PTO Generator

[lincmercguy]

I'm thinking about getting a PTO generator for backup power for our place. I already have a manual transfer switch that was installed before we bought the place.

I have a Champion dual fuel generator that would be enough to run the well pump and keep the fridge and freezer going if needed. However, I'd like to get one that is PTO powered since I have two tractors and some diesel. I'd also like to make sure it can run my AC as well. Furnace and water heater are gas. I'm not expecting it to run everything at once. I'd also want to make sure it has good power that is okay for electronics and air conditioners.

My tractors are a JD 5105 (45hp) and a JD 5055e. The 5105 is good on fuel. The 5055e has the economy PTO mode. I haven't tried it too much because I usually run my brush hog in the regular mode. The 5055e does use more fuel running the brush hog, so maybe the 5105 would make more sense. The 5055e is definitely my snow moving tractor has it has front wheel assist and a cab. I installed the cold weather start kit on my 5105 when I rebuilt it after the fire.

I've been looking at the Winco W15PTOS, it seems appropriate for what I need. I need to check the wiring on the transfer switch to make sure it can handle 60 amps.

I see they have some three point frames as well. I'd prefer that so I can mount it to the tractor in the shop if the weather is bad.

I don't have anything that has to be powered immediately like medical equipment. So this would be brought out if we're looking at more than six hours or so without power.

 

[ptsg]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of debate between a genset vs PTO generator but there are some good PTO setups in the forum. I'm sure you'll get a lot more info as people start seeing this post.

I remember a nice one, where the PTO generator is mounted inside the shop, the that person poked a hole in the wall for the PTO shaft. So when it's needed, he just backs up to the PTO Gen and hooks up the PTO shaft.

 

[RjCorazza]

I have a Winco 15k pto generator for my home backup. It it hooked up to one 200a panel through a 60a breaker and interlock, so I have to use some common sense in what I power with it. We've only had a few greater than 4 hour outages over the past several years, but so far I like the setup. It will run the whole house, but only one AC zone during the summer.

I only have one tractor, so I do have the disadvantage of not having the tractor available. I plow snow in the immediate area, so I may have to leave the wife without power for several hours while I complete my plow run. The other disadvantage is that the wife refuses to learn how to hook the tractor up for power, but being retired that's not such a big deal.
I opted to set the generator on a trailer (the one from WinCo) so I could wheel it out of a storage shed near where it gets hooked up. There is a poster here on TBN that made a very simple but effective all weather cover out of a trash bin for his pto generator. I'm going to use his idea and make one myself eventually.

 

[Smokeydog]

Bought a Winco 10K used. Surprised the voltage gauge was off, reading high than actual. Talking with tech support the gauge was bad, no adjustment and replacement was $130. Discussed that hertz was really more important parameter to monitor and control. Bought several meters, volt, amps, hertz on Amazon and installed on generator and couple extension cords at about $5 each. Monitor on the generator and in the house.


PTO generator produce clean, steady power. Like you have two tractor options and fuel for many days if needed. Did build 3pt wheeled platform and trashcan enclosure. Helps keeping it clean during storage in shed and dry when using in inclement weather. Does also reduce the sound coming from gearbox and generator.

Only tested a couple times and have refined the enclosure to suit. Only two outages the little gas inverter generator could handle. Added a meter to its’ connecting cord that also monitors power factor, watts and Resetable kilowatt hours.

 

[Like Tractors]

I'm thinking about getting a PTO generator for backup power for our place. I already have a manual transfer switch that was installed before we bought the place.

I have a Champion dual fuel generator that would be enough to run the well pump and keep the fridge and freezer going if needed. However, I'd like to get one that is PTO powered since I have two tractors and some diesel. I'd also like to make sure it can run my AC as well. Furnace and water heater are gas. I'm not expecting it to run everything at once. I'd also want to make sure it has good power that is okay for electronics and air conditioners.

My tractors are a JD 5105 (45hp) and a JD 5055e. The 5105 is good on fuel. The 5055e has the economy PTO mode. I haven't tried it too much because I usually run my brush hog in the regular mode. The 5055e does use more fuel running the brush hog, so maybe the 5105 would make more sense. The 5055e is definitely my snow moving tractor has it has front wheel assist and a cab. I installed the cold weather start kit on my 5105 when I rebuilt it after the fire.

I've been looking at the Winco W15PTOS, it seems appropriate for what I need. I need to check the wiring on the transfer switch to make sure it can handle 60 amps.

I see they have some three point frames as well. I'd prefer that so I can mount it to the tractor in the shop if the weather is bad.

I don't have anything that has to be powered immediately like medical equipment. So this would be brought out if we're looking at more than six hours or so without power.

I decided to upgrade from a Winpower 10/15 KW to the Winco 27KW, it will power everything without a problem. My L6060 works great, my M5-091 works even better with the EPTO, less fuel use. My B2650 will run it, but I wouldn't try to start the Air Conditioner, that might be a little much for that tractor. A couple of the pictures are from an outage in July, about 9 hours.

 

[nybirdman]

Have a 10K PTO powered for my L4240 Kubota.Mounted on a trailer,correct disconnect/switch.Works well the few times it has been used.Disadvantage is that the wife would have no idea how to hook up.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I have a Baumalight 12KW PTO generator mounted on a trailer. I put a caster wheel on the trailer tongue so it can be rolled around in the barn. It's easier to hook up a trailer than it is to mount a 3pt genny.

My only complaint is, I have to remove the implement on the tractor to hook up the genny. I have 2 tractors but there are always implements on both.

During an outage, I don't run the PTO genny 24/7, just during peak use times. I use a Honda 2K gas model overnight for lights, fridge & furnace.

I like having 2 fuel sources. My 1000 gal fuel oil tank will run the tractor for a month if necessary and can be used when gas is in short supply.

I am thinking of getting a larger gas model with electric start. Maybe a 5 to 7 KW unit that will run everything but the Oven & AC. The older I get, the less likely I am to go through the effort of hooking up the PTO.

 

[Smokeydog]

With any pto generator it is important to have the driveline straight with either trailer or 3pt hitch to prevent fluctuations of voltage. Always good to have a good meter to check voltage and hertz. From what I have gleaned from people more knowledgeable than I is to keep the hertz steady at 60. The little Winco does that very well under varying loads up to rated continuous service of 10Kw with only a slight drop voltage. The cheap digital meters from Amazon are remarkably accurate compared to my Fluke multimeter. 1-2%. Have voltage, amps and hertz meters reading normal power to TV, ham radio, router, fan, led light 24/7 since November of last year. Nice to monitor hertz and one line voltage while on normal or backup power without having to do anything extra.

 

[workinonit]

I have a 25 kW Winco that I bought new for 1100 bucks. I have run it on my old 5310 and my 5090 both on EPTO. I never take my tractors out of EPTO regardless of what I'm spinning.

 

[5030]

I contemplated buying a PTO driven genny but went the other way instead. When we loose power, it's usually in the dead of winter and I didn't want to be fiddling with a PTO unit when it's below freezing anyway.

I actually have 2 standby gen sets, a diesel powered Generac that is plumbed into my bulk diesel tank next to the shop that provides essentially 220 3 phase power and a propane fired Generac 17 KW unit for the farmhouse.

Both are very convenient and totally turn key. Have had them both for 15 years now with no issues other than regular maintenance and no power interruptions except for the 45 seconds it takes for them to fire up and assume the load and both are on vacuum isolated transfer switches and 100% hands off.

I don't want to fiddle with a PTO driven unit and having to hook it up plus I don't need to be running either one of the tractors 24-7 for who knows how long and stopping to fuel them back up and checking the fluid levels. Out here, when the utility fails, it's never a quick deal, usually days at a time.

JMO. What works for me, may not work for you.

 

[lincmercguy]

I get the fiddling with the PTO in the dead of winter thing, it's not fun. Growing up, we'd leave our field tractor hooked up to the genset before storms. We had a separate tractor for feeding chores.

If I didn't have my tractor in the shop, I'd feel the same way. But if I can get it hooked up inside out of the wind and weather, even if it's cold, that's manageable. Then I can drive it out to the transfer switch with everything ready to go.

 

[LouNY]

My 25 KW pto generator is over 30 years. It is a good heavy 4 pole generator that has had several hundreds of hours put on it. Years ago when we got bad ice storms we would be out of power for a week or more. Only one of my various tractors has had the economy pto when that tractor is on the generator I'll use the economy mode. Mine is trailer mounted, however I often don't even bother putting the pin into the hitch, the trailer is good and stable just sitting there. At this time the old IH574 is the primary generator tractor.
The longest mine has run was 10 days straight, 24 hours a day. I had marked the dip stick on the old Oliver 1550 so I could check the oil while it was running and I just filled a 55 gallon drum from my tractor bulk tank and backed and pumped into the tractor tank while it was running.

 

[CalG]

I can't even imagine needing to run power constantly for a week or more.
We had a 7 day outage this past winter. The little 4K generator ran for about an hour twice a day, and for for a couple of hours in the evening.
Water pump, and freezer were the big requirement with a satisfied domestic hot water tank a close second. Showers are a MUST.
We heat with wood, so that lightens the load.

eta

Thinking of when, It was at the start of "sugar season" and we had to boil sap with lights from flashlights ;-) Oh! The troubles we endure!

 

[lincmercguy]

I wouldn't run it 24/7. Probably twice or three times a day depending on the situation. Growing up, we raised hogs, so we had to keep thr farrowing house heated.

 

[MMC]

I contemplated buying a PTO driven genny but went the other way instead. When we loose power, it's usually in the dead of winter and I didn't want to be fiddling with a PTO unit when it's below freezing anyway.

I actually have 2 standby gen sets, a diesel powered Generac that is plumbed into my bulk diesel tank next to the shop that provides essentially 220 3 phase power and a propane fired Generac 17 KW unit for the farmhouse.

Both are very convenient and totally turn key. Have had them both for 15 years now with no issues other than regular maintenance and no power interruptions except for the 45 seconds it takes for them to fire up and assume the load and both are on vacuum isolated transfer switches and 100% hands off.

I don't want to fiddle with a PTO driven unit and having to hook it up plus I don't need to be running either one of the tractors 24-7 for who knows how long and stopping to fuel them back up and checking the fluid levels. Out here, when the utility fails, it's never a quick deal, usually days at a time.

JMO. What works for me, may not work for you.

I kinda' go with this sort of solution on my farm. But first, I would suggest the OP really look at what they are trying to do. Basically, what is your true emergency load requirement? An old rule of thumb for a whole house was about 80% of your service would ever be in play at the same time (and most times never even close to that).

So...how many 120V circuits could you really get by with? Yep, frig, freezer, microwave, safety lights, a little entertainment room stuff, bathroom. You don't really need much to get through an emergency. Rule of thumb, though, any resistance heater is going to take a full circuit...

Except for your 240V stuff. Heat pumps are heavy feeders, as are electric dryers, water heaters, and stoves. So wait on the clothes and try those delicious microwave dinners. Your water heater will hold heat for a while and there are other ways to heat water in small quantities.

Driving your heat pump will really upsize your generator requirements, though. If that's your only heat, you're gonna' get cold after awhile unless your generator can handle the start up and run load.

But some of us have other ways to heat. A wood stove, a gas heating stove, gas fireplace, gas boiler, etc. For example, this ancient 1840s house runs on several inverter heat pumps normally, but an ancient gas boiler with six zones can fire up and move heat around most of the house with almost no current (circulator pumps only really create a pressure differential to move water to zones). A gas fireplace and free standing gas heating stove back everything else up.

So, I can be quite comfortable with an 8K Generac propane unit I put in myself in 2009 (right after an ice storm had me out at all hours running portable generators - enough). It supplies (8) 120V circuits and keeps this house warm and safe automatically. Use synthetic oil, a battery heater, and block heater on the engine and...in 30 seconds she purrs like a kitten and the lights come on in an outage.

The nice thing with Generacs and others is you get a mandated Transfer Switch and also a "sidecar" add-on breaker box that the generator uses to power up the circuits you choose. All in one package.

And some of you may never need much more than a portable for a few hours (yeah, I have several as back-up). In KY we get ice storms, some severe. And a farm with a few folks on it may wait a long time while linemen take care of subdivisions, replete with lots of heat pumps and kids. And that's fine. And when those poor guys on the trucks show up after days in the cold, no matter if it's 3:00 AM, they get hot coffee, hot chocolate, and something to eat. Really tough job.

I guess what all that means is I really like an automatic generator and you really need to look at your personal situation in terms of need and cost - you can put a heck of a lot of money into something you might not need...

Best of Luck to the OP

 

[lincmercguy]

I kinda' go with this sort of solution on my farm. But first, I would suggest the OP really look at what they are trying to do. Basically, what is your true emergency load requirement? An old rule of thumb for a whole house was about 80% of your service would ever be in play at the same time (and most times never even close to that).

So...how many 120V circuits could you really get by with? Yep, frig, freezer, microwave, safety lights, a little entertainment room stuff, bathroom. You don't really need much to get through an emergency. Rule of thumb, though, any resistance heater is going to take a full circuit...

Except for your 240V stuff. Heat pumps are heavy feeders, as are electric dryers, water heaters, and stoves. So wait on the clothes and try those delicious microwave dinners. Your water heater will hold heat for a while and there are other ways to heat water in small quantities.

Driving your heat pump will really upsize your generator requirements, though. If that's your only heat, you're gonna' get cold after awhile unless your generator can handle the start up and run load.

But some of us have other ways to heat. A wood stove, a gas heating stove, gas fireplace, gas boiler, etc. For example, this ancient 1840s house runs on several inverter heat pumps normally, but an ancient gas boiler with six zones can fire up and move heat around most of the house with almost no current (circulator pumps only really create a pressure differential to move water to zones). A gas fireplace and free standing gas heating stove back everything else up.

So, I can be quite comfortable with an 8K Generac propane unit I put in myself in 2009 (right after an ice storm had me out at all hours running portable generators - enough). It supplies (8) 120V circuits and keeps this house warm and safe automatically. Use synthetic oil, a battery heater, and block heater on the engine and...in 30 seconds she purrs like a kitten and the lights come on in an outage.

The nice thing with Generacs and others is you get a mandated Transfer Switch and also a "sidecar" add-on breaker box that the generator uses to power up the circuits you choose. All in one package.

And some of you may never need much more than a portable for a few hours (yeah, I have several as back-up). In KY we get ice storms, some severe. And a farm with a few folks on it may wait a long time while linemen take care of subdivisions, replete with lots of heat pumps and kids. And that's fine. And when those poor guys on the trucks show up after days in the cold, no matter if it's 3:00 AM, they get hot coffee, hot chocolate, and something to eat. Really tough job.

I guess what all that means is I really like an automatic generator and you really need to look at your personal situation in terms of need and cost - you can put a heck of a lot of money into something you might not need...

Best of Luck to the OP

Gas furnace (needs some power for the blower, but not much). On-demand gas water heater, so we would have to use hot water stuff while the generator is running. I'm with you on the clothes dryer.

But I do want something that will run the AC, even if it means I only run that while running it. It's a single central unit, 40a circuit. I wouldn definitely need to manage the load while that is running.

 

[LouNY]

My 25 KW pto generator is over 30 years. It is a good heavy 4 pole generator that has had several hundreds of hours put on it. Years ago when we got bad ice storms we would be out of power for a week or more. Only one of my various tractors has had the economy pto when that tractor is on the generator I'll use the economy mode. Mine is trailer mounted, however I often don't even bother putting the pin into the hitch, the trailer is good and stable just sitting there. At this time the old IH574 is the primary generator tractor.
The longest mine has run was 10 days straight, 24 hours a day. I had marked the dip stick on the old Oliver 1550 so I could check the oil while it was running and I just filled a 55 gallon drum from my tractor bulk tank and backed and pumped into the tractor tank while it was running.

At the time my mother was living with us, she was on hospice care and oxygen.
I don't like the fuel bill for running continuously for several days but with my generator the house works just as well or actually a bit better then when on utility power.
At the time with the electric stove and electric dryer never had a hiccup from the system.
With multiple freezers, deep well for water and oil fired boiler for heat and hot water it is just much easier to keep it running most of the time.
One time I did get some bad fuel in the Oliver that shut down the generator, my brother brought over the 7220 Magnum (over 180 hp on a dyno) we pulled mine out of the way backed that thing in found the 1000 to 540 adapter and the big ol thing just purred for a couple of days while I polished the fuel at my place and replaced the filters on the Oliver.
At half throttle she didn't use much more fuel if any then my 50 hp Oliver at the time.

 

[LouNY]

I can't even imagine needing to run power constantly for a week or more.
We had a 7 day outage this past winter. The little 4K generator ran for about an hour twice a day, and for for a couple of hours in the evening.
Water pump, and freezer were the big requirement with a satisfied domestic hot water tank a close second. Showers are a MUST.
We heat with wood, so that lightens the load.

eta

Thinking of when, It was at the start of "sugar season" and we had to boil sap with lights from flashlights ;-) Oh! The troubles we endure!

 

[MMC]

Gas furnace (needs some power for the blower, but not much). On-demand gas water heater, so we would have to use hot water stuff while the generator is running. I'm with you on the clothes dryer.

But I do want something that will run the AC, even if it means I only run that while running it. It's a single central unit, 40a circuit. I wouldn definitely need to manage the load while that is running.

I don't know exactly what your draw is on that unit. I'm...pretty old - an AC compressor "bump" from start up might be 3X the running load in the past. Newer technology (aka "soft start") might not need that capability. Probably need to zero in on that math, though.

And, not at all trying to be flippant, but could not a fan(s) get you through an emergency? I have been out in cold temps for over a week, but I don't worry about air conditioning as much. Again, it's what you and your family will accept for a short time. And, frankly, a cheap window ac unit would cool you in one room in an emergency.

Just thoughts - what you want and do is up to you...

 

[Smokeydog]

We have three old farm houses so the genny needs to be somewhat mobile. Big barn and tractor shed don’t have power so need genny ever once in a while for repair or projects. Pump water from the log cabin power to spring house to cistern for all three houses which meets the base amount of having a meter. Same bill whether I use power or not. $25/month. People living in log cabin for 300 years didn’t have indoor plumbing or electricity till 1959.