Dealers Not Accepting Some Brands on Trade

[mo1]

I’ve been noticing that some tractor dealers won’t accept TYM, LS, Branson, Bad Boy, or Mahindra tractors on trade. That may make it more difficult to sell/trade your tractor if you own one of those brands. Are these dealers being uppity about their brand or do you think they have legit business reasons for doing so? I’ve never seen a car dealer not accept another brand before so why do tractor dealers do it?

A dealer taking on a trade of a piece of equipment runs the risk of not making the amount of money they want to make in the time frame they want to make it. The dealers have a harder time judging demand on a lesser-known piece of equipment compared to one of the well-known brands since fewer of them are being bought and sold and thus that affects their ability to determine how much they should pay for it, how much they should expect to sell it for, and how long their money will be tied up in it. Also there is much more of an unknown for the dealer with regards to the cost and ability to fix any potential issues they may discover the unit has. The potential costs of those unknowns may outweigh the opportunity to make money in some dealers' eyes but not in others. There are both ends of the spectrum locally. The local Kubota dealer only deals with used equipment when it's an "oops I bought the wrong machine from you two weeks ago and want to trade it for another one" situation. The local New Holland dealer will take almost anything, including some things that are for parts only.

The current major brands are Deere, all of the stuff CNH sells or their former companies have ever sold, and Kubota. Massey-Ferguson, Yanmar, and LS are sort-of-second-tier brands around here. Massey-Ferguson's big issue is that the brand declined to a fraction of what they once were and dealer support is skimpy. Yanmar is known to have made Deere's compacts for them in the past and is known to still make Deere's compacts' engines but has sold few tractors under its own badging here in the U.S. and the dealer network is not very robust. LS has a better dealer network around here than Massey-Ferguson and Yanmar and at least the CNH dealers know they make CNH's compacts, but the brand itself is new and that relegates them to second tier. Deutz would be similar, quite a few farmers had a friend of a friend who had an old air-cooled one but they were never all that popular. Mahindra is a "maybe second tier" as they are popular globally and have a little presence here but less so than the other ones mentioned. The no-longer-made major brands like Oliver/White, Allis-Chalmers, and Minneapolis-Moline are basically treated like a used tractor of the same vintage from a current major brand. Everything else is considered a third-tier no-name budget machine. Some dealers do take consigned items, and letting you consign it with them is about all that they'd have to do with those third-tier units.

 

[DaBear3428]

A dealer taking on a trade of a piece of equipment runs the risk of not making the amount of money they want to make in the time frame they want to make it. The dealers have a harder time judging demand on a lesser-known piece of equipment compared to one of the well-known brands since fewer of them are being bought and sold and thus that affects their ability to determine how much they should pay for it, how much they should expect to sell it for, and how long their money will be tied up in it. Also there is much more of an unknown for the dealer with regards to the cost and ability to fix any potential issues they may discover the unit has. The potential costs of those unknowns may outweigh the opportunity to make money in some dealers' eyes but not in others. There are both ends of the spectrum locally. The local Kubota dealer only deals with used equipment when it's an "oops I bought the wrong machine from you two weeks ago and want to trade it for another one" situation. The local New Holland dealer will take almost anything, including some things that are for parts only.

The current major brands are Deere, all of the stuff CNH sells or their former companies have ever sold, and Kubota. Massey-Ferguson, Yanmar, and LS are sort-of-second-tier brands around here. Massey-Ferguson's big issue is that the brand declined to a fraction of what they once were and dealer support is skimpy. Yanmar is known to have made Deere's compacts for them in the past and is known to still make Deere's compacts' engines but has sold few tractors under its own badging here in the U.S. and the dealer network is not very robust. LS has a better dealer network around here than Massey-Ferguson and Yanmar and at least the CNH dealers know they make CNH's compacts, but the brand itself is new and that relegates them to second tier. Deutz would be similar, quite a few farmers had a friend of a friend who had an old air-cooled one but they were never all that popular. Mahindra is a "maybe second tier" as they are popular globally and have a little presence here but less so than the other ones mentioned. The no-longer-made major brands like Oliver/White, Allis-Chalmers, and Minneapolis-Moline are basically treated like a used tractor of the same vintage from a current major brand. Everything else is considered a third-tier no-name budget machine. Some dealers do take consigned items, and letting you consign it with them is about all that they'd have to do with those third-tier units.

around here Mahindra has more presence than LS, Koti, Bad boy, TYM, Branson. not on par with JD or Kubota, but closing in on NH and Massy. at the end of the day i plan to be buried by my Mahindra digging the hole so i do not care, the tractor was an investment in my happiness and has payed many dividends already.

Dealers that are not taking these tractors in trade are most likely cutting their own throats just like the auto industry did in the late 70s.

even if the mahindra brings 30% less in resale (not what is happening around here) I still come out ahead because the tractor was 30% less upfront for the same capabilities covered in green or orange paint.

parts have been cheaper also (not that i have bought that many parts).

 

[5030]

What is a “Bad Girl “ tractor?

I could be interested in one.

A *** changed Bad Boy...lol

 

[DaBear3428]

A *** changed Bad Boy...lol

carful, the the Rainbow coalition is watching you

 

[fidowanttobe]

I never, ever trade in. I always sell it myself and then deal on the replacement. Years ago I was dealing on a car and when I mentioned maybe a trade in, the price went up. Learned my lesson. I don't mind them making money, just don't take ALL of mine!

 

[5030]

I can easily see any dealer's hesitation in taking any of those on trade and not offering top dollar. The are in business to make a profit and nit sit on something they would have a hard time getting rid of and at auction they would take an even bigger hit. My dealer (Kubota and IH) would do the same thing. Of course he does collet old Kubota's and Internationals as a hobby and would sell me one for the right price but I don't want any. I like looking at them because he restores them as well, plus he has a nice shop with dedicated employees who do the work and knowing him like I do, I'm sure he compensates them well.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

I’ve never seen a car dealer not accept another brand before so why do tractor dealers do it?

I can tell you the view from an auto dealer.

We are not allowed to take Ford 6.0 or Ford 6.4 trucks on trade in. Here is what happens:

1) A guy wants to trade his Ford 6.0 and we're not allowed to keep those on our lot (not starting a brand war, but if you know, you know.)
2) So we have to look at auction results on similar 6.0s. And offer 20% less than those auction results to cover our time and our risk.
3) When we go back to the customer and offer him 20% less than auction results, he gets mad and storms out. So we lost the sale and a potential customer is mad.

Much easier to just say we can't take those in on trade.

 

[ruffdog]

I can tell you the view from an auto dealer.

We are not allowed to take Ford 6.0 or Ford 6.4 trucks on trade in. Here is what happens:

1) A guy wants to trade his Ford 6.0 and we're not allowed to keep those on our lot (not starting a brand war, but if you know, you know.)
2) So we have to look at auction results on similar 6.0s. And offer 20% less than those auction results to cover our time and our risk.
3) When we go back to the customer and offer him 20% less than auction results, he gets mad and storms out. So we lost the sale and a potential customer is mad.

Much easier to just say we can't take those in on trade.

Good point! I don't know why some people think dealers are obligated to take a questionable unknown product off of someone's hands just because they no longer want it. I have worked at dealers and have seen the junk people want to pawn off on them.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

CAUTION: Rant ahead

Here's the other problem with taking in trades from a dealer perspective:

@Tractorable finds a Massey 285EH that he likes. Dealer A gives him the price of $ 46,000 and offers @Tractorable $8000 for his Mahindra.

Dealer B has a Massey that is similar, but optioned a bit differently and hours are a bit different. He tells @Tractorable that "The other dealer is insulting you with a $8000 trade. We will offer you $10,000 because you are smart enough to know what you have." Dealer B offers their different, but similar tractor for $48,000 and a $10,000 trade.

If dealer B gets the sale, he benefits from manipulating the numbers and dealer A loses out. So dealer A begins to play the game next time so as not to lose the sale.

The best defense against such games? Keep your trade completely off the table until you finalize the price on the new tractor. Only after that, go ahead and ask about your trade.

 

[lilranch2001]

CAUTION: Rant ahead

Here's the other problem with taking in trades from a dealer perspective:

@Tractorable finds a Massey 285EH that he likes. Dealer A gives him the price of $ 46,000 and offers @Tractorable $8000 for his Mahindra.

Dealer B has a Massey that is similar, but optioned a bit differently and hours are a bit different. He tells @Tractorable that "The other dealer is insulting you with a $8000 trade. We will offer you $10,000 because you are smart enough to know what you have." Dealer B offers their different, but similar tractor for $48,000 and a $10,000 trade.

If dealer B gets the sale, he benefits from manipulating the numbers and dealer A loses out. So dealer A begins to play the game next time so as not to lose the sale.

The best defense against such games? Keep your trade completely off the table until you finalize the price on the new tractor. Only after that, go ahead and ask about your trade.

I never tell a dealer about trades until after a deal has been made.

That’s the only way you are going to get a honest appraisal of the deal, the salesman and the sales manager never likes it, but I’m not in it to make other people happy. I only want the best deal I can get for myself.

 

[mo1]

around here Mahindra has more presence than LS, Koti, Bad boy, TYM, Branson. not on par with JD or Kubota, but closing in on NH and Massy. at the end of the day i plan to be buried by my Mahindra digging the hole so i do not care, the tractor was an investment in my happiness and has payed many dividends already.

Dealers that are not taking these tractors in trade are most likely cutting their own throats just like the auto industry did in the late 70s.

even if the mahindra brings 30% less in resale (not what is happening around here) I still come out ahead because the tractor was 30% less upfront for the same capabilities covered in green or orange paint.

parts have been cheaper also (not that i have bought that many parts).

Foreign tractors today are a lot different of an issue than foreign cars in the 1970s.

The domestic auto industry in the 1970s suffered because the various government emissions regulations introduced in that time period with little forewarning, two fuel crises, and the poor Malaise Era economy resulted in the products the domestic automakers were currently selling becoming unappealing in short order, before they could retool to make the far different vehicles that would sell well. The large, comfortable, somewhat pricey cars with powerful V8 engines that sold well when high-octane leaded fuel was cheap became slow, thirsty, expensive slugs when their engines were detuned to run on unleaded and choked with first-generation emissions equipment. Their attempts to quick-and-dirty cut costs by cutting corners in production and the crude downsizing of existing models fell flat as well. The foreign companies selling cheap little four-banger crackerboxes (other than the VW Beetle) didn't sell too many here until then, and then when all of the above hit, they suddenly were the ones that were selling what the market wanted at that minute and did well. However, the domestic industry (except Chrysler which infamously went bankrupt) recovered in the '80s once they were able to retool and build truly new models, got the bugs out of the first generation of emissions equipment and first-generation downsized models, and the economy improved to where people could afford something a little nicer than the little imported crackerboxes.

Recently the U.S. ag equipment market has had to weather a lot of the same storms the automotive industry did in the 1970s. We've had massive government emissions edicts and fuel changes come down the pike with ULSD and Tier 4 about a decade ago. We've had big jumps in the price of fuel as well. However, the major players in the U.S. ag equipment market (only one of which, Deere, is an American company, CNH is Italian and Kubota is Japanese) have weathered it well. There wasn't (isn't) that opening for somebody to come in and sell something significantly different to the market and take it over that there was in the 1970s auto market. Simply making a cheaper machine and selling it for somewhat less does have a market, but it isn't dramatic.

 

[DaBear3428]

I never tell a dealer about trades until after a deal has been made.

That’s the only way you are going to get a honest appraisal of the deal, the salesman and the sales manager never likes it, but I’m not in it to make other people happy. I only want the best deal I can get for myself.

anyone that thinks a dealer is your best friend is kidding themselves a dealer (cars, tractors, boats tiddlywinks etc) is out to put money in their pocket, and some times policies are put in place that are short sighted in order to max out profit too day and to heck with tomorrow (like the one price BS) those policies tend to make a good profit until enough people catch on and start to take their $$s elsewhere, i have been told by several car dealers that the new norm is for the customer to order the new vehicle and that the days of inventory sitting on the car lot are over. that will last only until the dealer down the street figures out that hey i can sell 2X the number of cars if i have some sitting ready to go.
when the tractor dealers start hurting for sales they they will reconsider the policies, assuming that there is some competition (if there is no competition that is another issue).

 

[DaBear3428]

Foreign tractors today are a lot different of an issue than foreign cars in the 1970s.

The domestic auto industry in the 1970s suffered because the various government emissions regulations introduced in that time period with little forewarning, two fuel crises, and the poor Malaise Era economy resulted in the products the domestic automakers were currently selling becoming unappealing in short order, before they could retool to make the far different vehicles that would sell well. The large, comfortable, somewhat pricey cars with powerful V8 engines that sold well when high-octane leaded fuel was cheap became slow, thirsty, expensive slugs when their engines were detuned to run on unleaded and choked with first-generation emissions equipment. Their attempts to quick-and-dirty cut costs by cutting corners in production and the crude downsizing of existing models fell flat as well. The foreign companies selling cheap little four-banger crackerboxes (other than the VW Beetle) didn't sell too many here until then, and then when all of the above hit, they suddenly were the ones that were selling what the market wanted at that minute and did well. However, the domestic industry (except Chrysler which infamously went bankrupt) recovered in the '80s once they were able to retool and build truly new models, got the bugs out of the first generation of emissions equipment and first-generation downsized models, and the economy improved to where people could afford something a little nicer than the little imported crackerboxes.

Recently the U.S. ag equipment market has had to weather a lot of the same storms the automotive industry did in the 1970s. We've had massive government emissions edicts and fuel changes come down the pike with ULSD and Tier 4 about a decade ago. We've had big jumps in the price of fuel as well. However, the major players in the U.S. ag equipment market (only one of which, Deere, is an American company, CNH is Italian and Kubota is Japanese) have weathered it well. There wasn't (isn't) that opening for somebody to come in and sell something significantly different to the market and take it over that there was in the 1970s auto market. Simply making a cheaper machine and selling it for somewhat less does have a market, but it isn't dramatic.

we agree on a lot of that but the parallel is that the 70s auto industry also had there heads in the sand and did not catch on that the cars they had disdain for started having appeal to the changing us market (for various reasons). to day i see the same attitude in JD and Kubota and i fully expect them to wake up to the same reality ie that there product is not worth the inflated cost over the competition or there attitude towards the customer (ie it is our way or the highway).
I disagree on the point that there is not room for competition to come in and sell something better for a better price (there always is in the free market), i think we are starting to see that now with the growth of the 2nd tier tractor manufacturers that are selling very good tractors at better prices. the same thing recently happened to Harley Davidson.

also the foreign auto manufacturers of the 70s had to deal with the exact same changing regulations and did so more successfully

i own several pieces of JD, IH and Ford/NH equipment so it is not like im down on any of them but i do observe trends and this is what i'm seeing.

i just went back and confirmed my data, when i was searching for current tractor i sent my list of requirements out to all of the likely suspects and got hard quotes among them was JD who i had an established relationship with the parts department, they quoted a 4052M which met my specifications but was less than (about 20% in the things that matter to me) the specs for the Mahindra 5145 that i bought and was 30% more expensive.
Kubota was even worse and when I went back to discuss the quote with JD and Kubota the attitude was "it is what it is" so ok i bought the Mahindra.

I am fully aware that this is my experience and someone else may have a different one but i keep hearing the same from others.

 

[Goose1776]

CAUTION: Rant ahead

Here's the other problem with taking in trades from a dealer perspective:

@Tractorable finds a Massey 285EH that he likes. Dealer A gives him the price of $ 46,000 and offers @Tractorable $8000 for his Mahindra.

Dealer B has a Massey that is similar, but optioned a bit differently and hours are a bit different. He tells @Tractorable that "The other dealer is insulting you with a $8000 trade. We will offer you $10,000 because you are smart enough to know what you have." Dealer B offers their different, but similar tractor for $48,000 and a $10,000 trade.

If dealer B gets the sale, he benefits from manipulating the numbers and dealer A loses out. So dealer A begins to play the game next time so as not to lose the sale.

The best defense against such games? Keep your trade completely off the table until you finalize the price on the new tractor. Only after that, go ahead and ask about your trade.

As rants go..
this one was short and made good sense.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

As rants go..
this one was short and made good sense.

Thank you for your kind words.

Savor the flavor, because soon I'll be back to my ornery old self!

 

[Jstpssng]

I never tell a dealer about trades until after a deal has been made.

That’s the only way you are going to get a honest appraisal of the deal, the salesman and the sales manager never likes it, but I’m not in it to make other people happy. I only want the best deal I can get for myself.

If they didn't play the games that they do, you could be more upfront about what you want to do.

 

[lilranch2001]

If they didn't play the games that they do, you could be more upfront about what you want to do.

Exactly why???

 

[Code54]

Around us, the non-Kubota/Deere/MF just don't get the money used. They may be "30% less" new but often bring 50% less used. The dealers will take them for a lowball offer due to parts concerns and the fear they may not get close to what they need out of them. The other brands don't have the name recognition that Kubota/Deere/MF has and you hear of a lot complaints about the overall quality, merited or not, they don't have a good local reputation.

 

[arrow]

My, the stories being told here.
I work at a Mahindra dealership.
We take Mahindra trades when available almost all of the time.
They do not interfere w new tractor sales but have a niche if a customer wants certain amenities at a reduced price.
Why in heavens name would you not want to gain another customer?

if we don't accept off brands, it's because we don't carry an inventory of parts necessary to fully support the sale nor do we have the expertise in the idiosyncrasies of variated brands as it applies to service. As is we have to stock parts for India made Mahindra's, South Korea made Mahindra's (Tym) and japanese made mahindras (Mitsu)

Why would you give someone a colonoscopy if you're a foot doctor?
You would have to go to Home Depot and buy some tubing that's ***** proof, A small flash light to attach to the tube and oh yes, pinchers if you find any coins the patient has swallowed.

What if you didn't buy enough tubing for those long intestinal types?
It can run into money.

 

[arrow]

I've had three dealers in the last 6 months say they won't take my 770 hour Mahindra in trade and I thought it was because it needs seals replaced which is a labor intensive job. Then I asked the owner of the Mahindra dealer that sold it to me if they'd repair it and take it back in to sell on consignment (meaning I would own it until it sold, but they'd get a percentage for selling). They weren't interested saying tractor sales were slowing. Oh, and the service department still hasn't my calls about repairing it even after speaking with the owner.

Two of the Kubota dealers said they have trouble getting parts for Mahindra. The third dealer wasn't a Kubota dealer, but said they have trouble reselling Mahindras.

Massey Ferguson used to have a good presence here in rural Middle Tennessee, but their dealer network has really dried up compared to what they once were. A friend needs the clutch replaced in his MF and can't find anyone to do it nearby.

You're not being treated right by your Mahindra dealers for some reason.
That they won't fix your tractor is baffling unless they no longer have a mechanic to put on it.
You would not be going through this if you were our customer. This is nuts to me.