Yanmar RSA1201 Tiller Gauge Wheel repair

[Yanmar F15D]

First time poster.
I have an F15D Forte with a RSA1201 auto tiller on it.

Currently, I'm in the process of changing my rear axle seal.
While in the process I thought I'd address my gauge wheel that isn't turning.
I started the disassembly process but I'm currently stuck at this point as the shaft won't come out. I'm assuming there is a clip behind the black plastic part but I wanted to check with others before I attempt remove it.
Has anyone changed their gauge wheel bearings before? From my research, I know these gauge wheels don't seem overly popular but I've used them to help with my lines and depth and they have worked well for me so I'd like to continue to use them.

 

[Yanmar F15D]

I found this video where they call the gauge wheel a tail wheel. Different make but gives me some hope.

 

[bmaverick]

On the YTOG, we have the parts manual for the F14/F15, yet it's incomplete with not having the RSA1201 nor RSA1031 tillers in the PDF.
YANMAR F14 F15 PARTS MANUAL NPC-1464.pdf

 

[Yanmar F15D]

On the YTOG, we have the parts manual for the F14/F15, yet it's incomplete with not having the RSA1201 nor RSA1031 tillers in the PDF.
YANMAR F14 F15 PARTS MANUAL NPC-1464.pdf

I know. Unfortunately, the parts I need diagrams for are missing in that parts manual. I've been visiting Yanmar here in Japan but they always seem hesitant about giving me prints. It's frustrating. I've requested a printed copy of the RSA1201 tiller parts catalog so I'll see if I get lucky or not. Between the incomplete parts catalog, my owner's manual, and a few of the copies I've obtained, I'm slowly able to get this thing back on the ground.

 

[ponytug]

I know. Unfortunately, the parts I need diagrams for are missing in that parts manual. I've been visiting Yanmar here in Japan but they always seem hesitant about giving me prints. It's frustrating. I've requested a printed copy of the RSA1201 tiller parts catalog so I'll see if I get lucky or not. Between the incomplete parts catalog, my owner's manual, and a few of the copies I've obtained, I'm slowly able to get this thing back on the ground.

Well, I'm a little envious, but that's neither here nor there.

From personal experience, they aren't the only Japanese company to be reluctant to part with information...

What parts do you need? Can you go to a local machine shop and get a matching bearing/seal/sealed bearing? NKF makes agricultural bearings designed for uses like this.

Are they implying that a dealer ought to repair it for you? Or is it old enough that they might not want to admit that they don't have a copy, or that the assembly was made by someone else? Or just that it is proprietary? Or?

Sometimes being polite, and explaining that you want to fix it because it is such a great tool, and quietly asking for parts might help, but I'm sure that you probably have done that already.

Good luck!

All the best,

Peter

 

[Yanmar F15D]

What parts do you need? Can you go to a local machine shop and get a matching bearing/seal/sealed bearing? NKF makes agricultural bearings designed for uses like this.

Hi Peter,
Various parts non-essential parts, random seals/gaskets, and I like having parts catalogs for the bearing numbers.
Machine shops in my area (Kyushu part of Japan) are rather nonexistent. I already threw away my bearing manufacturers list, but I paged through every Japanese bearing manufacturer I could find on Google looking for a 4514 bearing, but alas I had to purchase from the States. (I even reached out to bearing sellers on Aliexpress...)

Are they implying that a dealer ought to repair it for you? Or is it old enough that they might not want to admit that they don't have a copy, or that the assembly was made by someone else? Or just that it is proprietary? Or?

Sometimes being polite, and explaining that you want to fix it because it is such a great tool, and quietly asking for parts might help, but I'm sure that you probably have done that already.

Put it this way, my farming neighbors (well into their 60s~70s) were surprised I was fixing the tractor myself. Not to say others don't fix their own tractors, but I've yet to find anyone that does. So I do think the company primarily acts as a service center and mostly sells maintenance-related parts.

When I visit Yanmar, they are able to pull up the parts diagrams on their computers. I even have an old seed sower for my rice fields and they had that in their database. So they have access to everything it seems. As far as a copy, the Yanmar official website states (in Japanese) that you can go to a Yanmar shop and request a bonded copy of the owner's instruction manuals. The shop I have been visiting always looks annoyed with my requests, despite us being completely respectful and courteous, but I did request an owner's instruction manual and the RSA1201 parts catalog.

 

[Yanmar F15D]

In case others are interested, this appears to be a very similar shaft set up to give you an idea of what the internals should look like. I know mine is different as the C-clip's groove on this one is towards the end. Mine is towards the threads. But I think nearly the rest of it is similar. This set is ~$85 USD, which is the same cost as a used set of gauge wheels, so I won't be buying this set. I have found the necessary bearings (6003, but I ordered 6003-2RS) based on the measurements the website offered. Today I will be messing around with the tiller a bit trying to get this shaft out. Will post updates if I'm successful.

 

[bmaverick]

Hi Peter,
Various parts non-essential parts, random seals/gaskets, and I like having parts catalogs for the bearing numbers.
Machine shops in my area (Kyushu part of Japan) are rather nonexistent. I already threw away my bearing manufacturers list, but I paged through every Japanese bearing manufacturer I could find on Google looking for a 4514 bearing, but alas I had to purchase from the States. (I even reached out to bearing sellers on Aliexpress...)



Put it this way, my farming neighbors (well into their 60s~70s) were surprised I was fixing the tractor myself. Not to say others don't fix their own tractors, but I've yet to find anyone that does. So I do think the company primarily acts as a service center and mostly sells maintenance-related parts.

When I visit Yanmar, they are able to pull up the parts diagrams on their computers. I even have an old seed sower for my rice fields and they had that in their database. So they have access to everything it seems. As far as a copy, the Yanmar official website states (in Japanese) that you can go to a Yanmar shop and request a bonded copy of the owner's instruction manuals. The shop I have been visiting always looks annoyed with my requests, despite us being completely respectful and courteous, but I did request an owner's instruction manual and the RSA1201 parts catalog.

The 4514 bearing is popular in the USA with Snapper, MTD, Cub Cadet, etc. It's widely used as the spindle bearings for the mower decks.

 

[ponytug]

@Yanmar F15D that is quite the adventure! I'm not surprised that you doing the repairs yourself raises a few eyebrows. In my very limited exposure to Japanese agricultural practices, my impression was that the expectation was that the service center would fix things. As challenging as they are, I love the small fields, and watching farmers working the small plots.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Yanmar F15D]

The 4514 bearing is popular in the USA with Snapper, MTD, Cub Cadet, etc. It's widely used as the spindle bearings for the mower decks.

I have a picture on my phone that I'll try to upload but I am a bit concerned with the NJ-4514 bearing compared to the original bearing. The new bearing has a smaller ball bearing. Curious if they'll hold up. But for now it is working.

 

[Yanmar F15D]

@Yanmar F15D that is quite the adventure! I'm not surprised that you doing the repairs yourself raises a few eyebrows. In my very limited exposure to Japanese agricultural practices, my impression was that the expectation was that the service center would fix things. As challenging as they are, I love the small fields, and watching farmers working the small plots.

All the best,

Peter

I was quite surprised how many don't do their own repairs! But I think that is more of a cultural thing here. Most people bring things back in to be repaired rather than fixing them themselves (whether a small appliance or changing engine oil).

I have 4 medium size rice fields I'm using this year. I'll try to find a picture of my Yanmar in action to share. But I agree, it's nice to see the fields come alive this time of the year. The other day when I came home, my neighbor, along with two of his friends (these are men in their 60s), was sitting back relaxing against a house after a long day of cutting weeds eating ice cream, and joking around. A fun sight to see.

 

[Yanmar F15D]

Comparison of the two 4514 bearings.
Left is OEM (Maker is Nachi 45BCS14)
Right is NJ-4514 from Frederick's.
Size for thr 4514 is 45mm x 80mm x 18mm

 

[bmaverick]

I was quite surprised how many don't do their own repairs! But I think that is more of a cultural thing here. Most people bring things back in to be repaired rather than fixing them themselves (whether a small appliance or changing engine oil).

I have 4 medium size rice fields I'm using this year. I'll try to find a picture of my Yanmar in action to share. But I agree, it's nice to see the fields come alive this time of the year. The other day when I came home, my neighbor, along with two of his friends (these are men in their 60s), was sitting back relaxing against a house after a long day of cutting weeds eating ice cream, and joking around. A fun sight to see.

Yes, it would be great to see how the machines are used today in their homeland. Some rice paddy fields there are so deep and other shallow. I don't know why really. As you have 4 fields, can you explain how these Yanmars do their work. I've only watched YT vids with no understanding of the work.

 

[ponytug]

Comparison of the two 4514 bearings.
Left is OEM (Maker is Nachi 45BCS14)
Right is NJ-4514 from Frederick's.
Size for thr 4514 is 45mm x 80mm x 18mm

Wild.

In general, for the same alloys, more balls of the same size gives a larger load capability as the total load L is spread over more points of contact, provided that the force on the race and the ball isn't excessive. There is going to be a pressure trade off between larger balls, with a lower surface pressure, and more balls with potentially a smaller indivicontact area.

It is not clear to me that there is "one" answer. I would trust the bearing supplier to have made a bearing compatible with the load specifications of that bearing.

Good luck,

Peter

 

[bmaverick]

Wild.

In general, for the same alloys, more balls of the same size gives a larger load capability as the total load L is spread over more points of contact, provided that the force on the race and the ball isn't excessive. There is going to be a pressure trade off between larger balls, with a lower surface pressure, and more balls with potentially a smaller indivicontact area.

It is not clear to me that there is "one" answer. I would trust the bearing supplier to have made a bearing compatible with the load specifications of that bearing.

Good luck,

Peter

I would trust the slightly smaller with more balls as the inside race (ring) is a thicker wall. Less prone to cracking when load stresses slam on it.

 

[Yanmar F15D]

Yes, it would be great to see how the machines are used today in their homeland. Some rice paddy fields there are so deep and other shallow. I don't know why really. As you have 4 fields, can you explain how these Yanmars do their work. I've only watched YT vids with no understanding of the work.

As it's my first year with my tractor but what I've seen from other farmers is that they are just tilling, tilling, tilling. Then fill up the fields with water, let them sit for a day or less, and then till again. After that, the fields will have rice put in. I just picked up a Yanmar rice transplanter from a local farmer who retired. Interesting machines.
I don't see tractors really used for anything else. I am hoping to find a stronger tractor with a front loader in the future so I can deal with my compost more efficiently. But for now, the 15hp should do fine.

 

[ponytug]

I'm more familiar with rice culture in other countries. Mostly what one is dealing with in rice paddies is pure clay. If one the first tilling one gets the soil into fairly small chunks, and then flood it, the soil will hydrate quickly, and be uniform enough to either retill or plant in day. I think that clay is a funny substance, and it is often faster to go from dry to fully wet than from damp, solid clumps, and the process is very pH dependent. (And clay for pottery is a very different story, but one that Japanese potters excel at.)

What I have seen is that the seed paddies are very carefully tilled to get a very uniform slurry/mud to plant into. Transplanted seedlings are more tolerant.

Then you have the Louisiana approach of helicopter seeding rice and crayfish. Rather different process, but one might argue that their primary business is in crayfish culture, not rice, based on the relative economics, and profits.

All the best,

Peter

 

[careyo63]

Like to see the Pics. no doubt about that!! Rice patty tires I still use to the day. Old and ugly Org. Bridgestone no doubt but they work with no leaks. Reline and new tubes in 2016. Gempler's. Mow wkly. this time of the Yr. and noticed how far the cracks spread. The large tread works great for mowing my typical Ga. rock hard clay. When it's dry and no tracks!! They had some cracks when I bought it 900 tach. Hrs. I put on them I don't think I'll wear them out! When the soil is wet I can tear it up..... No wheel weight. My ford Liquid Loaded rears.

 

[bmaverick]

I'm more familiar with rice culture in other countries. Mostly what one is dealing with in rice paddies is pure clay. If one the first tilling one gets the soil into fairly small chunks, and then flood it, the soil will hydrate quickly, and be uniform enough to either retill or plant in day. I think that clay is a funny substance, and it is often faster to go from dry to fully wet than from damp, solid clumps, and the process is very pH dependent. (And clay for pottery is a very different story, but one that Japanese potters excel at.)

What I have seen is that the seed paddies are very carefully tilled to get a very uniform slurry/mud to plant into. Transplanted seedlings are more tolerant.

Then you have the Louisiana approach of helicopter seeding rice and crayfish. Rather different process, but one might argue that their primary business is in crayfish culture, not rice, based on the relative economics, and profits.

All the best,

Peter

Here in the USA, the oldest and largest rice paddy fields are in the Carolina's. Well over 100,000 acres from the 1940s and earlier. Then the world wars broke out and the rice era nearly ended until 1984 when a duck hunter rediscovered it. Today, the Carolina rice is grown in the Carolina's, Georgia and Louisiana. There is a small area in California too.

 

[ponytug]

Here in the USA, the oldest and largest rice paddy fields are in the Carolina's. Well over 100,000 acres from the 1940s and earlier. Then the world wars broke out and the rice era nearly ended until 1984 when a duck hunter rediscovered it. Today, the Carolina rice is grown in the Carolina's, Georgia and Louisiana. There is a small area in California too.

Thomas Jefferson grew rice back in the 1700s, in Virginia, and the barrier island rice from the Carolinas is a special item.

All the best,

Peter