Buying Advice Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

[perfdoc]

tell that to my 55 year old nurse wife that died of cancer.
your statement is remarkably insensitive and adds nothing to the discussion

They’re trying to make a point although it’s inaccurate because they are ill-informed. Cancer, regardless of the type, isn’t just for “old” people. Sorry for your loss.

 

[cbosworth]

Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

DPF exemption for <25-horsepower diesel engine tractors to expire?

EPA announces new air quality standards for particulate matter, citing health risks.​

The Environmental Protection Agency announced a new rule on Wednesday to significantly reduce the level of air pollution known as particulate matter (PM) by updating the national air-quality standards, citing negative health impacts of PM exposure.

While the rule is being praised by environmental and health groups, some industry groups have signaled that it could pose a political challenge for President Joe ***** this year as they claim it will hamper American manufacturing and eliminate jobs.

“Today's action is a critical step forward that will better protect workers, families and communities from the dangerous and costly impacts of fine particle pollution,” EPA Administrator Michael Regan told reporters.

“The science is clear, soot pollution is one of the most dangerous forms of air pollution and it's linked to a range of serious and potentially deadly illnesses, including asthma and heart attacks.”

Particulate matter is made up of microscopic solid particles such as dirt, soot or smoke and liquid droplets in the air that are small enough to be inhaled. Those small particles can get into the lungs or bloodstream and contribute to health problems like asthma, respiratory symptoms, heart attacks, or premature death in people with heart or lung problems, according to the EPA.


This type of pollution comes from a variety of sources including power plants, cars, and construction sites. Wildfire smoke is also a significant source of particulate matter pollution.
“And often that is a product of triggering heart attack, cardiopulmonary events or triggering asthma attacks that are fatal,” Simms said.

Regan said the updated standard will prevent up to 4,500 premature deaths and 290,000 lost workdays in the year 2032. On that same timeline, ***** administration officials also say the new standard will yield up to $46 billion in net health benefits.

“The impact of this pollution oftentimes disproportionately affects our most vulnerable communities, including low-income communities, communities of color, children, older adults and those who struggle with heart or lung conditions,” Regan said.

“There are both things that you can calculate numerically about what are the impacts [of PM pollution] and how many deaths and how many hospitalizations, but there also are really important kinds of impacts that are hard to quantify," he added.

The previous annual standard for particulate matter was 12 micrograms per cubic meter of air. Under this new rule, the EPA is lowering the annual standard to 9 micrograms per cubic meter.

The updated rules do not revise the 24-hour standard which is meant to account for short-term spikes in pollution. That will remain at 35 micrograms per cubic meter.
President and CEO of the American Lung Association Harold Wimmer called the update “a step forward for public health,” but noted that the standards fall short of what his organization and others called for.


“While the stronger annual particle pollution standard will mean fewer asthma attacks, heart attacks, strokes and deaths, it is disappointing that EPA did not follow the strong science-based recommendations of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee and the health community to also revise the 24-hour standard to more fully protect public health,” Wimmer added.
Industry groups like the American Forest & Paper Association, American Wood Council and the group’s member company CEOs sent a letter to the White House in October expressing their opposition to the now finalized rule, saying the move, “threatens U.S. competitiveness and modernization projects in the U.S. paper and wood products industry and in other manufacturing sectors across our country.”

“This would severely undermine President *****’s promise to grow and reshore U.S. manufacturing jobs, and ultimately make American manufacturing less competitive,” the letter said. “It also would harm an industry that has been recognized as an important contributor to achieving the Administration’s carbon reduction goals, including in future procurement for federal buildings.”

Simms, who has worked in this space for 25 years, told ABC News these industry outcries aren’t new.

“I've been doing this work for 25 years in a variety of different capacities,” Simms said. “And I can say that every time that an agency like EPA has taken steps to protect people and to reduce pollution, I see this same playbook start to get utilized, which is ‘the sky is falling.’ ‘If we protect people this way, we're going to destroy business and we're going to undermine the economy.’ And there's really good data to show that that's just not true.”

Look at airports from a distance of about 10 miles and you can see a large cigar shape of smog enveloping the airport.
Although we all support clean air but lets be reasonable and realistic. Epa attacks those targets who can’t fight back.

 

[5030]

Whatever. I do my part in producing particulate emissions with both my pre 4 tractors and my 1997 F350 diesel pickup truck that is chipped up. Both my tractors will blow black smoke when worked and so will my pickup truck and I won't have it any other way. Like my dad always told me... he said, Son, if there is no smoke, there is no fire and no fire equals no power' My tactors and my truck all smoke when worked. Pizz on the EPA. So does my Western Star Class 8 road tractor with it's 3406 NZ Caterpillar.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Sounds like if all your diesels are smoking, then they are all poorly tuned

Excess fuel leads to high egts

 

[Bentrim]

EPA is busy "fixing" polluting engines. Yet they say nothing about the rubber dust from tires as you drive down the highway, heating our homes with wood now requires a catalytic converter, they seem of little concern for private jet pollution, or for that matter even commercial jet pollution. They seem not concerned at all about so many other types of particle emmissions.
Guess the want us to go all electric so the electric generation and mining of the precious minerals used in batteries can keep on polluting. They seem to have a strong desire to eliminate all fossil fuel energy and the engines that us them.
Glad I don' have a lot of years left, but I greatly fear for my children and grandchildren.

 

[Skypilota72]

You know, most of the people that die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know, and we all will probably die with something sooner or later.

Joycelyn Elders​

We ‘elders’ have lived through lead based paint, no seatbelts, coal burners, no emissions standards, and yes, many of us are sick, dying or have passed away. You are fortunate to have greater protections and awareness then we had.

Many changes have been beneficial regardless of the political or economic views shared in this category. If you’re fortunate, you may become one of the very people you have spoken of, and will perhaps have a different opinion on improvements in the standards of living as introduced by the EPA and similar organizations.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

People keep bring up airplanes.

Look at the old b-52 or an e-3 with the old j 35? Engines. You see a black cloud long before you see the plane

Versus a modern re engined KC-135

There have been big improvements in jets.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

High bypass turbofans are much more fuel efficient than engines of the past. Hell, now we have recently begun using geared turbofans to spin the N1 even faster at the same N2 rotation speed. They are extremely high bypass fans.

Also, there is development of hybrid and electric commercial aircraft.

If you aren’t in the industry, using the equipment, you just don’t know much about it. Even if you are well versed in Kubota and Deere

 

[NoTrespassing]

We ‘elders’ have lived through lead based paint, no seatbelts, coal burners, no emissions standards, and yes, many of us are sick, dying or have passed away. You are fortunate to have greater protections and awareness then we had.

Many changes have been beneficial regardless of the political or economic views shared in this category. If you’re fortunate, you may become one of the very people you have spoken of, and will perhaps have a different opinion on improvements in the standards of living as introduced by the EPA and similar organizations.

I'm no spring chicken btw.

 

[OleFarmBoy]

You know, most of the people that die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know, and we all will probably die with something sooner or later.

Joycelyn Elders​

I remember Dr. Elders' tenure. Quite controversial as she was speaking out on public policy that hurt our children, hurt our elders, and stymied social progress. The people who blocked her outspoken (and clearly based in science and statistics, but was NOT for our country's public consumption) were searching for their own sound bites without addressing the issues she raised.
I'll start with the last part of her quote - and that is probably one of the most bewildering - that everyone is going to

die with something sooner or later.

Not that anyone has just kept living!

Particulate matter in the 5 PM (in medicine, we consider the size, and use the PM10 an arbitrary standard for lung infiltration and one of many cause of COPD. PM10 means the particulates are 10 microns or less. Farmers have a disease named well before COPD became a Post WWII issue - Farmer's Lung. It probably first was coined during the dust bowl days. Since we can't clean India's particluates, or Turkey's, or Russia's, or any other country, we should watch our own contributions to the increase in lung disease.

Cigarettes were the cause of many of the dark streaked lungs I have seen removed in the post TB days when I assisted in surgery. With the decline in US smoking, lungs have gotten "cleaner looking", but microparticulates from all forms of soot and friction-induced tire wear (Steel belted radials reduced tire flexion enough that the even smaller microparticulates are now found in the air sacs, not just the bronchioles), and especially after 9/11 we have seen a rise in chronic lung disease.

These EPA measures are not going to remove "Farmer's Lung" from medical lexicon, yet the statistics do show that the increased microparticulate load affects long term health, and some people - asthmatics, chronic inflammatory diseased folks, and over-stressed sleep deprived folks can suffer from inflammatory triggers that yield coughing fits that seem to never end to sudden cardiac arrest.

These tighter EPA standards are not going to improve lung health in the USA very much - if farmers won't wear microparticulate respirators to improve their chances of living into their 90's, then they are going to breath dust, grinding and mowing detritus, irritating volatiles, and wear out their lungs. I can't count the people I've seen die in ICUs on ventilators whose lungs just couldn't work anymore - not after SARS-CoV-2. But I have seen old Farmers gasping for breath with severe COPD who also smoked since their service in the war - it is not a good way to go. Statistically, young children around factories (especially refineries) and National Highways do have higher rates of asthma but not as many die of the disease while growing up, they usually make it to their 20-30's before they become regulars in the ICU's. Not a huge number of disabled asthmatics, but too many for me to ignore.

Oh - Jocelyn did help shine a light on the crisis when the uneducated right wingers were stating that homosexuality was <1% of the population. Turns out even after the multiple HIV deaths, homosexuality is somewhere in the 3-6% of population. That percentage is across the board, across the workplace, and across the religious affiliations. She was lambasted for so much, and rightfully so as she was way too outspoken to helpfully move public health policy. But when America was denying any significant alternate lifestyle groups, she was showing statistics that didn't agree with their (our) worldview. For all her bluster, it made medicine start analyzing the statistics and helped kickstart the anti-viral and retro-viral innovation.

I'm retired from medicine for now, if the system gets further strained I may be back part-time, but I am sick of watching people die from cardiac and pulmonary diseases!

 

[super55]

The EPA is one of the strongest government agencies with little to no oversight. Regulations they can just create and implement. Tier 5 is looking to do a 75 to 90% increased reduction from Tier 4 whether the technology is available to make it happen or not.

Hopefully its not like the Ford vs. International/Navistar debacle all over again where there were a string of problems and ultimately the consumer paid the price.

I was watching a youtube video from an auctioneer and he was talking about how JD European tractors pull a premium in US auctions because you don't need DEF to meet emission standards there.

 

[troverman]

CARB, the EPA, and many other tax-payer funded agencies struggle to find a reason to be. They served a purpose, but have gotten addicted to the power and most importantly, the money that flows in. There is an economic principle called the law of diminishing marginal utility. It states that initially, it only takes a small input to have a big change on something. But over time, it takes more and more of the same input to result in a smaller and smaller effect. The same concept could be applied to an addict. And here we are, after greatly reducing much of the pollution with reasonable and affordable solutions now grasping at straws, forcing the costs of machinery and vehicles skyward to gain 'a few micrograms less' of particulate matter.

Everyone wants clean air, clean water, and good health. But unfortunately illness and death comes for all of us. There are numerous examples of people who smoked until they were 90, or drank alcohol everyday until old age, or were overweight, etc and still lived long past the life expectancy...and numerous examples of people doing "everything right" that died early.

If this rule plays out, average homeowners wanting a Kubota BX or JD 1-series will now get to pay a few thousand more to gain a less reliable tractor that they might put 20 or 30 hours on per year. Meanwhile, I continue to drive my 2005 F-350 diesel daily which spews more PM probably on one long drive than these small tractors will emit in a year.

 

[TPerini]

So the EU & US are saving the world while China and the rest are building coal fired plants faster than you can blink, maybe a little over exaggerated. but China alone built 65 last year. I would imagine their increases in these plants is for them to keep up with the products imported by the EU & US. So with that I ask are we just shifting the pollution or are we gaining on the problem?

 

[aircommuter]

California started this with the creation of CARB, they specialize in busy work. Find something to keep themselves busy. Remember 2018 Diesel truck ban was going to save xxxxx cancer deaths. The lead scientist was found to have a phony PHD. Name Hein Tran. They continued to say they believed in their science. Healthcare rates haven’t gone down? There was a website called Kill Carb dot Org. The state took over that site. It exposed the lies. One of their scientists with a real PHD proved that only 5% of particulate matter came from Diesel engines. He was promptly fired. They have a billion dollar annual budget funded by smog checks and other taxes.
Now it’s gas stoves, OMG I knew that it was all those cooks that were the COPD victims. I wonder how much pollution is created making DEF, the containers for it, hauling it, and disposal of the containers. Must be factored in? I could go on. But I have shown more than they can answer to already. Plus I have things to do.

 

[EddieWalker]

If it wasn't so damaging, it would be funny. Young people that I know in their 20's and 30's like to blame the oil companies for what's wrong with the planet. I've heard that Big Oil only cares about making money and they Government needs to stop giving them tax breaks because they make too much money.

Then when the government restricts Big Oil, and the price of oil shoots up, those same people get even more upset that gasoline costs more and the Oil Companies are making even bigger profits. The biggest supporter of the Green Movement is Big Oil.

The more restriction put on producing oil in the US, the more money they make on oil.

 

[troverman]

...I wonder how much pollution is created making DEF, the containers for it, hauling it, and disposal of the containers. Must be factored in?

Keep in mind DEF reduces oxides of nitrogen, while the DPF filters particulate matter. Of the two, I'd keep DEF. Although it can have faults like the heaters fail in the tanks, it has zero effect on how your engine runs or how long it lives. The DPF, on the other hand, if it plugs...your engine doesn't run. When regens happen and diesel is injected into the cylinder at the top of the exhaust stroke and through the turbo...I'd say it has an adverse effect on longevity. It also makes little sense to burn extra fuel in order to be cleaner, which is what a regen does.

 

[aircommuter]

Yes of course and if for no other reasons they have to refine more oil and transport more fuel. But those items are conveniently never mentioned. How do you promote your agenda. Tell what sounds good, don’t mention all the facts, and answer questions with a question or change the subject. With that method you can’t go wrong.

 

[troverman]

I always said the same thing about the VW diesel TDI cars. When the EPA was made to look like a fool because the VW's were cheating on NOx emissions, they came down on VW like a ton of bricks to set an example. 90% of all VW TDI owners traded their car for a gas model which literally got 15-20mpg less. Did anyone do a cost-benefit analysis to see if pollution was really reduced by switching people into vehicles which burned more fuel? Of course not. The loss of those TDI's was a darn shame...nice cars to drive, and 50+ mpg highway all day.

 

[JCoastie]

Yet they say nothing about the rubber dust from tires as you drive down the highway,

Oh, it's coming ....

Don’t Tread On Me: Washington State Coming For Your Tires

Washington state is mulling a bill that would allow bureaucrats to ban the sale of certain tires if they fail to meet fuel efficiency standards.

dailycaller.com

SmartWay Verified List for Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) New and Retread Tire Technologies | US EPA

The table below shows low rolling resistance tires that are SmartWay verified when used on class 8, line-haul tractor trailers.

www.epa.gov

 

[aircommuter]

Almost all the Diesel engine manufacturers have been fined at some point. But the money was never refunded to the buyers! Why not? It’s just another way to tax the public and fool a portion of the public at the same time. Have you ever read the article about what California did with their money from the fines? It’s hilarious.

https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article283999928.html