Lost 3-point lift when I disconnect the Loader?

[MadJack]

[this subject is on a 1986 Ford 2110 fwd/diesel]

So I am changing lout the old and tired 2-spool valve, to a new 3-spool. Of course, I didn't have all the parts on hand mostly because my working on tractors knowledge is limited to the past few years.
Anyway, I checked the fitting and inputs to be sure they matched, removed the old valve and mounted the new one and hooked up 5 of the six original hoses. Turns out I need a couple taller fittings due to the 3/6 working ports being close to each other, and I knew I would need to order hoses once I got to this particular point. (everything on it's way now)

But I needed to just back the tractor out of its (outdoor) work place for another quick job.
I unhooked the quick connects to the loader so I could start the tractor for just about a minute to move it and noticed the 3-point hitch wouldn't lift. Seems very odd to me... because last fall when I removed the loader for the new hydro pump install, the 3-point worked perfect afterwards when I needed to yard logs without the loader.

For now I am just mulling it around in my head, but the tractor should be up and running (with grapple bucket) next weekend. (hoses/fittings installed)

Anyone have thoughts? Am I about to have an issue or am I over-thinking/paranoid?

 

[WranglerX]

Sure you have the correct PB fitting in the new loader valve?....

 

[Harry in Ky]

You unplugged the quick connects, started the tractor with nothing connected? You didn't turn the spool in the diverter valve before starting the engine? If so, the three point won't work but the system relief valve will get a workout.

 

[MadJack]

Sure you have the correct PB fitting in the new loader valve?....

The new valve is a 3-spool. If it has Power Beyond I am not aware, as there is no "extra" port.
The fact that the new spool valve has not even been pressurized yet tells me this is not a concern. (yet-anyway)

 

[MadJack]

You unplugged the quick connects, started the tractor with nothing connected? You didn't turn the spool in the diverter valve before starting the engine? If so, the three point won't work but the system relief valve will get a workout.

I wasn't aware I needed to.
This is a 1986 tractor, didn't come with nor has it ever had a 'diverter valve' for a third function.
Since I wanted to add a grapple, I simply replaced a 2-spool with a new 3-spool valve. Inlet-Outlet-and 3 working ports. (plugs installed, hoses on the way) The new spool valve hasn't even been pressurized yet.

I have removed or unhooked the loader a few times (quick disconnects) as I stated with no ill effects on the tractors function.

Why on earth would disconnecting the loader hoses give the relief valve a workout? The tractors original design was to run without any attachments in the first place!

 

[MadJack]

For clarification (SEE PHOTO) The main 3/4" steel hydro-line from the pump goes into the square block just ahead of the right side floor board, and straight through to the 3-point system under the seat. The block has Pressure and reTurn quick-connects for the loader or whatever.
There are no electronics, no electric valves, no reason for any tractor function to change, unless something has gone wrong inside this square block.

Maybe the 'back story' should have been left out.
"I disconnected my loader and the 3-point hitch won't lift..."

 

[ptsg]

Harry is right. I don't want to sound rude by any means but you may want to read a little bit more about how open center hydraulic systems work.

The block you showed on the picture allows you to run the tractor with or without a loader. It has a spool that needs to be rotated. With no loader attached, you must rotate a spool in that block so the pump feeds the rest of the circuit, in this case, the 3 pt. Right now, it's pushing all the fluid through the relief valve and therefore sending all the fluid back the transmission and not feeding the 3 pt.

With the loader, you would rotate it the other way. The faded sticker on top of the block would indicate that but it's no longer readable.

With the new valve, you need the power beyond fitting for said valve as this is specific.

The Pressure line comes from the block on the tractor to feed the new valve on the P port. The power beyond line comes from the new valve and goes to the other port on the block to feed the rest of the circuit.

Lastly, the Tank line coming from the new loader valve as to connect somewhere into the transmission so it can dump the fluid there.

 

[MadJack]

ptsg, thank you for clarifying a few things! The block was 'set' to share the loader and the 3-point once the new pump was installed. I also learned how to set it from reading the Shibaura portion of this site and confirmed be the young but very competent heavy equipment mechanic. (10 to 2 o'clock) I have actually had the loader off the tractor for logging with no effect on the three point, since it was 'set' to use both the loader and the hitch. ****But now thinking back, the young mechanic did say that the proportionate valve MAY BE worn and vibrating out of position****

The second half of your reply has me confused though.
When I purchased the new valve:

I assumed it was "plug and play", and I would only need to hook the original lines into corresponding ports.
Of course adding the two new lines to operate the grapple...

I surely don't mind being wrong. I'm just trying to understand why I would need to alter this new spool valve.
Thanks for your time, it is appreciated.

 

[5030]

When it comes to hydraulics, open center, closed center or power beyond, NOTHING is plug and play.

 

[WranglerX]

Forget for a moment the the image below is only for a 2 cylinder valve (yes control block may have many more ports for cylinders) but your concern is probably the "N" port that should supply hydraulic pressure (Power) to 3 PH if you have "typical" open center system...

OR ...

 

[MadJack]

Thanks Wrangler, but I have no need to use the (N) port (figure ll) with the new 3-stick valve body, as all needed functions are covered.
The 3PH is factory plumbed.
The new valve is 'open center'.
Most reply's are about the new 3-spool that I haven't even hooked into the tractors hydraulics yet, which has nothing to do with my actual question.

I guess I will wait until the hoses/fittings arrive, then reset the proportion valve (in the block *see original photo* to use both ends of the tractor as needed.

 

[MadJack]

Follow up:

It appears the proportioning valve in 'the block' likely needs new o-rings as it (apparently & slowly) self turns when the tractor is running. (vibration)

As for the long awaited trial on the 3-spool valve operation, It Works As It Should!
$87 3-spool valve, two 8 foot hoses, and $20 in extra fittings, sure beats the expense of 'power beyond' and 'diverter' costs.

My only issue was how tight the 6 ports were on the new spool valve.
I needed a couple of these:

6410L-08-08 Hydraulic Fitting 1/2" Male O-Ring Boss X 1/2" Female O-Ring Boss | eBay

CARBON STEEL <p>6410L-08-08 LONG HYDRAULIC ADAPTER 1/2" MALE BOSS X 1/2" FEMALE BOSS (Tube O.D. / Hose I.D. Size)<p>THREAD SIZES FOR 6410L-08-08 LONG HYDRAULIC ADAPTER 3/4"-16 MALE BOSS X 3/4"-16 FEMALE BOSS<p>To measure threads, Calipers work very well.

www.ebay.com

to stack my hoses, and a couple of these: 6801-06-08 3/8" MALE JIC X 1/2" MALE O-RING BOSS 90 DEGREE HYDRAULIC FITTING | eBay to attach the new 8 foot hoses to for the grapple.

Sure I had to wait up to a week for everything to get here but it's not like I didn't have a dozen other things to do.

I try to buy local (always) but for two hoses and fittings on the ends NAPA wanted $215. I ordered these:96" X 3/8" Hydraulic Hose Assembly with 3/8" JIC & 1/2" Male Pipe, 5800 PSI | eBay
for $83 and they were here in 4 days.
$130 difference...

Thank you ptsg for your reply, it helped!

 

[ptsg]

Power Beyond is not expensive. It's just a special fitting that goes in the "N" port and a couple hoses that will make that valve connected properly without the risk of getting damaged.

These control valves are not designed to have full system pressure on the tank passages inside the valve and using the Tank port to feed the rest of the circuit, can and will eventually damage the control valve, usually in the form of a cracked housing or blown o-rings.

This is the power beyond fitting that goes in the "N" port. Without this fitting, the N and T ports are connected internally. With the fitting, it will get fluid directly from the P In port, as long as the lever are in neutral, to feed the rest of the circuit.