Oil & Fuel L2502 smokes really bad at cold start

[LouNY]

The 25 HP CK is the same basic engine of the older 30-35 hp Kioti's. Supposedly a turn of the 2610/2620 fuel screw is worth 10 hp. That tractor was turned up not quite a full turn and it has considerably more power then my 2620 does according to the owner they were comparable before turning the screw. So yes it was a side effect of turning up the fuel.

 

[RjCorazza]

Sorry you're having a difficult time with this tractor delivery. My last new Kubota was delivered with a few issues, but not quite at the level you are experiencing. Hopefully the 3 point lift issue will be ironed out to your satisfaction.

 

[5030]

I thought that all pre emissions tractors smoked on cold startup? My old JD tractor bought new in 2000 always smoked upon a cold start.

Both my M's do ad always have until the bores get warm, even in the summer. Maybe 10 seconds max. They both have combustion rattle as well, just like a CAT does.

 

[5030]

The 25 HP CK is the same basic engine of the older 30-35 hp Kioti's. Supposedly a turn of the 2610/2620 fuel screw is worth 10 hp. That tractor was turned up not quite a full turn and it has considerably more power then my 2620 does according to the owner they were comparable before turning the screw. So yes it was a side effect of turning up the fuel.

Seat of the drawers don't really work. What does is a PTO dyno.

 

[lilranch2001]

At first I assumed you dropped a load in the “ seat of your drawers”!

 

[ruffdog]

Yes I am seeing that now. The good news the fix seems to be fairly simple. They put shimms under the fuel injectors. Kubota canada has a service bulletin regarding this. The Dealship found it and installed it in the second tractor the dealership brought me. This one smoked before installing the shimms but after the shim install there was no smoke. It cold started perfectly. A 5 or 10 second smoke which is fine.

I was always under the impression that the shimming was done under the fuel injection pump. That would change the injection timing because you are changing the distance the plungers are from the cam lobes. With less shims you advance the timing.

 

[LouNY]

Seat of the drawers don't really work. What does is a PTO dyno.

PTO dyno will give numbers and are repeatable tests, when using the same dyno and the same ambient conditions.
These little tractor of 20-30 hp a 5 hp increase is quite noticeable. When you are talking 100+ Hp tractors 5 hp isn't that noticeable and often can't be confirmed on a dyno as many of them will have less then a 5% repeatability.

Seat of the pants on hills can be very definitive also, the attainable speed on an upgrade with a lower powered tractors can be very significant. If you have insufficient hp to pull a hill in your highest gear power increases can easily be gauged.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

To the OP,

I would have been much less worried about the smoke on cold start up, but that's just me. As long as it clears up as the engine warms up, it's fine.

I'm very surprised you don't have a block heater installed by your dealer on EVERY tractor that goes out his door, based on your location.

"YES", a block heater would have helped your "smoke on cold start" issue immediately.

I can't believe the dealer didn't do it automatically, but he certainly should have. He also should have strongly suggested it the first time you mentioned the "issue" to him. Just amazes me that it didn't happen.

There is a substantial difference in the way my tractor starts in the cold** depending on if I use the block heater or not. If I do, it will only "smoke" for about 10-20 seconds before it blows clear, and that's without revving the engine or anything else. Just letting it idle upon startup. If I don't use the block heater, it will "smoke" for several minutes before it starts to blow clear. The difference is night and day.

My tractor is also direct mechanical injection, same as yours. I also no longer have a DPF on it, so it runs the exhaust unfiltered, which means you see all the smoke and it's not trapped by the exhaust filter, which will often HIDE such problems from the operator (doesn't apply in your case, but some users report "smoking" only after removing exhaust filters).

Also, are you treating your fuel? You should be. Treat it per the bottle instructions for the coldest temp you're likely to see during your winter season, and you'll be fine. I use Power Service (white bottle), but there are other brands also.

Same goes for the fluids you use. Engine oil, trans oil and hydraulic fluids. Use the fluids that are rated for at least the coldest temps you are likely to ever see in your area in winter. I'm using all synthetics in my tractor to get the full temperature range I need for my local area (from +105 F to -45 F is my actual ambient temp range).

GENERAL STATEMENTS AHEAD!

***Definition of "COLD" can vary wildly (and sometimes rather comically) on these forums. I see that your location is "Nova Scotia". I suspect your temps average run is slightly warmer than ours here, based on the observation that you are surrounded by a lot of water. Anyhow, once temps start getting below freezing, that's when you should think about things like treating fuel and plugging in block heaters (run the heater(s) on a timer, NOT 24/7). It will help matters even while it's still that warm (yes, I'm saying "below freezing" is still warm). Once we get "real" winter here, our temps get down to -30 to -40F (this winter has been goofy so far-to warm). I don't think you get quite that cold, but that's an assumption I'm making at this point.

***"Temperature" should ALWAYS be listed at "ambient" temps, and NOT any "windchill" bullcrap, when talking about equipment like tractors. Tractors don't give two flying SHIZZNITS on what "wind chill" is. I wish folks would ignore the fake windchill propaganda completely when talking about winter temps and tractor use.

GENERAL STATEMENTS OVER.

 

[sd455dan]

I was always under the impression that the shimming was done under the fuel injection pump. That would change the injection timing because you are changing the distance the plungers are from the cam lobes. With less shims you advance the timing.

Some mechanical Injectors can have the ability to have the spring shimmed which raises the injectors nozzle opening pressure.

 

[5030]

Neither of my M9's have block heaters. In fact none of my previous Kubota's had block heaters either. What glo-plugs are for. Besides, don't have electricity in the barn anyway. Even if below zero (f), 20 seconds on the plugs and they fire right up, but then I have good batteries as well and my glo plug bus bar is clean and bright. Don't need no stinking block heater, never have. Had both my M9's cranked up to 90 pto and yes, I cannot 'feel' any difference. Easy to do with a mechanically injected engine actually. Had Dennis do it at the dealership.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

RIF

Reading Is Fundamental.

 

[whitetiger]

Some are shipped dry some aren't. Yes I work for Kubota but at a dealer, part time delivering new tractors. Land Pride powered implements are all shipped dry however. On wet shipped units it's the dealers responsibility to check the fluid levels and top off as necessary.

As usual, you are spreading B.S. about things you know nothing about.
Kubota does not ship ANY units dry.
Landpride ships very few items dry.

A dealer is independent of Kubota, they do not work for them and neither do you. You work for the dealer only.

You should get your facts straight, before sounding off!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[whitetiger]

Actually my dealer only sells Kubota. Probably a blue paint stick is all they had.

In most cases, each Tech uses a different color paint pen.

 

[lilranch2001]

That would make a lot of sense

 

[whitetiger]

I believe the dealer installs the fluids. That’s not a Kubota issue. And they shouldn’t be delivering any machine that they haven’t checked out for full functionality. Sounds like at least 2 of your three issues are the fault of your dealer, not Kubota.

The tractors are shipped with the fluids in them, and the dealer checks and adds accordingly. The fluid levels are entirely on the dealer.
The dealer also installs the loader which when it is first cycled will use some of the oil, the unit then needs to be topped off.

The 3-point hitch not rising may very well be that the dealer has incorrectly plumbed the hoses to the loader valve, which would make it a dealer issue also.

 

[lilranch2001]

I never understood how any manufacturer would ship a Hydro unit with no fluid in it, any humidity could cause rusting on the carbon steel parts that would be within it

 

[whitetiger]

I never understood how any manufacturer would ship a Hydro unit with no fluid in it, any humidity could cause rusting on the carbon steel parts that would be within it

In over 40 years in this industry, I have never seen or heard of any being shipped dry.

 

[etpm]

Minor thread hijack:
Though not a tractor I once encountered a tool that was shipped dry and needed oil added. The tool was a device called a live center and these are used mainly in lathes. They have ball bearings in them. Anyway, back before the Soviet Union broke apart they were shipping precision machine tools and accessories. The live center in question came from a Soviet controlled Eastern Bloc country. In the box was a note stating that oil must be added because it was illegal for any petroleum products to be exported to Western countries. That was a real eye opener. They couldn't even ship less than a few CCs of oil to the West.
Eric

 

[Green Acres Homestead]

To the OP,

I would have been much less worried about the smoke on cold start up, but that's just me. As long as it clears up as the engine warms up, it's fine.

I'm very surprised you don't have a block heater installed by your dealer on EVERY tractor that goes out his door, based on your location.

"YES", a block heater would have helped your "smoke on cold start" issue immediately.

I can't believe the dealer didn't do it automatically, but he certainly should have. He also should have strongly suggested it the first time you mentioned the "issue" to him. Just amazes me that it didn't happen.

There is a substantial difference in the way my tractor starts in the cold** depending on if I use the block heater or not. If I do, it will only "smoke" for about 10-20 seconds before it blows clear, and that's without revving the engine or anything else. Just letting it idle upon startup. If I don't use the block heater, it will "smoke" for several minutes before it starts to blow clear. The difference is night and day.

My tractor is also direct mechanical injection, same as yours. I also no longer have a DPF on it, so it runs the exhaust unfiltered, which means you see all the smoke and it's not trapped by the exhaust filter, which will often HIDE such problems from the operator (doesn't apply in your case, but some users report "smoking" only after removing exhaust filters).

Also, are you treating your fuel? You should be. Treat it per the bottle instructions for the coldest temp you're likely to see during your winter season, and you'll be fine. I use Power Service (white bottle), but there are other brands also.

Same goes for the fluids you use. Engine oil, trans oil and hydraulic fluids. Use the fluids that are rated for at least the coldest temps you are likely to ever see in your area in winter. I'm using all synthetics in my tractor to get the full temperature range I need for my local area (from +105 F to -45 F is my actual ambient temp range).

GENERAL STATEMENTS AHEAD!

***Definition of "COLD" can vary wildly (and sometimes rather comically) on these forums. I see that your location is "Nova Scotia". I suspect your temps average run is slightly warmer than ours here, based on the observation that you are surrounded by a lot of water. Anyhow, once temps start getting below freezing, that's when you should think about things like treating fuel and plugging in block heaters (run the heater(s) on a timer, NOT 24/7). It will help matters even while it's still that warm (yes, I'm saying "below freezing" is still warm). Once we get "real" winter here, our temps get down to -30 to -40F (this winter has been goofy so far-to warm). I don't think you get quite that cold, but that's an assumption I'm making at this point.

***"Temperature" should ALWAYS be listed at "ambient" temps, and NOT any "windchill" bullcrap, when talking about equipment like tractors. Tractors don't give two flying SHIZZNITS on what "wind chill" is. I wish folks would ignore the fake windchill propaganda completely when talking about winter temps and tractor use.

GENERAL STATEMENTS OVER.

Got a block heater installed in the newest tractor that was delivered. Sad that this tractor was sent back to dealer because the lift arms wouldn’t go up.

Udt was over filled at the dealer. I am wondering if this could of created a problem with pressure and damaged part of the hydro system.

 

[Green Acres Homestead]

As usual, you are spreading B.S. about things you know nothing about.
Kubota does not ship ANY units dry.
Landpride ships very few items dry.

A dealer is independent of Kubota, they do not work for them and neither do you. You work for the dealer only.

You should get your facts straight, before sounding off!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s about time somebody told this guy off. Thanks.
Here inCape Breton we don’t have many guys like that. We are notorious for being tuff and most of those guys gets their asses kicked so they either smarten up or leave. Personally I think it’s a great system.