Hot hose protection?

[joea99]

What can I use to protect from burns due to hot hydraulic lines and fittings? I could fabricate a metal shield, but it might be simpler to just wrap the hose end and fittings with something like woven hose protector and leave it a bit loose. Would not prevent a determined fool from getting burned, but maybe the occasionally forgetful old fool might avoid a shock.

These fittings are on a top and tilt control valve and pretty near operators right arm and can be grazed when reaching for the valve handles. After a bit, those lines get quite hot. I just rearranged the fittings to provide more space which may be enough by itself, but, I'd rather put something in there anyway.

Got some black plastic spiral wrap hose protector on hand, as well as some woven plastic electrical cable protector, but I'd rather have something like the fabric sleeve used for hose protection. Not finding much probably not using the right search terms.

 

[WranglerX]

Maybe...

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Hose Sleeve,Hydraulic Hose and Hose Assemblies,Hydraulics, HYDRAULIC HOSE SLEEVE Brand new, Protec Nylon Hose Sleeve. Self-renewing,

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[Fallon]

Maybe check out the tape they wrap up headers with. Designed for hotter than hydraulics run by a good margin. May retain water & rot things out faster though. Likely to be fiberglass, which wouldn't be great to touch.

Dura-Wrap Sleeving from Hydraulic Parts - BoltOnHooks LLC is designed for hydraulic hoses. I think I have some on a few of my impliments.

 

[orangetree]

what lines are getting this hot @joea99 ? Just checking we're talking about a "normal" mobile system like a tractor.

The max fluid temp in a normal tractor system is not that hot as even plastics go (your skin ... not so tough! )

The "hose protectors" that came on my Kioti are simply tubular webbing, likely polyester vs nylon (since polyester has a higher ignition temperature)
example (it's available many places) 2" White Polyester Tubular Webbing

 

[joea99]

what lines are getting this hot @joea99 ? Just checking we're talking about a "normal" mobile system like a tractor.

The max fluid temp in a normal tractor system is not that hot as even plastics go (your skin ... not so tough! )

The "hose protectors" that came on my Kioti are simply tubular webbing, likely polyester vs nylon (since polyester has a higher ignition temperature)
example (it's available many places) 2" White Polyester Tubular Webbing

One is the "tank" return, the other is the power beyond line. What burns me are the steel fittings that go into the valve. Only after working the implement, in this case a box blade, a lot while "fixing" washouts in the road.

I don't know that I'd get a serious burn if I reacted slowly, but it sure makes me jump when I do it. Could be if I wore long sleeves I'd not react like that.


Something like what you show is what I was thinking, but, in black.

 

[rScotty]

Mine doesn't get hot. Warm is about all. But for abrasion protection I bought braided hose sleeve in a couple of 20 foot rolls on Amazon. I think it was 1" ID. Not sure on the size, but think so. Anyway, just get it big enough inside diameter to slide over the fittings on at least one end of each hose you are going to cover. Use zip ties to hold it in place.

I learned to cut the hose sleeve longer so that it would also cover the metal fittings on the ends of the hoses. The zip ties work better when tightening over the metal fittings anyway.

BTW, just how hot does your hydraulic fluid get? Ever measured it? Hydraulic fluid has a definite high temperature rating & lower than I thought it would be when I looked it up. The fluid ages more quickly when it gets hot. It's worth checking the specs on whatever brand of fluid you use and make sure it is good for higher temperatures.

It also wouldn't hurt to cool the fluid down a bit. Cooler would be good for everything & last longer. It might be reasonable to improve the cooling airflow over the radiator or add more radiator or make whatever changes seem best.

 

[joea99]

Mine doesn't get hot. Warm is about all. But for abrasion protection I bought braided hose sleeve in a couple of 20 foot rolls on Amazon. I think it was 1" ID. Not sure on the size, but think so. Anyway, just get it big enough inside diameter to slide over the fittings on at least one end of each hose you are going to cover. Use zip ties to hold it in place.

I learned to cut the hose sleeve longer so that it would also cover the metal fittings on the ends of the hoses. The zip ties work better when tightening over the metal fittings anyway.

BTW, just how hot does your hydraulic fluid get? Ever measured it? Hydraulic fluid has a definite high temperature rating & lower than I thought it would be when I looked it up. The fluid ages more quickly when it gets hot. It's worth checking the specs on whatever brand of fluid you use and make sure it is good for higher temperatures.

It also wouldn't hurt to cool the fluid down a bit. Cooler would be good for everything & last longer. It might be reasonable to improve the cooling airflow over the radiator or add more radiator or make whatever changes seem best.

Do you have hydrostatic or gear drive? Mine is hydro and a shared hydraulic system, so it can get pretty hot at times.

I'll run it later today or tomorrow and try to measure it on the pipe surface.

 

[rScotty]

Do you have hydrostatic or gear drive? Mine is hydro and a shared hydraulic system, so it can get pretty hot at times.

I'll run it later today or tomorrow and try to measure it on the pipe surface.

Ours is a Kubota HST+ with several pumps & moves a lot of fluid around. It does have a fairly large hydraulic radiator up front. I used to run New Holland/Alhambra Multi-G 134 trans/hydraulic fluid for about the first 500 hours. For the next 500 I've been running Kubota SUDT. They seem to be similar fluids - but how would I know?
I do know if mine was running hot I'd want to know exactly what fluid and how hot. It wouldn't put me in panic mode....but might put me in fix it mode

RScotty

 

[joea99]

Ours is a Kubota HST+ with several pumps & moves a lot of fluid around. It does have a fairly large hydraulic radiator up front. I used to run New Holland/Alhambra Multi-G 134 trans/hydraulic fluid for about the first 500 hours. For the next 500 I've been running Kubota SUDT. They seem to be similar fluids - but how would I know?
I do know if mine was running hot I'd want to know exactly what fluid and how hot. It wouldn't put me in panic mode....but might put me in fix it mode

RScotty

I run SUDT in the hydraulics. It has the standard B21 oil cooler.

Guess you bought yours used? Certainly Kubota did not sell it to you with something other than SUDT in it?

 

[rScotty]

It's ancient history, but no....We bought our tractor brand new in 2008. Back then, using other trans/hyd oil instead of Kubota's UDT or Super UDT was common at Kubota dealers because sometimes - not always - the Kubota oils made the HST and hydraulic pump whine so loudly that it was offensive. It was a commonplace problem; you can look at old posts here on TBN.

Switching to another major brand trans/hydraulic oils was known to fix the whining, so some dealers used alternative trans/hydraulic oils. My dealer was real honest about it. He used New Holland Multi-G in all Kubotas simply because it was the best deal he could find on a quality trans/hydraulic oil that would quieten the whining.
He bought it in bulk from NH Ag tractor dealer across the road & even showed me the 50 gal barrels in his shop.

A few years later we found out why in this letter from Corporate Kubota. Warning: it's does not show Corporate Kubota as being very ethical. Quite the opposite. So if your orange hat fits well you might wantto give it a pass.

A few years later, Kubota changed the name from "Super UDT" to "Super UDT2" & swept it all under a rug hoping nobody would notice. If they had simply refunded for the counterfeit Super UDT they sold they could have gotten away with it.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I run SUDT in the hydraulics. It has the standard B21 oil cooler.

Guess you bought yours used? Certainly Kubota did not sell it to you with something other than SUDT in it?

Yes, I guessed that was the case. BTW, we both mean Super UDT2, I think. But nowdays I also call it simply SUDT.

Kubota is top quality equipment - as good or better than half a dozen other top quality brands. But like all of them, when they do something that isn't quite right they aren't adverse to dancing around the issue rather than just owning up and fixing it.

You might want to check some older threads and see if the B21 oil cooler is considered to be adequate and if any changes are offered. I don't know; I've never owned a B21 - or any of that TLB series. But someday I hope to.

rScotty

 

[joea99]

It's ancient history, but no....We bought our tractor brand new in 2008. Back then, using other trans/hyd oil instead of Kubota's UDT or Super UDT was common at Kubota dealers because sometimes - not always - the Kubota oils made the HST and hydraulic pump whine so loudly that it was offensive. It was a commonplace problem; you can look at old posts here on TBN.

Switching to another major brand trans/hydraulic oils was known to fix the whining, so some dealers used alternative trans/hydraulic oils. My dealer was real honest about it. He used New Holland Multi-G in all Kubotas simply because it was the best deal he could find on a quality trans/hydraulic oil that would quieten the whining.
He bought it in bulk from NH Ag tractor dealer across the road & even showed me the 50 gal barrels in his shop.

A few years later we found out why in this letter from Corporate Kubota. Warning: it's does not show Corporate Kubota as being very ethical. Quite the opposite. So if your orange hat fits well you might wantto give it a pass.

A few years later, Kubota changed the name from "Super UDT" to "Super UDT2" & swept it all under a rug hoping nobody would notice. If they had simply refunded for the counterfeit Super UDT they sold they could have gotten away with it.

rScotty


View attachment 761755

Thanks for the information.

However, I don't see that letter as showing Kubota to be unethical at all. Maybe I missed something. It was a 3rd party apparently not associated with Kubota, that did the unethical thing.

Kubota attempted to get a list of customers to contact them and apparently was unsuccessful. No idea how hard they actually tried though.

Maybe there is more to the story?

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for the information.

However, I don't see that letter as showing Kubota to be unethical at all. Maybe I missed something. It was a 3rd party apparently not associated with Kubota, that did the unethical thing.

Kubota attempted to get a list of customers to contact them and apparently was unsuccessful. No idea how hard they actually tried though.

Maybe there is more to the story?

I think you have the story right. You and I differ on interpretation and maybe that is just a bit of generational or regional bias.
Where I come from, What Kubota did is called "passing the buck". I guess holding that opinion shows that I am both old and old-fashioned - which are all true enough. But it used to be considered unethical for a company to let their customers shoulder an entire problem because of something that manufacturers and suppliers both knew was defective. Obviously both the Kubota Corp and Royal Oil knew what they were doing.

The customer is the only one that is blameless here - which is a claim that neither Kubota nor Royal Oil can make - although both are trying.

Kubota could have contacted the customers themselves - that's what I would have expected an ethical company to do when they knew they were selling a defective product. Regardless of whether they did it deliberately or not. They have the largest investment and the most to lose or gain. Might as well sieze the moral high ground....

At least they could have offered to refund money for the unopened containers of counterfeit oil they sold.
They refused to do either. Instead preferring profit as being more important than ethics and morals.

My conclusion on Kubota is: Nice tractors; despicable corporate ethics.

Or maybe I'm just out of date with my pre-21st century corporate ethics. I'll leave that for readers to decide.
rScotty

 

[joea99]

I think you have the story right. You and I differ on interpretation and maybe that is just a bit of generational or regional bias.
Where I come from, What Kubota did is called "passing the buck". I guess holding that opinion shows that I am both old and old-fashioned - which are all true enough. But it used to be considered unethical for a company to let their customers shoulder an entire problem because of something that manufacturers and suppliers both knew was defective. Obviously both the Kubota Corp and Royal Oil knew what they were doing.

The customer is the only one that is blameless here - which is a claim that neither Kubota nor Royal Oil can make - although both are trying.

Kubota could have contacted the customers themselves - that's what I would have expected an ethical company to do when they knew they were selling a defective product. Regardless of whether they did it deliberately or not. They have the largest investment and the most to lose or gain. Might as well sieze the moral high ground....

At least they could have offered to refund money for the unopened containers of counterfeit oil they sold.
They refused to do either. Instead preferring profit as being more important than ethics and morals.

My conclusion on Kubota is: Nice tractors; despicable corporate ethics.

Or maybe I'm just out of date with my pre-21st century corporate ethics. I'll leave that for readers to decide.
rScotty

Got ya. Yeah, I guess it could be seen as "passing the buck". I the Corporate world of today, it seems a mild faux pas. I'm 76, raised in the NE and do remember when some Corporations would show some "stand up ness" when something was iffy.

I tend to get a bit "lawyer-ly, seeing this as Kubota being informed that "a sales person" (presumably NOT a Kubota sales person, but that is uncertain) had sold "him" (presumably the reporting dealer) oil purporting to be Kubota oil.

It is unclear how hard Kubota tried to find the dealers and end customers that might have been affected and what they would have done about it. Since you mentioned this in the context you did, I presume that letter was pretty much the end of it.

I'll have to search for the B21 oil cooler threads. Thanks for the lead.

 

[ruffdog]

Here is some high temperature hose sleeving.

McMaster-Carr

 

[rScotty]

SNIP
I'll have to search for the B21 oil cooler threads. Thanks for the lead.

Yeah. Ancient History; and the dealers had figured out what the fix was before they even knew why.

Before we get too far off track, we need to see what can be done about running that oil a little cooler. I'm assumng that it would be better if it was running at a lower temperature.

 

[joea99]

Yeah. Ancient History; and the dealers had figured out what the fix was before they even knew why.

Before we get too far off track, we need to see what can be done about running that oil a little cooler. I'm assumng that it would be better if it was running at a lower temperature.

I've not found a thing about oil cooler size, or even hot oil regarding the B21.

 

[rScotty]

I've not found a thing about oil cooler size, or even hot oil regarding the B21.

I remember some hot oil issues with some of the B - or maybe it was the BX series. As I recall, they had to do with the position of the oil cooler and an electric? cooling fan. Where is the oil cooler on the B21? BTW, does the B21 shop manual have one of those artist's drawings of the cooling system circulation? That might gain us some insight.

 

[joea99]

I remember some hot oil issues with some of the B - or maybe it was the BX series. As I recall, they had to do with the position of the oil cooler and an electric? cooling fan. Where is the oil cooler on the B21? BTW, does the B21 shop manual have one of those artist's drawings of the cooling system circulation? That might gain us some insight.

It sits in front of the engine radiator and mechanical drive fan. Seems to be "full flow" design.

 

[ruffdog]

Are the radiators clean enough to see light through them?