Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE UPDATE

[Danica]

Remember that the casting at the top of the filter head is part of the fuel delivery circuit. Check that. You said you blew through the in and out lines but you didn't mention blowing out the filter casting itself. Pay particular attention to the fuel inlet part of the casting.

I would have checked the lift pump screen first before I ordered a new pump.

Ooops, yes that’s the screen I referenced earlier. Well, I will check it and if that’s the culprit will send the new $60 lift pump back. And you’re right I did not pay much attention to the filter casting so there are two possible solutions. Thanks again (and to those who mentioned these before)

 

[Danica]

A silly question, but how long does it take to get it started again? Only ask because i wonder if an alternator issue could be effecting battery charging?. Leading to the drop in voltage you see.

can you test battery voltage next time this happenes.

Oh my, yes very possible because a brand new battery went in prior to this mess but it was fine for quite a while. I will def monitor battery voltage. Typically if I let it sit for an hour it will start up fine and run smoothly until it is warmed up (per temp gauge) at which point is slowly loses power. As noted once a while ago if it warms up at 1,000rpm it could take 40 min and then it starts dying. If it warms up in 10min at 2,500 rpm the same thing happens just sooner. That’s why I think weirdly enuf it could be engine temp related as kooky as that sounds…. Thanks for the input

 

[Danica]

I would try using a 5 gallon can of diesel with a hose to your pump/filter head. This will eliminate any possibility of something in the tank blocking the pick up. If that works then you know it's forward of that.

Yep that was suggested but will be tricky as the woods FEL is totally in the way (ditto sims cab) giving me just maybe 4” of free space to work in. Very inconvenient!

 

[Danica]

Pull the tank and throw a small chain in it and shake it rinse and repeat.

With the sims cab on pulling the tank would be a major project I think. I have another FEL that could help out but omg this sounds like a lot of work. Plus I flushed it and never had diminished fuel flow from tank. But if all else fails I will attempt. First I will give the fuel lift pump a chance ditto the housing on top of the sediment bowl.

 

[dieselscout80]

I would try using a 5 gallon can of diesel with a hose to your pump/filter head. This will eliminate any possibility of something in the tank blocking the pick up. If that works then you know it's forward of that.

I think you mean if it works from the 5 gal can then the issue is in the tank. Is that correct in your mind as it is for me?

 

[NewGuyInNewEngland]

A possibility worth checking out is whether you're getting bubbles in the fuel. Since the injector pump pulls a little bit of a vacuum on the system between the float bowl & the pump, a small leak in an old rubber fuel line, or a loose connection could let bubbles in. A small amount of air could make the engine run poorly without being bad enough to require priming. Also, since everything expands a little when it heats up, it could be that you don't have an air leak until the engine is warm.

Thought I'd add my two cents... Nickfrank may be on to something...looking at your original photo, I see you have fuel lines that have a braided (metal?) jacket. I just went through a similar scenario with my Mahindra 5035 which came stock with a similar type fuel line.

Only 11 years old with 300 hours and it would run fine for about 20 - 30 minutes at idle or low rpm... about 10 minutes during active work. Seems the rubber used becomes porous and allows air to leak into the fuel system without any sort of fuel leakage, which was the real head-scratcher part.
Turns out Mahindra had a bad run of fuel lines around the time I purchased mine in 2011 (my dealer never gave me a heads up) so with input from the TBN community and some local friends, we removed the heavy left rear wheel (about 500+ lbs with beet juice for ballast) so I could get my hands in where they needed for the lines to the tank and replaced them. Also replaced 3 others for fuel return and injector feed (low-pressure side). She's been running like a charm ever since.
If those are the original fuel lines, I'd suggest replacing all of them with real rubber (not plastic) auto parts store fuel lines (got mine from amazon on sale, although the price has gone up since)
Good luck.
NG

 

[sandytrail]

Some New Hollands have an electric fuel shutoff solenoid. I am not familiar with that tractor, but.....just in case.

 

[Danica]

I didn't know that the Ford 1920 had a fuel transfer pump (lift pump) so I Googled it and sure enough there it is. So it jumps to the head of the list. Much as I hate to throw parts at a problem there comes a point when I will do a bit of that before calling a diesel mechanic.

View attachment 761914

Ok wierd question: the fuel transfer pump in ur pic is for engines manufactured after 1999 and mine was purchased Aug 1999. Isn’t it likely that my Shib engine was built in 1998 or before? I say that also cuz looking very carefully all around it I don’t see anything like the pump in the pic. Who on earth would know the diff between a ‘98 vs ‘99 Shib engine in the ford 1920? This is total esoterica! I’m afraid she may be off to dealer. The die down is definitely related to engine temp. All the lines a flowing solidly when it dies down (tried them one by one) including outflow from sediment bowl.

 

[Danica]

Thought I'd add my two cents... Nickfrank may be on to something...looking at your original photo, I see you have fuel lines that have a braided (metal?) jacket. I just went through a similar scenario with my Mahindra 5035 which came stock with a similar type fuel line.

Only 11 years old with 300 hours and it would run fine for about 20 - 30 minutes at idle or low rpm... about 10 minutes during active work. Seems the rubber used becomes porous and allows air to leak into the fuel system without any sort of fuel leakage, which was the real head-scratcher part.
Turns out Mahindra had a bad run of fuel lines just after I purchased mine in 2011 (my dealer never gave me a heads up) so with input from the TBN community and some local friends, we removed the heavy left rear wheel (about 500+ lbs with beet juice for ballast) so I could get my hands in where they needed for the lines to the tank and replaced them. Also replaced 3 others for fuel return and injector feed (low-pressure side). She's been running like a charm ever since.
If those are the original fuel lines, I'd suggest replacing all of them with real rubber (not plastic) auto parts store fuel lines (got mine from amazon on sale, although the price has gone up since)
Good luck.
NG

I missed this post somehow and it makes sense…the (overflow?) line going back to fuel tank was practically mushy so I trimmed about a half inch from it and replaced. But yes the more important fuel lines are original which makes them over 20 years old. Also, this tractor was bought in Aug ‘99 and there was a big design change such that parts stores online say “pre-1999”. I would imagine my engine was built in ‘98 or earlier…

Thanks again for your ideas and feedback.
Danica

 

[Danica]

Thought I'd add my two cents... Nickfrank may be on to something...looking at your original photo, I see you have fuel lines that have a braided (metal?) jacket. I just went through a similar scenario with my Mahindra 5035 which came stock with a similar type fuel line.

Only 11 years old with 300 hours and it would run fine for about 20 - 30 minutes at idle or low rpm... about 10 minutes during active work. Seems the rubber used becomes porous and allows air to leak into the fuel system without any sort of fuel leakage, which was the real head-scratcher part.
Turns out Mahindra had a bad run of fuel lines just after I purchased mine in 2011 (my dealer never gave me a heads up) so with input from the TBN community and some local friends, we removed the heavy left rear wheel (about 500+ lbs with beet juice for ballast) so I could get my hands in where they needed for the lines to the tank and replaced them. Also replaced 3 others for fuel return and injector feed (low-pressure side). She's been running like a charm ever since.
If those are the original fuel lines, I'd suggest replacing all of them with real rubber (not plastic) auto parts store fuel lines (got mine from amazon on sale, although the price has gone up since)
Good luck.
NG

I’ll go to Napa…

 

[Danica]

Oh my, yes very possible because a brand new battery went in prior to this mess but it was fine for quite a while. I will def monitor battery voltage. Typically if I let it sit for an hour it will start up fine and run smoothly until it is warmed up (per temp gauge) at which point is slowly loses power. As noted once a while ago if it warms up at 1,000rpm it could take 40 min and then it starts dying. If it warms up in 10min at 2,500 rpm the same thing happens just sooner. That’s why I think weirdly enuf it could be engine temp related as kooky as that sounds…. Thanks for the input

Battery voltage remained at 14.64v thruout the die down. I’m convinced it is related to engine temp somehow…something is getting too hot and responding negatively (pun intended)

Danica

 

[NewGuyInNewEngland]

I’ll go to Napa…

Here is the thread I started back in April. There may be more info in there you could use that I didn't mention earlier. It's a fairly long thread with many good suggestions.

1999? I'd definitely replace all of those fuel lines before going any further.

5035 running out of fuel

Hi All, Happy Spring! Long time member here with minimal posts as my 5035 has been rock solid since purchase in 2011. With only 310 hrs on the clock, that may be why. However, little problems are now happening with the fuel system. This winter, the engine just stopped while idling after having...

www.tractorbynet.com

Good luck!
Ng

 

[Tony H]

Read thru all posts. I was leaning toward fuel but I think you exhausted all fuel issues (minus replacing all fuel lines). I don't think they are collapsing or sucking air or tractor would run crummy bit not just shut down. A '99 would have a Low Oil Pressure shutdown. Wondering if that switch is seeing a false 'low pressure' when engine oil heats up and viscosity changes.

 

[NewGuyInNewEngland]

Read thru all posts. I was leaning toward fuel but I think you exhausted all fuel issues (minus replacing all fuel lines). I don't think they are collapsing or sucking air or tractor would run crummy bit not just shut down. A '99 would have a Low Oil Pressure shutdown. Wondering if that switch is seeing a false 'low pressure' when engine oil heats up and viscosity changes.

One would think that porous fuel lines would not cause the symptom the OP is experiencing, but it can and did with my situation.
Having a "Mushy" fuel line, regardless of where it is on the tractor, tells me these lines should be replaced before doing anything else.

I am not a New Holland/Ford 1920 owner so I may stand corrected, but fuel lines are fuel lines, defective from the factory or just old.
Replacing the fuel lines is good solid advice and can be done relatively cheaply and easily unless you have a Mahindra 5035, which required removing the rear wheel for me to get my somewhat large hands in there to do the swap.
Changing the fuel lines before doing any of the other recommended procedures such as draining the tank and inspecting same with a borescope saved me a lot of needless troubleshooting on a fairly new tractor, as noted in my post back in April.

If I read your response correctly, the OP has not replaced the fuel lines yet. Hopefully, this will be an easy repair that will resolve the problem. I may be all wet on this but I thought it was share-worthy as my tractor was behaving the exact same way... no sputter or rough running, just stopped. It would restart after sitting for 20 minutes, or I could force fuel into the system manually using the primer pump on top of the fuel filter housing.

If this doesn't resolve the problem, it was certainly time well spent considering the age of the existing lines.

Ng

 

[GoldenCityMuse]

In that first picture, the top right rubber hose looks to be completely perished [cracked and swelled]. You definitely should replace all those hoses and vacuum lines.

 

[TheWorker76]

Check for a voltage drop to the fuel shutoff solenoid = Battery voltage when stopping/stalls

 

[Danica]

Well you proved it's not a tank strainer clog! Your symptoms all point to a fuel delivery restriction. Have you checked the fuel filter discharge hose.? Do you have continuous full flow at the filter discharge? There could be a blockage in the fuel filter head that limits fuel through the filter.
When the tractor stopped and you pulled the hose to the fuel filter, was the filter fuel bowl full of fuel? when you changed the fuel filter did you bleed the filter? Are you sure the gasket in the filter is installed correctly and that you have the correct filter?

Describe the fuel delivery system? Does the fuel leave the tank, pass through the fuel filter, flow into a lift pump and the pass into the injector pump?

If you have a lift pump, have you checked it by removing the outlet line and cranking the engine (mechanical pump) or just turning the key on (electric pump). If you have this pump, when you test it, it should spew fuel like a cow peein' on a flat rock! If you don't have a lift pump, forget this test.

I would also try bleeding at the injectors. At this point, you have nothing to lose by trying this.

Do these checks in the order i have described and report back. Good Luck.

Thank you! And my oh my taking that wheel off must’ve been fun. Yikes. Yes I will go to Napa and replace them all.
Danica

 

[Danica]

In that first picture, the top right rubber hose looks to be completely perished [cracked and swelled]. You definitely should replace all those hoses and vacuum lines.

Ok, I believe you’re probably right…the one going back into the tank was literally decaying.

Thanks again,
Danica

 

[Going4it]

I'm new to tractor use, but the only foreign car that I ever owned used to give me fits. After I would get home from work (an hour drive), stop for five minutes, then run back out, I would only get 1/4 mile from the house and it would die. Still under warranty, during the fourth trip to the dealership, after replacing just about anything that bolts on, someone found that the flexible hose in the fuel tank would warm/soften up while running for a while then collapse when I shut it off stopping pressure from the pump. When I ran back out, I was using the remaining fuel in the line to get the 1/4 mile.
Again, I'm not familiar with your tractor, but it's diffidently the fuel supply.
Good Luck

 

[rScotty]

Ok, I believe you’re probably right…the one going back into the tank was literally decaying.

Thanks again,
Danica

I just went back to that very first photo that you posted and those hoses really are in terrible condition. I wonder how we all missed that? But we did. Ordinarily I look at hoses only to see if they are leakers or not, but I have once or twice had hoses that collapsed and blocked flow. Just didn't expect to see that much aging on those hoses on a tractor that is not that old.

But there they are. The one hose going up has obvious cracks in the surface and the other one is one of those braided cover hoses that were always "iffy" - and of the sort with fiber reinforcing braid that I haven't seen in decades. The fiber braid is an obvious leak path. At least it does have one of the continuous pressure type hose clamps, and that's good because as a hose ages and hardens any kind of continuous pressure clamp works better than the worm drive clamps.

It still strikes me as odd about those age-cracks in both hoses. Especially with diesel fuel which just isn't that hard on elastomers.
It is normal for rapid aging and cracking to happen in older gas engine hoses when an older hose begins to see gasoline with alcohol in it. And we do know that some diesel additives contain substantial alcohol. I wonder if using certain diesel additives and long storage could be the cause of that premature rubber hose cracking?

Hint, occasionally for a gas engine like our mower or pressure washer I won't be able to find the right size fuel hose for a fitting - or maybe I just want to be able to use a semi-transparent hose. I've had good luck using model airplane fuel line. It's impervious to just about every chemical, flexible, and available in surprisingly large diameters.
YMMV,
rScotty