New farm... Finding livestock water lines across 126ac?

[paulsharvey]

I know I'm making fun of witching; but it is harmless, as long as you spot dig to confirm. If it works, doesn't matter if it's Indian spirits, Gypsy magic, or Voodoo, or good science that we don't understand.

 

[paulsharvey]

If you have some General Ideas of where the logical locations are; take either a gas powered air compressor, or a pallet with your generator and electric air compressor on it; rig up an Air Lance (maybe a 3/8" straight steel pipe) plumbed to quick connect air fitting And a shut off valve. Then use that, with the air doing 80% of the work to probe for the line, minium destruction. Once you hit something that feels like pipe, mark it with paint, and probe some more going 360 degrees. Once you have a good feel for the running line, dig it up (or use a combo of air and a shop vac). Sure, you can witch it to find where you want to probe, and your still gonna want a shovel to dig it up, but most of the time, you can kinda work things out.

I know your dealing with a large property, but we have 2 fixed points, the well and the waterers, and only so many ways to get from A to B.

Other option, say screw it, lay new pipe, and run a tracer wire with it.

 

[grsthegreat]

I hate to say this, but if the water to those hydrants are turned off…they were probibly leaking badly years ago. No other reason to turn them off. Yard hydrants are placed deep enough to resist freezing.

Even if you find the shutoff, might not accomplish much. That being said, there are quite a few devices to find buried poly pipe. Our water district uses one that uses pressure that bumps the water. And a device to listen for the pipe underground. Works unless pipe is totally cut. Running a steel fishtape thru a waterline will also work as long as no water 90° fittings are used. Than place a signal tracer on fishtape. Ive used this method a few times.

I have a underground wire locator i used in my business. It wont locate polypipes but will find the fishtape.

The absolute best way to find a buried pipe, dig a fence post hole.

 

[grsthegreat]

Oh, and i just have to say this. I tried water witching my 2” main to install a backflow device. I had NO idea where it was, but had general idea it ran near my driveway. Witched area 3 times, came to same spot. Hand dug down 5 feet….found 2” poly line. Dead on.

This is way before i had locate equipment.

I must be a witch……

 

[Too many Kubotas]

This is way before i had locate equipment.

I must be a witch……

Or simply capable of keeping coat hangers, a Pipe Finder, or something similar horizontal.

Not that I've tried using coat hangers, but even I can tell when something is reasonably level.

Of course, I've also haven't tried using the Pipe Finder when it's windy. I may be dumb, but not quite that dumb.

 

[bigtiller]

I used to witch a lot when I was a kid, just for the fun of it. I have never tried it with metal dousing rods of any kind, I always used a small "Y" shaped branch from an apple tree. When over what ever I was wishing for, the business end of the branch would point straight down to the ground.

The "Y" branch was about 2' long and many times I would squeeze the handles so hard that when it pointed down, the bark would get stripped off the branch.

No joke, it really happened.

 

[paulsharvey]

I dont know if it has occurred to our OP; but there might not have been a fixed connection, being that part of the run would go through a soybean field; any ditches or drainage tile or deep tillage would have destroyed the line. Is it possible they used reel line to run water to the active padock?

 

[Dadnatron]

The absolute best way to find a buried pipe, dig a fence post hole.

THIS is my main reason for knowing. Even if they end up working… I want to know where they are located if at all possible in order to avoid it. I put everything in, on my old farm, and knowing where it all ran was calming.

 

[paulsharvey]

THIS is my main reason for knowing. Even if they end up working… I want to know where they are located if at all possible in order to avoid it. I put everything in, on my old farm, and knowing where it all ran was calming.

So, I might have missed it; but, has anyone mentioned:
Back feed water from the waterer, and look for wet spots/settling/sand in the grass? Without knowing exactly how the automatic water connects/is plumbed, it's hard to say what it would take; could be as simple as a female-female fitting, and a water hose; or it could involve cutting into the supply right below the waterer, and back feeding?

I would really Want to try to separate the waterers from the existing potable water supply for this test.

If this is simply a matter of lost valves, but intake piping; this test won't help; but I would assume at least some of the piping is already damaged.

 

[ning]

The absolute best way to find a buried pipe, dig a fence post hole.

Works great for finding unmarked leach field lines too!

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I've had some luck tracing underground plastic pipes by running a 125' electrician's wire snake into them and then attaching an electrician's locator to the snake. With old plastic pipes, often they are leaking and when the water is turned off mud comes in through the leak and the pipe is full of dirt. So the snake stops when it hits the dirt.

The locator I use is a cheap one I bought on Amazon for about $50. I'd give a link but I just looked and it's no longer sold. This one looks similar but I can't vouch for it:

https://www.amazon.com/F02-Underground-Locator-Tracker-Earphone/dp/B01GDZLZOU/

To find the shutoff, look in the basement for a pipe that goes into the basement wall. Especially a plastic one. If you find one, and it has a shutoff inside, shut it off, take the pipe off the valve, and feed the snake into it until it hits something.

 

[WinterDeere]

The locator I use is a cheap one I bought on Amazon for about $50. I'd give a link but I just looked and it's no longer sold. This one looks similar but I can't vouch for it:

https://www.amazon.com/F02-Underground-Locator-Tracker-Earphone/dp/B01GDZLZOU/

I have the exact one shown there, and can say it works well, except...

1. The outer conductor in the coaxial wire from which the receiver pickup dangles cracked and came disconnected from the receiver PCB. Simple fix with a wire stripper and basic PCB soldering tools, but would be a major inconvenience if you didn't have this equipment or skill. When repairing, I could easily see that it was never soldered very well, and the cord strain relief was not properly configured.

2. The power switch on the receiver went bad after a few years. I can still jiggle mine to make it work, but will need to replace it sometime soon. It's a small PCB-mounted (edge mount) switch, so again, some skills and tools required.

I've owned mine maybe close to 10 years, and it's been used probably over 100 times, so no complaints. The performance is very good, just don't expect great durability.

Anyone using one of these, be aware that the receiver pickup detects from the sides, not the end. This is very useful, as you can swing the receiver bulb back and forth over a line, and you hear a chirp either side of the line, with a dead spot when you're directly over it. Then you can slow down and dial in on the exact point.

It usually nails my lines within 2", up to a depth of a foot on flat land. I can detect as deep as maybe 3-4 feet, if I'm close enough to the transmitter, but signal attenuation climbs with distance and depth. It gets screwy on hills, not because of the equipment, but because of any human's ability to work the trigonometry in your own head. I've seen the same with pro's running pro equipment, in fact they're almost always worse than me, albeit they're much faster and can detect much deeper.

 

[dodge man]

I’m sorry, I have to speak up. This comes up now and then, locating lines. There are lots of good ideas, witching the lines isn’t one of them. You can locate lines, common sense is the answer. Sometimes you can see a low spot, the grass is a different color, a meter pit, a valve, a shutoff etc. Talking to neighbors or old timers is a great idea.

I used the think witching was just some kind of inside joke but I know to many people that believe in it. I’ve seen it work personally, I’ve seen it fail many times. When it fails there is always a reason(excuse), those power lines threw me off, there must be an underground river here, I bet it’s a full moon tonight, there must be rebar in this pavement, etc.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I’m sorry, I have to speak up. This comes up now and then, locating lines. There are lots of good ideas, witching the lines isn’t one of them. You can locate lines, common sense is the answer. Sometimes you can see a low spot, the grass is a different color, a meter pit, a valve, a shutoff etc. Talking to neighbors or old timers is a great idea.

I used the think witching was just some kind of inside joke but I know to many people that believe in it. I’ve seen it work personally, I’ve seen it fail many times. When it fails there is always a reason(excuse), those power lines threw me off, there must be an underground river here, I bet it’s a full moon tonight, there must be rebar in this pavement, etc.

And I have to speak up. It works. Today there are modern tools that also work, but this is the low cost method.

 

[JethroB]

I know everyone's paw has done it to perfection but as someone who locates daily I've see them fail often. Here as this mornings "stuff" and my crew does this all day most days. There is a reason why every time the sticks are put to a real test they have failed. View attachment 878733View attachment 878734View attachment 878735View attachment 878736View attachment 878737

Works great for finding unmarked leach field lines too!

And phone lines! I found two just last week, in the same hole six inches one above the other. . Thankfully they were abandoned.

 

[paulsharvey]

Even with all the RD-8100s and GPR and maps/as-builts, it is a real struggle to find PVC, HDPE, Asbestos Cement or VCT water/sewer lines, or di-electric fiber. You can absolutely have $50k worth of locating equipment, and still not be able to accurately locate lines. It gets even worse if there are old lines and/or trash or debris in the ground.

Even with good equipment, accurate maps, and accurate locates, you still have to spot dig. You have any idea how many empty holes I've dug based on a GPR signal? On the flip side, have dug up a 12" WM (c900 pvc, no locate wire or tap) based on a GPR, and could Not find the 12" FM shown on maps 10 ft away. Turns out, it was 18" under the WM, and double trenched back in the day.

 

[grsthegreat]

Ok…this will be my final test of my water witching abilities. 30 years ago when they built our roads and water system, they ran a 1 or 2” poly line across the street from our house to the 10 acre lot. 6 years ago i purchased that lot. I now want to install a water meter on it as there getting ready to start a water hookup fee program that would add $12,500 hook up fee. This lot is exempt for the time being, but for how long is anyones guess.

No one on the water board has any idea where this pipe is located. I ran my metal detector all over the area hoping to find a metal stake as any rational installer would have marked it…..no such luck. Tons of bottle caps, nails, etc. no steel pin except property markers.

So i took up the old dousing rods. After walking one side of the fence i found a positive spot where the rods crossed. I reran test from opposite side, same location. I went on other side of the fence, found same location.

I marked out a 20x20’ grid in white paint and going to have 811 locate mark out area next week. Then well dig down 5 feet and see if i find anything.

I also tried dousing by placing the ends inside a piece of pipe in my hands so my hands cant move the rods. They crossed in same spot.

Since ihave absolutely no idea where this pipe is, only that it’s supposed to have been installed across roadway before road was built, i hope they find something.

Otherwise its another $4,000 to cut the road and attach to main 8” water feed, as we do know where that pipe is.

 

[Jstpssng]

Ok…this will be my final test of my water witching abilities. 30 years ago when they built our roads and water system, they ran a 1 or 2” poly line across the street from our house to the 10 acre lot. 6 years ago i purchased that lot. I now want to install a water meter on it as there getting ready to start a water hookup fee program that would add $12,500 hook up fee. This lot is exempt for the time being, but for how long is anyones guess.

No one on the water board has any idea where this pipe is located. I ran my metal detector all over the area hoping to find a metal stake as any rational installer would have marked it…..no such luck. Tons of bottle caps, nails, etc. no steel pin except property markers.

So i took up the old dousing rods. After walking one side of the fence i found a positive spot where the rods crossed. I reran test from opposite side, same location. I went on other side of the fence, found same location.

I marked out a 20x20’ grid in white paint and going to have 811 locate mark out area next week. Then well dig down 5 feet and see if i find anything.

I also tried dousing by placing the ends inside a piece of pipe in my hands so my hands cant move the rods. They crossed in same spot.

Since ihave absolutely no idea where this pipe is, only that it’s supposed to have been installed across roadway before road was built, i hope they find something.

Otherwise its another $4,000 to cut the road and attach to main 8” water feed, as we do know where that pipe is.

Good luck! I'm an avowed skeptic except that I've seen it work too often.
In 7th grade I did a talk in dowsing and brought in a pair of rods as you said. I was standing in the classroom giving my talk and as I walked across the floor, the darned rods crossed. I took another step and they uncrossed. I stepped back and forth several times, always with the same results in the same spot.

 

[bigtiller]

I believe in it also. A field tiling company I used to work for sometimes would witch for old clay field tile lines.

 

[paulsharvey]

Believe in it, kinda, but thats a far cry from trusting it. I do it, and it's generally right, but even though I do it, I'm still pretty sure it's my mind subconsciously turning the wires.

To be even 1% scientific, it shouldn't work for fiber, pvc, clay, steel, poly, ect. An poly gas line, without a wire, really has Nothing in common with a VCT sewer line. I could see if it worked on water and sewer, or maybe everything conductive; but, it's comes back to either voodoo or gypsy folk magic...

With all that said; I rate witching up there with rain turtles; I don't "believe" in it; but I'm not above trying it when desperate.