Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydro: LOSS OF POWER when hot!

[Dmacleo]

If that's the case, I did change both fuel filters now twice, thinking originally this was the issue.

Not sure how you could ever tell if there an air pocket in there or not, it's just not a visible aspect I could pursue in any workable to visual inspection.

gotcha, GC series has clear "bowl" (lower housing) that you can see fuel in.

 

[Southernspeed]

If that's the case, I did change both fuel filters now twice, thinking originally this was the issue.

Not sure how you could ever tell if there an air pocket in there or not, it's just not a visible aspect I could pursue in any workable to visual inspection.

Yes it was the sediment bowl I was referring to, bad description on my part! I had a problem on a 1739 that the dealer couldn't find. When the tractor got hot, usually under strain too ( running a bush hog for example) and I had power/running issues, I noticed the sediment bowl had a low fuel level in it. I'd park the tractor, let it cool and it would be ok again. After much searching it turned out to be a bug in the fuel tank. Dealer had already cleaned the tank but I did it again and found it. It would settle on the bottom once the fuel flow would stop then get sucked up again once the warm fuel started started circulating and demand was higher under load. Bizarre but there you go. I also removed the small inline filter right down by the tank (not sure if you have one there?) as it was very restrictive also. The tractor was trouble free for over 1000 hours after that until I traded up.

 

[LouNY]

Out of curiosity what does your tractor have for a feed pump to the common rail pump?
It might be interesting to tee a fuel pressure gauge in just before the injection pump to see if the feed pressure is dropping from a restriction showing up or a lift pump going out.

 

[Yander]

Went to do a job about 14 miles away on our MF 1750m and was pulling an 8ft. pull behind cutter. I drove the tractor to the job as my trailer isn't quite up to the task. When I was going up slight inclines in the roadway it slowed way down, very underpowered going up hill. Then when bush hogging it would do as the OP has described and it really struggled going up slight inclines in the field I bush hogged. I got it done but I'll be honest, I think I could have done it as fast on my little SA425 with a 5' cutter.

It sounds like we are experiencing similar issues. I will say, might be in my head, but when I went back home after bushhogging for about 5 hours, it seemed to do a little better on the road going up hills.

 

[Southernspeed]

14 miles road work!!! There's dedication for ya!

 

[TopSpeed1]

Yes it was the sediment bowl I was referring to, bad description on my part! I had a problem on a 1739 that the dealer couldn't find. When the tractor got hot, usually under strain too ( running a bush hog for example) and I had power/running issues, I noticed the sediment bowl had a low fuel level in it. I'd park the tractor, let it cool and it would be ok again. After much searching it turned out to be a bug in the fuel tank. Dealer had already cleaned the tank but I did it again and found it. It would settle on the bottom once the fuel flow would stop then get sucked up again once the warm fuel started started circulating and demand was higher under load. Bizarre but there you go. I also removed the small inline filter right down by the tank (not sure if you have one there?) as it was very restrictive also. The tractor was trouble free for over 1000 hours after that until I traded up.

Understood but no sediment bowl on the 1740M. No inline filter other than the 2 large spin on fuel filters, 1 is mounted low by the right foot step and has a built in plunger primer pump, then the other is up on the side of the engine block. Both have been changed as mentioned.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Out of curiosity what does your tractor have for a feed pump to the common rail pump?
It might be interesting to tee a fuel pressure gauge in just before the injection pump to see if the feed pressure is dropping from a restriction showing up or a lift pump going out.

Beyond what I want to do TBH, if the dealer wants or has the need to "Tee in" a spot so they can monitor this then I'd certainly give the go ahead. But honestly, I would need (or want) a higher level (than myself) to do this especially while it's under warranty.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Went to do a job about 14 miles away on our MF 1750m and was pulling an 8ft. pull behind cutter. I drove the tractor to the job as my trailer isn't quite up to the task. When I was going up slight inclines in the roadway it slowed way down, very underpowered going up hill. Then when bush hogging it would do as the OP has described and it really struggled going up slight inclines in the field I bush hogged. I got it done but I'll be honest, I think I could have done it as fast on my little SA425 with a 5' cutter.

It sounds like we are experiencing similar issues. I will say, might be in my head, but when I went back home after bushhogging for about 5 hours, it seemed to do a little better on the road going up hills.

Boy oh boy, it sure sounds like you're in the exact same club! Your 1750M is the same model as mine but with 10 more ponies. I was actually trying to originally buy (or order in) this exact model, but my dealers salesperson said I couldn't do an underbelly mower with it. Understood and another reason why I even had to go with the smaller diameter turf tires.

So, not good. Your tractor sounds like it surely fits right in with this Massey problem/issue. I would be thankful if you subscribed and contributed to this thread, the more that we can provide a supporting cast, the more maybe we can get attention to this problem.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Speaking of the problem, it's been ME showing this loss of power (to my dealer) because it doesn't happen until under work load and around 40 minutes. I also asked if they had a 3pt. hitch [load] or a dyno, but my service Mgr. (Matt) said no. UGH! This load tool is what I believe is needed for any in-shop diagnostics like this.

Today (Weds 6/19/24) it was 94F and very humid here in upstate NY. So, I mowed and the logy/lack of power kicked in the earliest it ever had, I didn't time it, but I would guess easily at 20-25 minutes. I also dis-engaged the mower when it went in sluggish mode, still same effect. In fact, with mower dis-engaged, I put hand throttle full forward and could not get near 2K RIPS, in fact the engine speed did not go up at all w fully pegged hand throttle. Temp gauge was 3 bars, that's not even half way and is normal op range.

I parked her in the shade, went in and had dinner because at that point, it's basically a worthless POS!.... After dinner I came back out and had about 10 minutes of "normal" full power run time mowing. Then being frustrated again, I parked it in the pole barn, it's just too frustrating and too slow, you basically have to creep and the PTO speed is not anywhere near the 540 range. As I type this now at midnight, tomorrow I'll hopefully get the other half mowed. Maybe.

 

[JWR]

To clarify, in that Wed 6/19 situation a few hours ago, where you disengaged the mower and could not get the engine to rev on up to 2000 rpm... was that on the level, or up a hill ? .., in fwd motion with controls calling for more forward speed ? Not just sitting there, right ? I assume so...

 

[TopSpeed1]

To clarify, in that Wed 6/19 situation a few hours ago, where you disengaged the mower and could not get the engine to rev on up to 2000 rpm... was that on the level, or up a hill ? .., in fwd motion with controls calling for more forward speed ? Not just sitting there, right ? I assume so...

It was stopped completely w no forward speed, level ground (no HST pedal), full throttle and maybe half RPM range achieved. I brought down then to an idle for maybe 2 minutes, then was able to get some throttle response, not full but enough to engage the mower. Then, with the mower up to 540 PTO range I proceeded forward and for 2 seconds it was normal then dropped RPMs with the mowing and forward speed.

I even put the gear in "N" (no HST), still logy but it finally regained strength, once I engaged mower it was kinda okay and slightly sluggish, but then after going back in gear (engaged moving forward) WITH mowing; just too much for it.

 

[Southernspeed]

Understood but no sediment bowl on the 1740M. No inline filter other than the 2 large spin on fuel filters, 1 is mounted low by the right foot step and has a built in plunger primer pump, then the other is up on the side of the engine block. Both have been changed as mentioned.

Roger that. Sounds so familiar though. If you have/have access to an endoscope, that's what I used to find my bug. It was laying there right by the fuel outlet. Could be worth a look

 

[hube2]

This may be a stupid suggestion, have you tried leaving the fuel cap loose and or loosening/opening the fuel cap when the problem starts?

 

[Dmacleo]

This may be a stupid suggestion, have you tried leaving the fuel cap loose and or loosening/opening the fuel cap when the problem starts?

yeah test for vent block.

 

[TopSpeed1]

This may be a stupid suggestion, have you tried leaving the fuel cap loose and or loosening/opening the fuel cap when the problem starts?

I know with a gasser this would be a probable cause, not sure with a diesel BUT I can sure give this a try quite easily!

ON MY TO DO LIST!

Much appreciated and my next Mow will be ~this upcoming Sunday or Monday.

 

[TopSpeed1]

yeah test for vent block.

It does make sense kind of, with the tractor setting for an hour or so after the power loss it comes back for awhile, so the tank could of been vacuumed and hence the power loss (or in this case) fuel starving.
.
This will take the cake if this is it. And literally, I will eat a whole big fat cake to celebrate if this is it. Fingers crossed!

 

[WranglerX]

After a lot reading, it really sound like engine is going into fuel starvation..... First I would be sure there was no vent block to cause a vacuum in tank and make fuel hard to draw.... If that does not work I would clean and inspect and blow out all lines and clean tank and change any filters and start over at least you would eliminate fuel system.... One thing to suspect may be any rubber lines or sections being sucked flat (deterioration) to cause limited fuel flow...Next would be fuel pumps..... It really sounds like something simple is being overlooked along the way....

Towit...

Have a JD riding mower that was the most miserable frustrating anger producing thing to get started.... Cleaned tank and fuel lines and changed filter and cleaned carb, nothing helped.... Final solution was to finally find a frayed section of fuel line, it would allow pump to drawn in air molecules as it was easier to draw than fuel molecules ... It was a microscope failure at fault and was based on size of air molecules vs fuel molecules.... Air molecules being smaller and pump would suck air in, but failure was so small its did not show up as a "wet" fuel leak........ Replaced fuel line and life is good....

 

[TopSpeed1]

I went out and looked at the fuel tank and cap area. I see the overflow (back into tank) opening but I don't know where or what to look for as far as a vent goes. Is it built into the cap? I see no openings on the top of the cap.

 

[Dmacleo]

should be built into cap and most likely is hard to see.
run it, when it starts to fail leave running and pull fuel cap. wait moment then try working it. will rule out (most likely) vent issue.
as wranglerx mentioned could be collapsing /porous fuel line.

 

[hube2]

Your cap is different than mine and I can't see the entire thing. Looking at the picture of mine, see the shallow grove in the cap at the top of the image, this allows air up under the cap and above the rubber seal. The hole in the center of the cap allows the air to flow into the tank.

But Dave is right, to eliminate a blocked vent, if you unscrew the cap when the tractor acts up and power returns then the vent is blocked, or even partially blocked.