Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE UPDATE

[Danica]

I just went back to that very first photo that you posted and those hoses really are in terrible condition. I wonder how we all missed that? But we did. Ordinarily I look at hoses only to see if they are leakers or not, but I have once or twice had hoses that collapsed and blocked flow. Just didn't expect to see that much aging on those hoses on a tractor that is not that old.

But there they are. The one hose going up has obvious cracks in the surface and the other one is one of those braided cover hoses that were always "iffy" - and of the sort with fiber reinforcing braid that I haven't seen in decades. The fiber braid is an obvious leak path. At least it does have one of the continuous pressure type hose clamps, and that's good because as a hose ages and hardens any kind of continuous pressure clamp works better than the worm drive clamps.

It still strikes me as odd about those age-cracks in both hoses. Especially with diesel fuel which just isn't that hard on elastomers.
It is normal for rapid aging and cracking to happen in older gas engine hoses when an older hose begins to see gasoline with alcohol in it. And we do know that some diesel additives contain substantial alcohol. I wonder if using certain diesel additives and long storage could be the cause of that premature rubber hose cracking?

Hint, occasionally for a gas engine like our mower or pressure washer I won't be able to find the right size fuel hose for a fitting - or maybe I just want to be able to use a semi-transparent hose. I've had good luck using model airplane fuel line. It's impervious to just about every chemical, flexible, and available in surprisingly large diameters.
YMMV,
rScotty

Excellent advice and i will try it out today!
Thank you
Danica

 

[Danica]

PS re your comment on fuel lines — why would it take 20 min and a warm engine for this problem to manifest itself? I mean, if there was air coming in are you suggesting that it takes a while for a sufficient ‘bubble’ in the line(s) to become a problem?

Tx again,
D

 

[JC-jetro]

We have been all over the place with this for all the right reasons. I still think it is fuel related .... but what triggers the fuel stoppage? I have a parasitic draw on my old van's harness somewhere. I checked inside the dash and everything possible but yet to find it. On top of that it is random and intermittent that I hate. My best solution was to remove battery negative and only put it back when i use the van to haul something. You might have a situation like that with the power to fuel kill solenoid being intermittent. You might have a loose connection, partially corroded connection or something that expand due to electrical power causing a circuit to open and after a while it cools off and then goes to normal (closed) position. This things are difficult to pinpoint. There are CT (Current Transducer) or data loggers that can be put in a circuit to graph to observe an anomaly based on programming of device for continuous monitoring. This is kind of outside the scope for a tractor. when it dies and tractor still hot immediately check the voltage to see if that gives you a tell tale sign. It is frustratingly slow process to pin point it. Just a food for thought!!

 

[piper184]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow. I have heard of hydraulic lines that de-laminate internally, causing all kinds of issues. Sometimes a piece can come loose and "flap" over a fitting partially or completely blocking the line. Other times they can "balloon" out with the same results but shrink back open when the pressure is off.

Possible that the same kind of thing is happening to you fuel lines. Hose warms up and gets flexible. Internally it collapses or balloons and shuts off the fuel flow. Cools down and returns to "normal". Even when you remove one end to check the flow while warm, the pressures change and it opens up. Of course this is all just speculation here.

If you have easy access to the lines, replacing them will get you new hose life and piece of mind about untimely failures in the future. Also it is just one more step in the process of elimination.

If it were me, I would replace them all (At this point I would be about frustrated enough to do that anyway) but keep the old hoses. Once confirmed that the problem is solved, I would be tempted to slice the hoses open lengthwise just to see inside. I am curious that way.

Hang in there, you have got to be getting close to the answer!

 

[LouNY]

One possibility would be a return line plugging, that would allow some run time till return pressure got too high,
when shut down it could slowly drop allowing restart.

 

[Danica]

Thank you for all the ideas. I will try what you’ve suggested tomorrow if it isn’t raining. Didn’t check the outflow of fuel from sediment bowl. Will do that. Yes there is a fuel pump and from the repair manual it seems pretty ez to remove (that Woods FEL is such a PITA when it come to accessing the engine components I almost feel like this would be easier with it off. Plus it has a Sims cab which makes access to tank a real issue). A blockage in the fuel filter head would be a dream…I can only hope and will check tomorrow if possible. I will also try bleeding at the injectors.

Parenthetically a friend with a cat 0 Kubota poured a 5 gal tank of fuel into his machine and he never kept it capped resulting in him pouring an entire dead wasp nest int the tank!! He was able to resolve it with the air blowback but I think this problem will come back to haunt him. Exact same symptoms as mine ironically).
D

Any idea what the indentation right at the top of the fuel filter housing is? It is VERY hard for me to get close due to FEL which makes all this a real pain. I had to just push my phone down to it to get close enuf. I am at a loss…

 

[Danica]

Ooops, yes that’s the screen I referenced earlier. Well, I will check it and if that’s the culprit will send the new $60 lift pump back. And you’re right I did not pay much attention to the filter casting so there are two possible solutions. Thanks again (and to those who mentioned these before)

Is this the indentation you were referring to? If so, what does it do? I haven’t removed the whole unit cap and bowl to thoroughly clean it.

 

[Danica]

Ooops, yes that’s the screen I referenced earlier. Well, I will check it and if that’s the culprit will send the new $60 lift pump back. And you’re right I did not pay much attention to the filter casting so there are two possible solutions. Thanks again (and to those who mentioned these before)

I don’t think this pre 1999 engine does not have a fuel lift pump? No reference to it in the repair manual…

 

[piper184]

The braided hoses at the sediment bowl, one from the tank and the other out to the lift pump or main fuel filter? Simple enough...

Where does the non-braided line come from/go to? Without seeing the whole system, I would guess it is a return line from the injectors or injector pump?

The depression in the top of the cast housing for the sediment bowl appears to be just a place where it could be drilled and tapped for another fitting that is not needed on your tractor. Quite possible the manufacturer only has one casting that it uses for many different installations. I have seen sediment bowls that had a water sensor in them. That might be one use for a fitting in that location.

 

[dirttoys]

fascinating. seen with gas engines with bad head gasket or cracked head.

Any oil in antifreeze or oil getting fuller?

pop radiator cap and see if you see bubbles before it dies?

remove thermostat and see if results change?

defeat shut down solenoid and see if results change?

Best,

ed

 

[Danica]

The braided hoses at the sediment bowl, one from the tank and the other out to the lift pump or main fuel filter? Simple enough...

Where does the non-braided line come from/go to? Without seeing the whole system, I would guess it is a return line from the injectors or injector pump?

The depression in the top of the cast housing for the sediment bowl appears to be just a place where it could be drilled and tapped for another fitting that is not needed on your tractor. Quite possible the manufacturer only has one casting that it uses for many different installations. I have seen sediment bowls that had a water sensor in them. That might be one use for a fitting in that location.

Yes, you’re right re the hoses. The brained ones go from tank to filter and then out to injector (I’m in a quandary re the lift pump though as I think it appeared in 1999 and my unit was likely built in 1998 since it was purchased Aug ‘99. Plus, the big repair manual doesn’t reference a lift pump.

The other two lines attached to the filter housing: one goes back up to tank and runs freely and the second one comes back from the engine (injector pump?)

Ok, thanks for comment re the indentation of cap; that makes sense. Problem is I just can’t get very close to these thing with the FEL hoses and arms in the way. It is really irritating.

 

[Danica]

fascinating. seen with gas engines with bad head gasket or cracked head.

Any oil in antifreeze or oil getting fuller?

pop radiator cap and see if you see bubbles before it dies?

remove thermostat and see if results change?

defeat shut down solenoid and see if results change?

Best,

ed

Hi, yes yes the coolant level in the overflow reservoir (with lines indicating ‘add’ and ‘full’) rises a few inches as engine warms up but not to the point it overflows into the tube at top at which point I guess it just would drain to ground.

I am waiting for an air filter and the one in tractor was installed 2017. Plus this tractor does all the bush hogging work so it does get dusty. I’m praying that it arrives tomorrow and miraculously resolves this problem (a long shot) before I have to replace the fuel lines as others have now suggested. It will be a pain but if that fixes it I will be very happy.

Re removing thermostat, I guess a new one wouldn’t be too expensive.

I may just flush the radiator since it hasn’t been done in years…

Danica

 

[dirttoys]

Hi, yes yes the coolant level in the overflow reservoir (with lines indicating ‘add’ and ‘full’) rises a few inches as engine warms up but not to the point it overflows into the tube at top at which point I guess it just would drain to ground.

I am waiting for an air filter and the one in tractor was installed 2017. Plus this tractor does all the bush hogging work so it does get dusty. I’m praying that it arrives tomorrow and miraculously resolves this problem (a long shot) before I have to replace the fuel lines as others have now suggested. It will be a pain but if that fixes it I will be very happy.

Re removing thermostat, I guess a new one wouldn’t be too expensive.

I may just flush the radiator since it hasn’t been done in years…

Danica

Cool,

While awaiting the air filter, pull the old one and blow it out (careful not to puncture). Certainly replace the thermo if you would like, I would pull it and see how it runs without it, based on the problem seems to coincide with coming up to op temp.

Best,

ed

 

[NewGuyInNewEngland]

In that first picture, the top right rubber hose looks to be completely perished [cracked and swelled]. You definitely should replace all those hoses and vacuum lines.

Good point GCM about replacing the vacuum lines as well. There are none on my Mahindra so didn't think of that. Good call on your part.

 

[NewGuyInNewEngland]

Thank you! And my oh my taking that wheel off must’ve been fun. Yikes. Yes I will go to Napa and replace them all.
Danica

You're quite welcome. And yes, it was a bit nerve-wracking removing that wheel and rolling it to the wall and back to remount it. If we dropped it, it would have required another tractor to lift it vertical. Fortunately I have some friendly helpful neighbors and the 3 of us got it off easily (no rust). To remount the wheel, one of the original helpers invited another friend/neighbor to join us. He is a strapping young man who works for UPS maintaining their trucks. He pretty much did the remount job himself while we lent a little bit of help here and there. He even torqued the lug nuts.
Good luck with the fuel/vacuum line swap.
Hopefully, that will be the fix.
If not, at least you won't have to worry about collapsing/crumbling fuel lines in the future.

Ng

 

[BleedingOrange]

Since you mentioned using the tractor for bush hogging, is there any chance your rad is plugged with debris just enough to let you run for 10-20 minutes, depending on rpm, and then a temp sensor is shutting your tractor down, until it cools down enough to run again, for another 10-20 minutes ? I would remove rad, and give it a good external cleaning, between the fins. Seems like it is definitely high temp. related to me. It is definitely a good idea to change all fuel hoses, as others have mentioned, they do get old and break down, causing running issues.

 

[Raul-02]

Have you had an opportunity to look into the fuel tank when empty?
Could there be some obstruction that rolls over the outlet?
it is not impossible that you could have a biofilm slug that, over a period of years, grew on the biofuels that we are all forced to use, and it is loose in the tank and somehow covers the fuel outlet.

 

[Danica]

Cool,

While awaiting the air filter, pull the old one and blow it out (careful not to puncture). Certainly replace the thermo if you would like, I would pull it and see how it runs without it, based on the problem seems to coincide with coming up to op temp.

Best,

ed

Got the new one today, installed it and it has been running at 1,500rpm for about 10 min. If it keeps going past the 20 min mark, problem solved. Otherwise back to the drawing board.

 

[Danica]

You're quite welcome. And yes, it was a bit nerve-wracking removing that wheel and rolling it to the wall and back to remount it. If we dropped it, it would have required another tractor to lift it vertical. Fortunately I have some friendly helpful neighbors and the 3 of us got it off easily (no rust). To remount the wheel, one of the original helpers invited another friend/neighbor to join us. He is a strapping young man who works for UPS maintaining their trucks. He pretty much did the remount job himself while we lent a little bit of help here and there. He even torqued the lug nuts.
Good luck with the fuel/vacuum line swap.
Hopefully, that will be the fix.
If not, at least you won't have to worry about collapsing/crumbling fuel lines in the future.

Ng

Good point, I will replace the lines regardless. Am waiting with baited breath as the new air filter arrived today and I installed it. Tractor has been running about 10 min but if problem is still there in won’t start happening for another 10-15 min. On edge of seat…

 

[Danica]

Have you had an opportunity to look into the fuel tank when empty?
Could there be some obstruction that rolls over the outlet?
it is not impossible that you could have a biofilm slug that, over a period of years, grew on the biofuels that we are all forced to use, and it is loose in the tank and somehow covers the fuel outlet.

I agree that is a possibility but as it dies down and pulled the fuel line from filter housing and it was streaming out no problem. This has led me to thing it is not clogged in tank but the theory certainly makes sense.