Parking EVs indoors

[3930dave]

Two of us tried to knock this down with fire extinguishers today, before flames started showing through the hood. Without popping the hood it was a futile effort, and I wasn’t about to try that.
Finally the store clerk who had called the FD told us they said to leave it.

Amazingly, as I was taking this picture people were still pulling in and trying to get gas.View attachment 791049View attachment 791049

Of course people were still pulling in..... just thought it was some new advertising..... Fire Sale Here ! More seriously...... it was probably because their phone did NOT tell them to NOT pull-in...... wishing that was entirely intended as a joke. Ranting somewhat today..... because it is that level of Disengagement With Reality that I'm working on counteracting @ work.

Most seriously.... props to you for stepping up to try and do something, but balanced with knowing when to stand-down !

Electrical fires go back to the start of the auto industry, and are not easy to suppress esp. with no direct access. There aren't likely stats available from back when, but I'd suspect the self-burn rate on Model T's (almost no wiring compared to today, and no plastics) would be lower.

There are various prices that can be paid, for Progress.....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Emergency response guide.

AFV Emergency Response Guides | Download from NFPA

NFPA actively maintains a collection of Emergency Response Guides from several alternative fuel vehicle (AFV) manufacturers. The guides are free to download.

www.nfpa.org

Makes sense that is gathered there. Illustrates the problem though.

Multiple options for shutdown on large (and probably small) vehicles. It's tough enough to train peasants (like me) how to effectively use a fire extinguisher, that has been around most/all of our lives.

One large vehicle listed there has a tagged line-to-cut, not that far from the HV battery. (I get it... that is a lock-out safety move, likely intended for dealing with a minor unrelated vehicle fire, so that the HV pack can be electrically isolated). Good reference material, thanks for posting.

That said, given how fast these Li packs go up I expect that nobody in the vicinity will have time to do anything except Run.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

The amount of plastics by weight has incresed significantly in all vehicles. Interesting article in link below.

Protecting Parking Garages | NFPA

Why modern vehicles are burning hotter, and how to protect the garages that house them.

www.nfpa.org

One of the proposals in the next code cycle for parking strutures (NFPA 88A) is that all Parking Structures (over 1000sq. ft.) will be required to have Fire Sprinklers.

NFPA 13 (Standard for Installation of Fire Sprinklers) will have a change, where Fire Sprinklers are installed in parking structures a 33% increase in design density for sprinklers will go into effect. Just one of many changes coming, and not just because of EV's.

I drive relatively old vehicles. Notable comment in that report concerning how much change has happened circa 2009 - 2019 in vehicles.

Densify vertically..... building chimneys, in the context of this thread. What happens if that fire gets away in underground parking, below a residential or commercial tower ?

Rgds, D.

 

[ponytug]

Unless you have fire hydrants, lots of water, the will and the training to hose the EVs down, yes, I think the advisable response is to evacuate.

Here is an older video on a training;

The current Tesla recommendation is along the lines of "let it burn, and cool off the adjacent areas as needed", which may be in part due to environmental concerns for the water running off. (My guess!)

Something not often thought of, but where will 200,000 gallons of water drain to? Are the drains sized and sloped appropriately to handle debris laden water?

All the best,

Peter

 

[3930dave]

Limited cranial capacity (on my part) is one reason I like KISS approaches, esp. in Emergency situations.

Can't remember if we've had one of the tanks up here yet..... one example from the EU where it's more commonly used:

Unfortunately not an option, for the application I'm concerned about.....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Unless you have fire hydrants, lots of water, the will and the training to hose the EVs down, yes, I think the advisable response is to evacuate.

Here is an older video on a training;

The current Tesla recommendation is along the lines of "let it burn, and cool off the adjacent areas as needed", which may be in part due to environmental concerns for the water running off. (My guess!)

Something not often thought of, but where will 200,000 gallons of water drain to? Are the drains sized and sloped appropriately to handle debris laden water?

All the best,

Peter

Watched it all. Good video. Illustrates well, the thermal problems. Cryogenics might be the best solution, but obviously not practical.

There is Enviro Liability (in/of itself, a big industry) in pretty much everything today, so that is a def possibility.

I also suspect that T/Elon is well aware, once the Li pack goes up there is little/no hope of stopping it. So, again, they may be defending pro-actively from a slightly different legal attack......

.... Your Honour, my client had limited water resources available, and since Tesla had not notified them to direct the water @ surrounding and nearby material, they hold significant responsibility for the ensuing building and forest fire.....

I never want to be involved in a court-case, and don't deliberately go looking for material on them, but in just casual general reading, I've seen much weaker legal arguments than that ^, carry the day.......

(The rabbit-holes my mind goes down..... thinking about HV packs and H2O...... that must make training for water-rescue of a submerged EV really interesting.....)

Rgds, D.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Unless you have fire hydrants, lots of water, the will and the training to hose the EVs down, yes, I think the advisable response is to evacuate.

Here is an older video on a training;

The current Tesla recommendation is along the lines of "let it burn, and cool off the adjacent areas as needed", which may be in part due to environmental concerns for the water running off. (My guess!)

Something not often thought of, but where will 200,000 gallons of water drain to? Are the drains sized and sloped appropriately to handle debris laden water?

All the best,

Peter

A Structural Engineer that I was working with on a new parking garage recommends a containment area be setup around a burning EV in a garage to keep the water close to the vehicle.
This is to help keep heat from spreading through the concrete and rebar. When the water boils it is replaced in the contanment area by new make up water.

 

[3930dave]

A Structural Engineer that I was working with on a new parking garage recommends a containment area be setup around a burning EV in a garage to keep the water close to the vehicle.
This is to help keep heat from spreading through the concrete and rebar. When the water boils it is replaced in the contanment area by new make up water.

Great example, of why I took the time to start this thread......

Thanks, I may PM you on this at a later date.

Rgds, D.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS says that fully electric vehicles are 10x LESS likely to catch fire than conventional vehicles.

this makes me feel good.

 

[ning]

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS says that fully electric vehicles are 10x LESS likely to catch fire than conventional vehicles.

this makes me feel good.

I'm curious if this will hold true long-term, particularly as vehicles age and vibration affects electrical connections & components, and the more low- to medium-end EV cars are built whether we'll start seeing a greater proportion.