Any Excavation Professionals Feel Like Giving Advice?

[Rockbadchild]

304 is a mixed stone specification so there is no size to call out

no size ?? every type of aggregate is a mixture of different size and can be described by it … from 2” to 0 or from 3/4 inch to 1/4 inch … etcetera

 

[rScotty]

I've never seen it move unless some digs it up. How does it move with 4" +rock on top??

Probably it moves up in the same way that any size rocks move to the surface. It's called frost-jacking. Happens faster in some climates than others.

 

[ning]

Where in "grade 8" for bolts does it give any notion about what's graded? is it 1.6x bigger? better? than grade 5? in what way?

It doesn't need to tell you. It's a specification and you either know it's what you need or you look it up.

How viscous is SAE10W-40?

How big is 304 gravel?

 

[rScotty]

Where in "grade 8" for bolts does it give any notion about what's graded? is it 1.6x bigger? better? than grade 5? in what way?

It doesn't need to tell you. It's a specification and you either know it's what you need or you look it up.

How viscous is SAE10W-40?

How big is 304 gravel?

I'm not sure what you are trying to learn from the guy. Aren't most specs based on some quality that needs to exist in the final product? Looking at the 304 spec online today, it's interesting that the size, shape, crush, fines or not, and even the water resistance in the 304 specs varies with what what substrate is used to make the 304 out of. So for that material I get the impression that it is designed to be an intermediate compaction layer material rather than a topping.

For the top dressing layer - even on a parking lot - I'd be a bit more picky about the material and probably go down to the yard and pick it out instead of going by some commercial spec.
I recall one church parking lot that used small river rock - washed and not crushed, so it had no fines. It was beautiful but hard to walk on and never would settle down. I think that a cure for that would be to top dress with some small crusher run w/fines.

Back before covid I was following a couple of apt. house parking lots that put in chopped up recycled asphalt. So far I'm unimpressed and am curious how they plan to stabilize that stuff.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, whatever 304 is; the way this works, is, you, as a material producer, apply to get your material approved with the state. Your rock mine wants to be FDOT. you jump through the hops, do sampling, testing, they do sampling and testing, at regular intervals, and your material is from an approved pit.

Now, here's the truth, let's take XYZ imaginary pit in Ocala FL. They produce fantastic FDOT approved material, great. You, as a homeowner or contractor probably will Not use that same material. The added cost if FDOT approval, means that pile of rock costs more.
Now, there is probably 3 or 4 piles;
1 is FDOT approved, costs the most; has a pit proctor, and is excellent material for its intended purpose
2 is for major commercial/County contract work. it's pretty much the same as pile 1, but hadn't been through the same testing, and is slightly cheaper; contractors testing company will sample onsite to get LBR, proctor, % passing the 200 sieve, ect
3 is fairly ok; its not bad material, but it has more fat clays, chirt/flint, maybe a softer rock, it works, but would not meet requirements of 1 or 2, and this is probably what the Vast majority of contractors that care about doing an OK job buy; the GC or owners rep doesn't have a spec for the rock but 10" limerock base, or 304 whatever, or ABC, who cares; this will fit the bill,
4 is sold to home owners and shady contactors; its probably 60% overburden, trash, mixed with the trash material. You as a guy that doesn't know better, This is what your buying... Nearly anything or anyone who isn't going to pay to test the material is using this. This sounds bad; but is exactly what they guy who wants a 1200ft stabalized road on a dairy farm needs, or a logging access, ect.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but thus talk about spec only matters if that material is held to the spec.

 

[Rockbadchild]

ho yes just google it, super clear, its standardized across the industry...

 

[paulsharvey]

I attached screen shots showing the approved FDOT optional base groups, and sub standard base groups. Notice there isn't #57, #8, #83, ect.


And maybe back to the OPs question; the reason it's called OBG, Optional Base Group, is typically, plans will call for say, OBG 9, and it's the Contractors choice of which material to use, as long as it meets FDOT Spec and thickness is defined by the chart above. So contractor A might use 10" of Limerock LBR100 and contractor B will use 6" Asphalt B-12.5; but the materials are considered Equal, and the state would pay the same for either.

Keep in mind, the way this generally works; the requirements are basically specced out, but you would Never dictate Means/Methods.

 

[LD1]

Thats not the case around here. I can buy the same limestone that the state or county uses. They dont have separate piles. There is no "homeowner or shady contractor" pile.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Thats not the case around here. I can buy the same limestone that the state or county uses. They dont have separate piles. There is no "homeowner or shady contractor" pile.

yeah seem weird like statement but out here we have some quarries that even if they are crush to speck it wont pass ministry standard and can't be used for certain application like cement mixing or asphalt mixing because of their rock type... I believe its the silt content but not sure, so it will be sold for cheaper.

edit: I should precise that we have a very think over burden and the outcrop are rare so we take what we get

 

[ovrszd]

304 is a mixed stone specification so there is no size to call out

Every crushed gravel has a stone specification with size to call out. Every one.

 

[ovrszd]

Thats not the case around here. I can buy the same limestone that the state or county uses. They dont have separate piles. There is no "homeowner or shady contractor" pile.

Nor here.

 

[paulsharvey]

Thats not the case around here. I can buy the same limestone that the state or county uses. They dont have separate piles. There is no "homeowner or shady contractor" pile.

I'm not saying you Can't, but if you don't ask, and don't pay the premium, many of the mines sell basically cull material. Testing is expensive.

 

[LD1]

I'm not saying you Can't, but if you don't ask, and don't pay the premium, many of the mines sell basically cull material. Testing is expensive.

Crushed limestone is crushed limestone. I dont need expensive testing to tell me its freaking limestone.

Not sure what you mean by "basically cull material".

If I order a load of #57 crushed limestone for my driveway....and any one of the 4 or 5 quarries around me....it is the EXACT SAME PILE they sell to the counties, states, and municipalities if they need the same size stone

 

[LD1]

I would like to compile of list of the different aggregate sizing/grading in the different parts of this country. So those that have dealt with local quarries in your states.....and know the "lingo" for your area....please share the info so I can populate a spreadsheet to post later

Stone/Aggregate Sizing and terminology in your state

Prompted by another thread.....And numerous times on here people talk about doing driveway work....I was wanting to compile a spreadsheet for my own curiosity (and maybe it could be made a sticky here somewhere).....of the different stone grades/sizes in your state. My goal is to get all 50...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[rScotty]

Crushed limestone is crushed limestone. I dont need expensive testing to tell me its freaking limestone.

Not sure what you mean by "basically cull material".

If I order a load of #57 crushed limestone for my driveway....and any one of the 4 or 5 quarries around me....it is the EXACT SAME PILE they sell to the counties, states, and municipalities if they need the same size stone

It's the same story: the USA is a large country. Not everywhere does things the same. Limestone is rare or nonexistant in our state. We have granite and sandstone... some shale. Here, quarries sell to the resellers who make up the various piles of fill. Go to any yard and there are dozens of different mixes made from different base material, processing, clay content, fines, and sweepings. Each seller has different mixes and that is where every contractor buys material.

A mix should be the same from one seller to the next - but it is often not even close. Plus the sellers are always willing to sell from one pile and ship junk material to the unwary. Fill is expensive and scams are everywhere. Anything larger than a single homeowner project always has someone checking material before it is unloaded.

Apparently that isn't the way it is done in Ohio. But it is common elsewhere.

Last year I went to several yards before deciding on a few truckloads of screened and mixed garden soil - chosing one from many different sample piles with tested analysis. Price was $1500/load, and a load is 11 to 15 tons. When I got to the site the next day, "my yard" had sold the my ticket to another yard and their drivers had just dumped 20 tons of pit run clay. That is typical. My bad; I know how they do business.
rScotty

 

[paulsharvey]

I would like to eventually hear what the OP had done, and a ball park of what he paid, and if he was happy with the results.

 

[Streetcar]

Every crushed gravel has a stone specification with size to call out. Every one.

mixtures of stone do not have a size call out. At most they have maximum size

 

[paulsharvey]

So, if you go to any of the local rock mines; and get "limerock road base" without a approval number, that is blasted or pit dug rock, crushed and piled. It does Not have a max other then the screen on the crusher, and has what fines come out. The approved material does have a max size, and an allowable percentage passing each sieve, and an % passing the #200 (dust). Literal, that's what you order, limerock road base; not ABC123, "limerock road base". If it's got a DOT approved pit material number, it is tested at regular intervels; but if it does not; it is on the end client to do any testing want. This is not a manufactured product, it's straight out of a pit in the ground. The material changes over time, that's why the continued testing is required to stay approved. Commercial construction projects, they have an independent testing lab sample for proctor, LBR, and all; but I Highly doubt anyone is taking LBRs, or density tests on a residential driveway.

Rainy weeks, the material will have high moisture content, dry spells, if it's been in a pile, it's gonna need a water truck.

Think of it like buying clean fill; the contractor or owners QC is going to have to sample at regular "lots" but you not going to say "send me a load of 0.5mm to 2mm sand, with 12% silt";

 

[paulsharvey]

Attached is an example of approved pits in Central FLa

 

[ovrszd]

mixtures of stone do not have a size call out. At most they have maximum size

Which is a size call out.