Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[ETD66SS]

So, been wanting to build at a lot that I have owned for nearly 20 years now. I think I am finally in a position to do so, albeit at the worst time to build... That's my luck.

I have attached my shop/living space design. Talked to various residential and post frame builders. Many of them suggest bookshelf framing the garage and upper living space portion of the structure. Most of them recommend sheathing the garage and living space walls with 7/16" OSB and the living space roof with 5/8" OSB before the steel siding and roofing is installed. One of the builders thinks that's just a waste of money and that the steel provides the anti-racking for wind loads just fine. Thoughts? Will drywall in the living space be subject to more cracking without the sheathing?

The 10 X 12 OH door bay will be for a 2 post asymmetric truck lift. The 14 X 14 sheet roll doors will be in a 48 X 48 area where I'd like to have a 5-7 ton bridge crane someday. Want to go with sheet roll doors to make sure the doors do not interfere with the future shop crane.

The living space is minimal, per the municipality, I cannot go under 900 sq-ft living space, this design ends up at around 990 sq-ft.

I have also attached an ICF design as the "real" house option. Both designs are of my own making, but RA's have looked at both and they will be stamped, which is required in my area.

One of the builders is looking at both of these designs and will be pricing out the builds for me. (For either design I will be helping with labor wherever I can digging my own trenches, etc, but I do have a fulltime job) If they are similar in cost, what would you build? This would be my final residence, so the decision is a life decision...

I really want a shop ASAP because I am almost 50 years old and sick of working on my equipment outside in the weather.

At the same time, a "real" house would be nice as opposed to living in a barn. Not to mention it is an upper story with stairs that I will have to deal with the rest of my life.

If I were to build the ICF house, that puts out my shop probably at least another 5 years.

The ICF house design has a decent garage and will have provisions in the floor for the asymmetric truck lift. So I will have somewhat of a shop to tide me over until I put up a larger structure for working on my equipment. (Not an contractor of any sort, equipment is personal/hobby stuff).

 

[dodge man]

I can’t comment on how to build one or the details but there are a few in my area. The design of the second one is nicer and feels more like a house so I like it better. I’d check with your assessor on taxes too, I know in my area these tend to get taxed lower if they are built inside a metal building.

 

[ETD66SS]

I can’t comment on how to build one or the details but there are a few in my area. The design of the second one is nicer and feels more like a house so I like it better. I’d check with your assessor on taxes too, I know in my area these tend to get taxed lower if they are built inside a metal building.

I actually just emailed the town assessor to try and get them to pre-assess based on the plans. I have very high property and school taxes in my area. For the ICF design, I am expecting about ~$12,000 per year in taxes (for a 1243 sq-ft home, which is nuts). I'm hoping the assessor can clue me in on how much less I'd be paying on the Barndominium.

 

[dodge man]

Ouch! I thought my taxes were bad. That is nuts.

 

[Torvy]

We are well into our build at this point. We put the shop as a separate building for a number of reasons. Shop fire is less likely to spread to living areas; less noise (not so important if you live alone); odors and such less likely to permeate living area and clothes, etc.

Steel shell over wood. Of course we don't have NY winter, so insulation is not the same issue.

 

[MossRoad]

So, been wanting to build at a lot that I have owned for nearly 20 years now. I think I am finally in a position to do so, albeit at the worst time to build... That's my luck.

I have attached my shop/living space design. Talked to various residential and post frame builders. Many of them suggest bookshelf framing the garage and upper living space portion of the structure. Most of them recommend sheathing the garage and living space walls with 7/16" OSB and the living space roof with 5/8" OSB before the steel siding and roofing is installed. One of the builders thinks that's just a waste of money and that the steel provides the anti-racking for wind loads just fine. Thoughts? Will drywall in the living space be subject to more cracking without the sheathing?

The 10 X 12 OH door bay will be for a 2 post asymmetric truck lift. The 14 X 14 sheet roll doors will be in a 48 X 48 area where I'd like to have a 5-7 ton bridge crane someday. Want to go with sheet roll doors to make sure the doors do not interfere with the future shop crane.

The living space is minimal, per the municipality, I cannot go under 900 sq-ft living space, this design ends up at around 990 sq-ft.

I have also attached an ICF design as the "real" house option. Both designs are of my own making, but RA's have looked at both and they will be stamped, which is required in my area.

One of the builders is looking at both of these designs and will be pricing out the builds for me. (For either design I will be helping with labor wherever I can digging my own trenches, etc, but I do have a fulltime job) If they are similar in cost, what would you build? This would be my final residence, so the decision is a life decision...

I really want a shop ASAP because I am almost 50 years old and sick of working on my equipment outside in the weather.

At the same time, a "real" house would be nice as opposed to living in a barn. Not to mention it is an upper story with stairs that I will have to deal with the rest of my life.

If I were to build the ICF house, that puts out my shop probably at least another 5 years.

The ICF house design has a decent garage and will have provisions in the floor for the asymmetric truck lift. So I will have somewhat of a shop to tide me over until I put up a larger structure for working on my equipment. (Not a contractor of any sort, equipment is personal/hobby stuff).

While the thought of a barndominium is appealing at first, and not to be negative, these are just the thoughts I've had on the subject over the years...

- I would not want a shop attached to my home. There's a small, but real risk of fire, fumes, carbon monoxide, etc. I don't and won't have an attached garage for the same reason. At the most, I'd have a breezeway between them to keep the rain off bringing in the groceries.

- Speaking of bringing in the groceries, I would not make my retirement home a place where I had to climb stairs. While I'm currently fit and able, a 1st story master, kitchen, bathroom, living room, are all necessities.

- If you ever have a birthday or holiday celebration, all guests will be required to climb stairs to get to it. May not apply to you, but we have family and/or friends over at least every week. My mother in-law cannot climb stairs very well.

- At the very least, make provisions for an elevator if you go with 2nd floor only living. When you're 80-90 or even if you're young with an injury, you won't regret it.

Anyhow, good luck with your decision making process. It's an exciting time.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I'm in the same boat as you. My house plans are being worked up with a builder for a quote. My wife and I went through many revisions with the architect then 2020 happened and building costs skyrocketed. She tells me that it's time to build NOW. I guess she's tired of living in a little mobile home...

Looking at both I have some thoughts. Firstly, for me, no way I would want to live on the 2nd floor. In my opinion stairs are fine for an occasional use area but not all the time. I go in and out of my house multiple times daily. Although I'm youngish now and would be able to climb for years to come, there would come a point that it would not be as easy or impossible all together. Also think about unexpected injuries or sickness. My inlaws are in their mid 70s and they just do not use their upstairs rooms any more. It's too much of a hassle for them to climb the stairs. FIL has had his knees replaced and he hasn't been able to climb the stairs for at least 5 years. That's just my opinion though I'm sure some people like stair life too.

Also, from my experience talking with builders and architects, they claim the square footage of space will cost the same whether on the 2nd floor or a larger footprint and only 1 floor. They say subfloor, floor joists, support structures to hold the 2nd floor up, etc. are just as expensive as adding more footprint to the main structure. I don't know if that's coming out right. Basically I'm saying if there is truth to what the people I have talked to have said. You should be able to set the top floor down on the ground beside the garage section that is under it for the same cost as having them stacked on top of each other.

Why such huge difference in build type between the 2? The barndo is a pole barn and stand alone house has concrete walls. Seems like you could build a more traditional structure for less money and have more available for your shop. I would also personally be leery of post beam construction for my home like the barndo is set up. If a post rots in the open section of the shop it would suck but it would be out in the open and replaceable. If a post that is holding up the house rots it would probably be a much bigger deal to replace.

I thought about both ways and I am building a separate house and shop. We are focusing on the house and building the shop later.

 

[ETD66SS]

Yeah, I already have a spot picked out for the elevator...

 

[MossRoad]

Also, I didn't see a basement. I dislike slab houses, and if you're going to put a crawl space under it, and need to dig down to put in frost footings and a foundation, you might as well go another 4-5' deep and put a basement under the house if you go with plan 2.

 

[Deleted member 216442]

Insurers don't like garages ready to light up a living space. Check insurance prices. I'd build a small ranch and a separate huge garage. Having to climb stairs to the house is a pain especially a wintry day with groceries or guests. Shovel required first thing. Ranch - safer, less dust and dirt in the home, quieter, etc. The cook in your kitchen gets to enjoy noises from anyone going to the bathroom, and to listen to the washer/dryer. Not my cup of tea.

 

[ETD66SS]

Also, I didn't see a basement. I dislike slab houses, and if you're going to put a crawl space under it, and need to dig down to put in frost footings and a foundation, you might as well go another 4-5' deep and put a basement under the house if you go with plan 2.

The ICF house hase a full 9ft basement. The crawl space is under the a-frame living room only.

I suppose I should add that my thoughts for the future concerning the stairs to living space, is that I would build a small single story house in the future and that upper living space in the shop would be converted to a workshop of some type. The issue there I guess is the town hall meetings required to ask for that living space to be removed from assessment.

Also to answer another question posed, I did have the ICF house quoted as a stick frame home instead of ICF in 2021, and it was not much less than the ICF version.

 

[ovrszd]

Also, I didn't see a basement. I dislike slab houses, and if you're going to put a crawl space under it, and need to dig down to put in frost footings and a foundation, you might as well go another 4-5' deep and put a basement under the house if you go with plan 2.

What will be in the basement?

 

[ETD66SS]

Insurers don't like garages ready to light up a living space. Check insurance prices. I'd build a small ranch and a separate huge garage. Having to climb stairs to the house is a pain especially a wintry day with groceries or guests. Shovel required first thing. Ranch - safer, less dust and dirt in the home, quieter, etc. The cook in your kitchen gets to enjoy noises from anyone going to the bathroom, and to listen to the washer/dryer. Not my cup of tea.

I live alone.

 

[MossRoad]

What will be in the basement?

Mechanicals, food storage, recreation room that's naturally cooler in the summer and easy to heat in the winter, and Clem Studebaker's fossil collection.

 

[ovrszd]

Mechanicals, food storage, recreation room that's naturally cooler in the summer and easy to heat in the winter, and Clem Studebaker's fossil collection.

Equals stairs.

But it sounds like stairs doesn't bother the OP.

 

[ETD66SS]

Mechanicals, food storage, recreation room that's naturally cooler in the summer and easy to heat in the winter, and Clem Studebaker's fossil collection.

Plus in my state basements are not taxable square footage.

 

[ETD66SS]

Equals stairs.

But it sounds like stairs doesn't bother the OP.

Stairs do not bother me no. My father just passed away at 88 years of age and used stairs to the end.

Now that doesn't mean I won't have issues at that age.

I guess I should also say I am a life long bachelor and plan to stay that way. I suppose the Barndominium design reflects that more than the ICF design.

 

[turbo36]

Leave room for an elevator, a little over a year ago I was doing 4,000' elevation mountain bike rides and hikes out in Utah, but by three months later I couldn't walk. Recently had surgery and back on the mend but you never know how fast life can change. Plan ahead.

 

[ovrszd]

We built 4 years ago. Were I a Bachelor I would have built the shop and house in one building. Good friend of mine is a builder. He taught me how to segregate the two areas without noise and odor exchange. By the time we did all that, it was a similar cost to build two structures. So my house is 25ft from the shop.

House has a one car attached garage. House is 2x6 stud 1900 sqft on a slab, no stairs or steps. Shop is 39x48 2x6 stud metal paneled all weather.

We were very considerate of required maintenance. Both of our buildings require minimal maintenance. Nothing outside to paint for example.

Sounds like you have a grip on the costs. Design changes can have a large affect on construction cost. Our house cost $122 p/sqft. Shop cost $43 p/sqft. In discussion, cost can be comparable when using cost p/sqft terms. Otherwise you lose valuable information quickly. For example, in my World, cost analysis on a house does not include the square footage of the attached garage. So total cost of the structure divided by the square footage of living space. Sounds like your tax people use something similar. So they don't tax you for the basement, as long as it's unfinished.

Another lesson learned, curb appeal is expensive. Fake dormers, roof valleys, fancy doors with transom all add to the cost immediately.

 

[ETD66SS]

Another lesson learned, curb appeal is expensive. Fake dormers, roof valleys, fancy doors with transom all add to the cost immediately.

This is very true.

The attached renders is what I had in mind when I first designed the ICF house. I soon realized all the "fancy" stuff like natural stone veneer, clear span floor diaphragm via the floor trusses etc, caused the build cost to skyrocket. The faux A-Frame was another feature that cause builders to freak out. So I'm thinking, be it ICF or stick frame, that design while only being 1243 sq-ft is very expensive to build due to the way I designed the home. So I'm very curious to hear what this latest builder has to say for the build cost of that design. I've only had one builder give me an estimate on that ICF design and he came in at $460/sq-ft! All the other builders at the time no-quoted the build...