Tractor or skid steer? Just bought 150 acres.

[RussD]

When you say 150 acres of “crop land” do you mean it was formerly in row crops? Was it irrigated or do you live somewhere with adequate rainfall to grow crops and good pasture land? If so, how long ago was cropped? If it was formerly in actual crops, hire a local farmer with the correct equipment to come in and drill the correct mixture of grasses and legumes for your area. Seek out advice from grazers in your area for the correct mixture, do soil tests and bring your land up to proper PH and fertilize first.

Secondly, I know this is an equipment forum, but don’t worry so much about equipment. Every big project you described above can most economically be handled by renting the equipment (if you have the skill to do the jobs efficiently). Honestly consider your skill level, or lack there of, and hire those projects out if you lack the skill.

Finally, my two cents, visit several farms/livestock operations that practice regenerative agriculture and get an idea of how you can implement those techniques for your land. Then come up with a plan for site development (what kind of and how many outbuildings you’ll require, road location, where the sun hits your proposed farm yard in the different seasons, how your land drains, what realistic ongoing equipment needs you’ll have-snow removal, road maintenance, bale handling, pasture maintenance, building projects etc).

Figuring all that out first, including the money, time and effort you’ll save by educating yourself, assessing your wants from your needs based upon the perspective of your current capabilities, what you really are wanting to ultimately accomplish, and then incrementally moving towards realistic goals on that basis will pay huge dividends.

2 Pro tips (not that I claim pro status): First, stick with t-post for line fence, and steel pipe for your corners and ends. They’ll last a lifetime, it’s much stronger and less expensive to install. If want aesthetics, put your wooden posts on the entrance and around the yard of your home. Second, build your soil. Healthy soil equals healthy grass equals healthy livestock. Stockpile your hay (look that up) and the hay you have to feed, buy it for drought or snowpack. It’ll bring nutrients in to your property and it is way cheaper than buying all the equipment you’ll need to hay your own land. Be efficient, reduce your inputs, work with nature, not against it.

 

[buffaloman]

Get a 80 - 100 hp tractor with front end loader, four in one blade and/or grapple bucket, two sets of hydraulic outlets on the rear of tractor for fail mowers, other stuff you will add in the future. Get you or your wife a second smaller tractor with FEL to use in the boarding operation for mowing, moving hay 100 pound bales into out of barn, cleaning up exterior rings, leveling ring areas, corrals , etc. You will have areas that benefit from tractor work but your 80 hp tractor will be too large to get into. You will probably also buy a garden tractor to landscaping lawn mowing, etc. You will need two barns. One for equipment, tools, work area and another for horse stalls, etc.

One piece of advice. If you need a backhoe, rent it, buy an excavator or have someone do it for you. Adding a rear mounted backhoe on your tractor will ultimately tear it up. A john Deere dealer recommended I don't you their tractor/backhoe units because they aren't strong enough. My Massey dealer said the same thing.

 

[moparrob]

More about TLBs. There are many of them out there, but the industrial machines (think construction grade vs farm grade) will have higher loader lift capacity (big bales) and stronger backhoes, often with aux hydraulics (for thumb, auger etc.). They often have higher hydraulic flow rates than their farm siblings and 4 post ROPS.

I cant think of a better SINGLE machine for medium scale farming, home and outbuilding construction, cleaning stalls, loading big bales etc. There are better large scale farming machines and better construction machines, but if you have to buy one machine, the TLBs are perfect. They also dont tear up the gound making a tight turn like a skidsteer will, and you can haul them behind a 3/4 ton truck without a special license unlike bigger farm tractors.

My M59 is probably one of the best purchases I've ever made, and im always looking for an excuse to move dirt with it.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I may have a lot of strikes against me. I'll post a road - or a lack thereof - in a few weeks as a follow up!

Going to be using a dozer for the road based on the advice here. Rent it - and if I can't figure it out, I'll hire an operator.

If it’s “thin” enough to use a dozer without having to knock down trees and haul them out, you might also consider renting or hiring a forestry mulcher to punch the initial hole. It would make it much easier to see your work area, the obstacles and targets, and also would eliminate much of the stuff you have to push. It could end up saving you time.
Good luck. If you posted a few pictures of the woods it might help folks to assess the needs better.

 

[Aden2112]

What type of hay bales are you planning on making. If it’s for horses, then I would assume square bales. Who or how are you planning on picking up the bales on 100 acres of hay??? A bale Barron is well over 100k

Going to partner with a friend for the first season (or two). He is going to teach me the ropes. He sells bales "as they sit" in the field the first day or two - and the remainder are picked by hand (day laborers). Again, referring to an expert to get this done for the first year or two.

 

[Aden2112]

I only have 50 acres and mine was wooded when I got here. But I’ve done some of the things you are talking about so I have some questions and comments that might help. First, how deep is the wood line that separates road from fields? Are you taking shortest route, or most desired route? How substantial are the trees? Are these big things that have to be laid down, pulled out and hauled away? Is this thicket/heavy brush that can be punched thru with a forest mulcher.
Do you have a road route picked out and marked and do you have a general plan on how you will build it to manage water? With rolling hills you can have some pretty wicked erosion when it rains.
In addition to the Geofabric, are you putting down some heavier rock to start? I didn't use fabric but I used #3 railroad ballast for the foundation of my road. Made for a rougher ride but it has been quite stable. I built my road with a 30k lb excavator and tractor with boxblade. First load of x3 was 6 inches thick and a year later I had another 6 inches added. It has settled in and is pretty smooth, but I’m on clay, sand, and rock.

Given the Two week window, I might hire out the trail thru the woods then tackle the rest of it myself.
For the quote you got on putting that trail thru the woods, what did it include?

Was planning on two culverts and some small ditches along the edge of the drive for water management. This is going to be a learning experience. We are going to have a lot of construction traffic getting the barn built, so I will likely have to repair some stuff on the drive as this happens or after construction traffic is done.

Route through the woods is the best route - not necessarily the shortest route. Nothing big in the way - there are going to be about 15 6-8'' trees, but nothing larger.

Our local quarry is taking the lead on what gravel to use - the guy there assured me he knew exactly how to make this driveway last. It is going to be fabric first as well.

 

[Aden2112]

When I had my driveway (only 250 ft) put in, the neighbor did it for $1k. With a 6-way dozer, he dug down 1 foot, 12 feet wide, installed culvert, dumped in 4" rock, vib rolled it, gravel on top, level, rolled, in half a day. It would have cost me much more if I did it myself if you figure EVERYTHING in. Back then, I could make money faster at my job than I could save by doing the work myself. Everyone's situation is different though.

I haven't been able to find someone who was even remotely affordable. Closest quote was $30k for the entrance, 1/2 mile driveway, and leveling/grading the barn site. Included installation of 2 culverts. Didn't include cost of gravel or culverts - that was on me. (For reference, the second quote was $38k. And both seemed absolutely insane - but we are 10 minutes from a city center, so they are likely used to charging metro rates.

 

[Aden2112]

I was in your situation in 1993 but with a smaller piece of property. I made a business plan, a financial plan and a personal plan before buying the property. The wife & I agreed upon everything before we started. Here is what I learned:

1) if your wife and family aren't into this 1000%, it is highly probable you will have MAJOR issues that end badly. If you work outside, will she run the boarding full time 24/7? 2) It will take you more money , time and health than you have. 3) Unless you continue your outside fulltime employment, you will go bankrupt. 4) Your plan today will need to change as the economy, regulations, etc. continue to change , especially when you have no control. 5) Don't plan any longer than 3 years. Financially you must break even within that period or you will probably have too many issues and possibly fail. After a year or two into the 3 year plan, develop a new plan 6) I hope you are doing this to change your lifestyle not your income because most farming today doesn't make a profit.

If you aren't a good mechanic, don't buy used equipment. Used equipment may sound economical but a breakdown will cost you more than finance charges. Do you have a flatbed to haul your equipment to a mechanic? When haying a field and your baler breaks down or your tractor breaks down, how long will it take to fix and restart? The quality of your hay decreases quickly therefore the value deceases quickly too. Even a good rain fall will ruin hay unless you wrap it immediately. Then you are hauling 1,000 pound marsh mellows.


My advice include several ideas. a) can you obtain a boundary adjustment with the neighbor where you need the driveway to shorten it thereby reducing cost and time. b) Start developing a smaller area to reduce your financial /time issues and learn from your smaller area experience. c) If you have a market available, buy cattle in the spring and sell them in the fall. Use them to harvest the grass instead of buying equipment all all the work to make hay. d) Using electric fencing is significantly easier and less expensive than other types. I have learned many other things but too many to list here especially without knowing more details about your situation.

Have you obtained information from local farmers about your plan? Have you presented this plan to your local Agriculture Coop or extension service?

Good luck, your idea sound fun but maybe not profitable.
Ironically, the property I purchased was zoned agriculture and easily rezoned to rural residential. After two years the state passed a law requiring land use planning that the county then made the smallest parcel to be 40 acres to build a residence in agriculture area. Next they set minimum river flows that stopped any new water wells, water rights in the river basin so don't think about future potential beyond a few years.

I finally paid off the mortgage a few months ago. I love the place. We also know that when we have to sell the place and move closer to medical facilities , etc. We can't afford it. I'm 80 years old, the wife is 70 years old with medical issues.

Great advice here. We have a full 5 year business plan. First year of profit is 2025, but that profit doesn't factor in the mortgage payment. Should be in the green and cover about 75% of the mortgage payment by year 2. Break even on the mortgage payment is year 4. But we were also conservative with the business plan (I didn't want any surprises) - it is possible we will see break even on year 2.

We both have full time employment (work from home, so very flexible hours).

This is a lifestyle, not a plan to make money. If we never reach break even, I will be happy. I do not ever expect to be break even including the mortgage payment.

A) Neighbor isn't willing to consider this - we tried.
b) Good idea. Start small. Build up from there.
C) We are going to produce horse quality hay - big market for about double normal rates near us. Near a city center, so pricing is not normal here.
D) We will where ever possible.

We have a friend who is mentoring us on the hay part of the business. Another long time friend mentoring us on the boarding aspect. And yes, we presented our business plan 2 weeks ago (to about 50 active farmers). Incorporated many suggestions and got many contacts.

We are about 10 minutes from a city center - pretty large area (second largest city in the state). The land has some pretty extreme development potential. We were lucky to get it under contract.

 

[Aden2112]

When you say 150 acres of “crop land” do you mean it was formerly in row crops? Was it irrigated or do you live somewhere with adequate rainfall to grow crops and good pasture land? If so, how long ago was cropped? If it was formerly in actual crops, hire a local farmer with the correct equipment to come in and drill the correct mixture of grasses and legumes for your area. Seek out advice from grazers in your area for the correct mixture, do soil tests and bring your land up to proper PH and fertilize first.

Secondly, I know this is an equipment forum, but don’t worry so much about equipment. Every big project you described above can most economically be handled by renting the equipment (if you have the skill to do the jobs efficiently). Honestly consider your skill level, or lack there of, and hire those projects out if you lack the skill.

Finally, my two cents, visit several farms/livestock operations that practice regenerative agriculture and get an idea of how you can implement those techniques for your land. Then come up with a plan for site development (what kind of and how many outbuildings you’ll require, road location, where the sun hits your proposed farm yard in the different seasons, how your land drains, what realistic ongoing equipment needs you’ll have-snow removal, road maintenance, bale handling, pasture maintenance, building projects etc).

Figuring all that out first, including the money, time and effort you’ll save by educating yourself, assessing your wants from your needs based upon the perspective of your current capabilities, what you really are wanting to ultimately accomplish, and then incrementally moving towards realistic goals on that basis will pay huge dividends.

2 Pro tips (not that I claim pro status): First, stick with t-post for line fence, and steel pipe for your corners and ends. They’ll last a lifetime, it’s much stronger and less expensive to install. If want aesthetics, put your wooden posts on the entrance and around the yard of your home. Second, build your soil. Healthy soil equals healthy grass equals healthy livestock. Stockpile your hay (look that up) and the hay you have to feed, buy it for drought or snowpack. It’ll bring nutrients in to your property and it is way cheaper than buying all the equipment you’ll need to hay your own land. Be efficient, reduce your inputs, work with nature, not against it.

Yes, row crops (corn/beans alternating years). No irrigation - we get good rainfall here. Cropped in 2023. Yes, we are going to hire out the seed drilling and fertilizing of all 150 acres.

It is definitely an absence/lack of skill at the moment - but I will learn as we go.

Our business plan incorporated regenerative ag into the entire development of the site. We are doing 50 acres of horses - with fallow fields, etc. We have had help designing everything - and there are things in the plans I would never have thought of, like wind direction for the barn orientation.

We want aesthetics - it costs more and doesn't last as long, but what the wife wants, the wife gets.

Great advice all around - thank you!

 

[RAHarden]

IMO
#1: hire out (get it done quick and right)
#2: hire out (get it done quick and right; figure out how to maintain it later)
#3: hire out (get it done quick and right)
#4: depending on time and dollar budget; either hire (masticator) or DIY (either tractor or CTL)
#5: you're buying an attachment either way for this, but either works
#6: tractor

Tractor for many other tasks; CTL may well come in handy as well.
I think the real answer lies in the "what else are you going to use it for" section.
Be prepared for "both" being a very valid answer lol

I bought a Mahindra 2555 HST Cab and it's been a good tractor, but it's no earth mover. It's great for mowing, brush hog work, light dirt work and hauling items, like firewood. I used it for clearing a wooded area and it was fine, until I got into a bunch of dead ash trees. They were too much for it, so I hired an excavator and he was done in two days. I would hire all I could if I were you. The DIY stuff can cost more and you end up beating up your equipment.

 

[Fixastuff]

I used to take pride in doing everything myself, thinking of the money I saved. As I've gotten older I found it wiser to put more effort into making money and paying other people to do stuff, you just don't have enough hours in the day to do everything yourself and still enjoy your family.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

I'm chiming in a bit late, but will toss in my two cents worth anyway...thought much has already been said. Rent a big enough excavator to do all it can do--and that is a lot--in a short time. Then, rent a dozer to do what the excavator couldn't do. Then, figure out what you need yet to do and buy your tractor.
I also agree that a better business plan may be in order.

 

[BarryTX]

I used to take pride in doing everything myself, thinking of the money I saved. As I've gotten older I found it wiser to put more effort into making money and paying other people to do stuff, you just don't have enough hours in the day to do everything yourself and still enjoy your family.

Amen to that. Prioritize the quality family time

 

[olenjohn]

It appears you DKS about farming. I would like to see you harvest hay with a track loader. It would be even more entertaining if it’s mowed with a batwing as was suggested. Do you have any idea what’s involved? You made no mention of any equipment / implements beyond a tractor / skid steer. I expect you will get an education from the school of hard knocks. Spend an entire summer working at a farm to get a taste of reality or take mikester’s advice and “run Forrest, run”. Best of luck on your journey. It’s going to be full of surprises.

 

[LARGEONE]

Tractor...rent skid or other necessary equipment for specific jobs the tractor cannot do well. Or hire those jobs out as stated.

 

[JONNY BOYYY]

I need help figuring out what to buy!

Please tell me what YOU would do! And how YOU would approach this project.

We just bought a 150 acre farm (all crop land). All of it is rolling hills - nothing terribly steep, but not flat either.

In the next year or so, I need to:
1. Cut and grade an entrance from the road (about 50 ft of wooded area next to the road). Need to install culvert, etc. for road access.
2. Grade and install a 1/2 mile long driveway. Everything except the entrance is through the middle of a field - rolling hills - with 1 extra culvert needed
3. Grade a 60'x120' pad for our barn.
4. Clear 2.5 miles of fence line that is currently extremely overgrown honeysuckle (think 50 years of honeysuckle growth)
5. Pound about 1200 5-6'' round posts into the ground (quoted over $70k just to pound the posts, so I'll be doing this myself.)
6. Standard maintenance of pasture - so mow about 150 acres

We plan to hire someone to come in and seed hay - so roundup and a seed drill. We plan to hire that job out to someone who knows exactly what they are doing. Currently all weeds, so will hopefully be pasture and hay fields by this time next year.

But the big question:
Do I buy a tractor or a skid steer (with tracks, so a track loader)? And buying one thing - keeping it for a year to complete all of the above jobs - and then selling it and buying something different - is something I am willing to do.

Budget of about $35-40k, including any needed attachments.

I can buy a track loader for about $30k, a bush hog for $4k, and a post pounder for $4k - and be comfortably under my $40k max. Going this route means I wouldn't be able to harvest my own hay, etc until I sell the track loader and buy a tractor. And bush hogging 150 acres with a track loader is going to be rough.

Alternatively, I spend $30k on a newer 60-70 hp tractor with a loader, $5k on a post pounder, $5k on a bush hog - and be right at my max. I would probably need to rent a bulldozer or track loader to do the driveway, etc - which would be about $2000/week. No idea if I can get it done in one week or not, but my guess is closer to 2 weeks.

And it might actually be better if I buy a cheap dozer ($10k?) and sell it when I am done with it. Then buy the tractor after I sell the dozer.

I need help making a decision! Any and all advice appreciated!

150 acres is almost nothing in the farm world so you need a tractor with a loader only..to cut and bale hay you need $100k of equipment to do it ,so thats out..have it done by a custom baler..you wont like skid steers or track loaders and selling them is sometimes hard to do..selling a tractor 4x4 with a loader is the best bet and would be sold as soon as a for sale sign is put on it out by the highway ..and pound the posts in yourself or hire a fence guy..you will save a lot of money that way..

 

[Skypuppy]

Buying a tractor and just renting a dozer was another option I had considered.

How many hours do you think it would take to clear the entrance (50 wooded ft), grade a drive (1/2 mile), and grade a barn site (about a 60x120 pad - 3' high on one corner, 2' high on another corner - so not a terrible amount of grading work)?

Are we talking 5 full days? or 10 full days? And keep in mind, I have never operated a dozer, so there will be a learning curve.

There is a JD 550k that I can rent for $1800/week (max 40 hrs per week). Think I can get this done in a 1 week rental?

Strongly recommend you don't do that dozer work yourself especially as a newbie to it!

 

[buffaloman]

Aden2112 Good luck on your adventure!​

 

[chardage]

Alarm bells are ringing. This should be a warning sign telling you that this farm purchase is a bad idea. You can't afford the lifestyle you want. Mow 150 acres? WTF, you are sunk before you even begin. YOU can't afford to maintain 150 acres of park land. You can't afford even the fuel and maintenance costs for the equipment you want let alone break downs and repairs buying older equipment in your budget.

Run Forest, Run!

 

[chardage]

Alarm bells are ringing. This should be a warning sign telling you that this farm purchase is a bad idea. You can't afford the lifestyle you want. Mow 150 acres? WTF, you are sunk before you even begin. YOU can't afford to maintain 150 acres of park land. You can't afford even the fuel and maintenance costs for the equipment you want let alone break downs and repairs buying older equipment in your budget.

Run Forest, Run!

jealous?