Tanks, Rental, Customer, Throughbreed

[paulsharvey]

I just got a 3 in 1 Vevor Mig/Tig/Stick welder, and kinda want to try some Tig. I need some 100% Argon; and have thought about couple options. 1: Order full tank online, looks like 80cf is approx $300 or 125cf is about $350; Buy an empty online, about $50-100 less then above and swap locally; buy a throughbreed tank from TSC, about $400, and expensive refills; get quotes of purchase or rental from Airgas.

Question; and I have looked, but not dug too deep; How does Thoughbreed exchange work? Does it have to be their tank? Do you have an account? Could you swap another tank to them if it's current hydro; how about out of date? Can a take an old tank, paint it blue, and swap? Heck, is it like Rhino gas, and any old tank?

I specifically read they swap only like size for like size.

Can you swap an O2 bottle for Argon or Co2/AR blend?

I have two very old O2 bottles, both partially full; like a 250cf and 300cf; along with 2 80cf sized acetylene tanks; just sitting around, but they are almost 25 years out if date.

 

[paulsharvey]

Found the Gaspony employee training PDF; looks like they 'should' take owner tanks, including out of date; if in good condition, with good DOT stickers; IF they stock that tank size, and had a cap, and some other requirements.

Now; does the 18 year old kid at TSC know any of this? Can I sneak a odd size in? I might have to order a Amazon O2 sticker for the smaller of those old O2 tanks, and try it out. Just cause their manual says they can take owner, outside tanks, with bad hydro, and charge for the retest; does that mean they actually will?

 

[WranglerX]

Tractor Supply is not best solution, I found dealing with local welding supplier (Linde) was better option...

Welding Supplies | Linde Gas & Equipment Inc - formerly Praxair

Shop for welding supplies at Linde Gas & Equipment. We stock popular brands like Lincoln Electric, Miller, and ESAB. Order for delivery or pickup.

www.lindedirect.com

 

[5030]

I own all my bottles outright and get them filled at Air Gas as required but then I always have more than one on hand. I never exchange and a cert is not on a label, it's stamped into the metal.

 

[paulsharvey]

I own all my bottles outright and get them filled at Air Gas as required but then I always have more than one on hand. I never exchange and a cert is not on a label, it's stamped into the metal.

That's not what I meant; their pamphlet says it has to have the sticker intact. It says they charge for out of cert date recertification.

I just checked the old bottles; and unfortunately, they both have Linde stamped on neck; so probably a no go.... unless some bondo and paint made those letters go away . Mostly joking, but I haven't ruled it out. Dang bottles are crazy expensive.

I didn't see specifically what their policy of shaping O2 bottles for another type of gas was.

I know all this seems silly; but I don't want to drop $400-500 on something I just want to try. Was talking to a local gas company welder at work, and he told me local rental bottles have gotten ridiculous, where it's nearly purchase price per year for rental.

 

[WranglerX]

That's not what I meant; their pamphlet says it has to have the sticker intact. It says they charge for out of cert date recertification.

I just checked the old bottles; and unfortunately, they both have Linde stamped on neck; so probably a no go.... unless some bondo and paint made those letters go away . Mostly joking, but I haven't ruled it out. Dang bottles are crazy expensive.

I didn't see specifically what their policy of shaping O2 bottles for another type of gas was.

I know all this seems silly; but I don't want to drop $400-500 on something I just want to try. Was talking to a local gas company welder at work, and he told me local rental bottles have gotten ridiculous, where it's nearly purchase price per year for rental.

Never have had my gas supplier check the neck ring.... Supposedly a blank neck ring is "customer" owned, but have only seen one (the one I have now) , I just lay my money on counter and they get empty out of PU and replace it with full.... I guess each retail purveyor of compressed gas may have different protocols regarding neck rings.... But then again one supplier I don't use has all his bottles painted blue and has shop name stensiled on each bottle...

 

[aczlan]

Just had a out of date tank hydro tested ($34), valve changed ($32.5) and 50# of CO2 installed ($40).
Would have been about $30 more without a established account (ran it through the account for work and paid when I picked it up).

Aaron Z

 

[firemanmike69]

Check your local welding shops for the lease price for an 80cuft tank. I own my o2 and co2 tanks but lease the argon and it costs $55/yr for a 120cuft tank

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I buy and sell used welding equipment using Craig's List to buy and sell plus buying at auctions and yard sales. Air Gas is owned by Linde who has now changed the name of their Praxair stores to Linde. I almost exclusively use a local welding supplier that has their own refill plant. My supplier will swap any high-pressure gas cylinder for any other, O2 for Argon. Air Gas here will not swap but Praxair did. Haven't been to the old Praxair store since the name change. Both Air Gas and Praxair charge extra for out-of-date cylinders when exchanging but my supplier does not.

My market on used cylinders indicates the 80-120 CF cylinder sre the most sought after by small time users. Unit cost for refills is not linear; larger the cylinder, lower the unit cost. A 120 CF Argon here is $80 plus tax. All refills are on an exchange basis as no vendor has refill capability at the retail outlets.

For you that MIG/TIG weld mild steel and stainless steel consider using CO2 as shielding gas. Much, much cheaper.

I get used cylinders all the time for well less than 50% of retail for a new one. In this area you can only by a new cylinder aa a filled exchange unit from the stock. You never see the new one as it goes in the empty stack.

O2 gas use is on the way out so a lot of high-pressure cylinders will get cheaper as they become used only for shielding gasses and other industrial uses such as helium and hydrogen.

I think within 10 years acetylene will be replaced with other fuel gases for brazing and soldering and is almost dead for steel welding as SMAW, MIG, and TIG processes take over. O/A cutting of steel is pretty much replaced by Plasma processes. Just exchanged a 75 CF acetylene cylinder and it cost $75.

My pipefitters union no longer teaches O/A welding and cutting to apprentices. Back in the old days we O/A butt welded up to 2" schedule 80 steel pipe in one pass but today all that is done using socket weld fittings and 3 passes by arc with the attendant cleaning of all three passes. 3+ times the labor cost, go figure.

Ron

 

[ultrarunner]

I had an in with a local company that had their own gas plant and hydro.

I would pick up cylinders and sell.

Plant sold off and exported and that ended a good side hustle.

I still fill my small Oxygen by cascading from other tanks.

Each week I buy Oxygen, Nitrogen, CO2, Nitrous Oxide and Air… the E tanks the most expensive way for me to buy so only for backup.

The jobber I use sells for less delivered than Prax where he buys in bulk to resell.

Seen Oxygen Cylinders still in service from 1920’s and 1930’s with some Linde from the era having the **** stamp… if only they could talk!

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I had an in with a local company that had their own gas plant and hydro.

I would pick up cylinders and sell.

Plant sold off and exported and that ended a good side hustle.

I still fill my small Oxygen by cascading from other tanks.

Each week I buy Oxygen, Nitrogen, CO2, Nitrous Oxide and Air… the E tanks the most expensive way for me to buy so only for backup.

The jobber I use sells for less delivered than Prax where he buys in bulk to resell.

Seen Oxygen Cylinders still in service from 1920’s and 1930’s with some Linde from the era having the **** stamp… if only they could talk!

That would be interesting. During and before WWII Linde was headquartered in France as Liquide Aire, they were world- wide. They are now a US corporation having gone through several acquisitions and reforming over the years. All Praxair stores are now renamed Linde. They own Air Gas but have not seen a name change yet. I use Pacific/Central Welding Supply for my retirement gig of buying and selling used welding equipment mentioned previously.

Ron

 

[ultrarunner]

Mine was Pacific Oxygen Company based in Oakland CA with several California locations.

Here is one of the oldest I’ve come across in the Hospital medgas room… 1917… WWI era and still in use 105 years later for medical oxygen

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I had an in with a local company that had their own gas plant and hydro.

I would pick up cylinders and sell.

Plant sold off and exported and that ended a good side hustle.

I still fill my small Oxygen by cascading from other tanks.

Each week I buy Oxygen, Nitrogen, CO2, Nitrous Oxide and Air… the E tanks the most expensive way for me to buy so only for backup.

The jobber I use sells for less delivered than Prax where he buys in bulk to resell.

Seen Oxygen Cylinders still in service from 1920’s and 1930’s with some Linde from the era having the **** stamp… if only they could talk!

Just thought of something relative to your hospital job. Always wondered if those large O2 storage tanks were LOX or O2 gas only. The ones at military air bases are LOX at gas pressure.

Ron

 

[ultrarunner]

These are standard cylinders at the satellite clinic…

Liquid Oxygen at the main hospital but the volume at the clinic isn’t cost effective for Liquid oxygen.

 

[paulsharvey]

Was out checking out the 2 O2 tanks; both 'did' have raised Linde-Union Carbide on the neck rings. The O2 sticker is in good condition on the smaller tank. I went ahead and filed off the raised letters on that tank and will touch it up with rattle can green before trying swap.

These 4 tanks came from wife's grandads garage, and he's been dead for like 20 years; and his last few years, he wasn't real mobile; so probably last filled atleast 25 years ago.

There really doesn't seem to be a consistent policy, even in the same parent company, between each gas supplier. Figure, nothing to lose, the tanks are sitting out there not doing anything now. I do have a cutting torch set up; but it's ancient; hoses leak; regulators leak; and I just don't see much need for Oxy/Ace cutting. Figure if a grinder and cut offs won't do it; plasma cutters have gotten so cheap, oxy isn't worth it for hobby stuff.

Once touched up, will see is TSC will exchange. If I find I use it a lot; I can always switch to regular gas supplier.

Just for safety guys; no I did not grind a half full Oxy bottle; hand file; 20 minutes, and some sweet.

 

[paulsharvey]

Follow up question; and I think I found answer; but there is conflicting info: Tig=flow meter (can use regulator, but common wisdom is not as good); Mig=normally regulator; if I want to do both, I should get a flow meter, right. I've seen guys saying there isn't an issue using flow meters for Mig, right?

 

[ultrarunner]

Pacific Oxygen used magnaflux to read filed cylinder rings…

I was surprised how the filings lined up to readable letters.

Companies come and go through mergers and going out of business…

I got a complete small set that was put out for bulky collection… tanks, cart, regulators, etc… one guage damaged from tipping over on sidewalk…

I guess if push comes to shove my
Model T had and acetylene generator on the running board.

 

[5030]

Like I said, I own all my bottles and every one has my company name on them and I have them filled, never exchange. I really dislike banged up bottles, makes my shop look bad...lol Still use a gas axe regularly, in fact I learned to weld with a gas axe and coat hangers for filler rod. Good primer for TIG far as I'm concerned. Lucky to have a compressor plant close by.

 

[5030]

I should get a flow meter, right. I've seen guys saying there isn't an issue using flow meters for Mig, right?

I use flow meters (vertical scale) for everything but OA. Easier to read and adjust.

 

[paulsharvey]

Checked, last Hydro was 1985. The small cylinder is approx 51-52" tall with the cap on, and just shy of 8" diameter. The worse shape tank is about 56-57" tall and roughly 9.25" diameter, dated 8-76+, and still partially full... "Propoert of National Cylinder.