!

 

[Jdolson]

Hey all,

I’ve been tossing around ideas of what my first piece of machinery should be for a while. My fiance and I are currently flipping a house and we would like to do more flips following this one. What I am looking for from the machine is to do jobs around the house (Right now I don’t need for acreage but we do have goals of getting 5-10 in a few years time) some side jobs between houses, and moving material/digging/grading when needed at our future flips is the primary goal. Mini-ex/skid steer is the ultimate setup but I’m not operating strictly from my machine, I’m using it to help things move along. I like the idea of having one sitting at a housing project I can do whatever I need with even if it’s a little slower. I currently have a 7’x16’ flatbed trailer that I believe should fit it ok.

I had done a decent amount of searching and then stumbled upon Kubotas TLB series. They seem to offer similar digging forces to the small mini-exs. They have better hydraulic flow than other options I’ve found too. I like its compactness. It can lift over 1300lb on the FEL and breakout force on the hoe is almost double what some of the cheaper options like TYM and Kioti had. The con here is pricing which is upwards of $50,000. It’s a lot of cash upfront compared to just adding a backhoe attachment to a standard tractor. I will have this machine the rest of my life so spending the extra money isn’t something I am against but I want to be sure it’s worth it. Has anyone ran the Kubota TLB series. I’m wondering how much better they perform beyond the typical tractor with backhoe added. Are there any others I may have missed that I should be looking into as well?

Thanks!

I bought a massey ferguson GC1723EB 3 years ago. Best money I have ever spent. Small but mighty and was affordable. I cannot imagine life without it now. If I had of bought anything bigger I would have had to cut many trees to get it to places. This fits anywhere. Just love this machine

 

[rScotty]

I bought a massey ferguson GC1723EB 3 years ago. Best money I have ever spent. Small but mighty and was affordable. I cannot imagine life without it now. If I had of bought anything bigger I would have had to cut many trees to get it to places. This fits anywhere. Just love this machine

I love to hear stories like that. I remember when were looking that MF has a comfortable seating position on their little tractors too.
Yesterday we had a bunch of downed trees to cut up. Mostly small trunks and large limbs. Apple, willow, and pine. Using the tracto with backhoe and thumb we would clamp onto a trunk, lift it to waist level, and slice it up with the electric chain saw. A lot less work.

 

[CoyPatton]

While lots of folks are encouraging a larger hoe, consider your work environment carefully when consider full size hoes. They simply will not fit in many areas. Also consider the depth of digging you need to do—many compact hoes have a limited digging depth some as shallow as 6’.
I would suggest avoiding adding a hoe to a compact tractor—there are lots of horror stories out there where folks have broken there tractors in half using an add-on hoe as the tractor did not have the structure to handle the forced placed on its frame for the digging process. Check the weight of a compact TLB compared to a traditional compact tractor-even look at the loader and hoe weight—that difference is framing on the TLB.