Load leveler

[TDNelin]

I want to make my loader attachment a self-leveling unit as it raises and lowers. Are plans available? Maybe just the math to figure out how to make it?

 

[mike0000]

I copied the one Kubota sells for my tractor, (L3901).
Pretty simple to copy if you can do a bit of fabrication.

Mike

 

[rScotty]

I copied the one Kubota sells for my tractor, (L3901).
Pretty simple to copy if you can do a bit of fabrication.

Mike

Mike, did you do an article on that fab? I recall several threads on auto-leveling but didn't keep any links. One was on a L39TLB I believe. I confess that I've never studied my own auto leveler to see how it works. Time to hit the books...
rScotty

 

[mike0000]

Mike, did you do an article on that fab? I recall several threads on auto-leveling but didn't keep any links. One was on a L39TLB I believe. I confess that I've never studied my own auto leveler to see how it works. Time to hit the books...
rScotty

No I don’t think I did, I’m away from my tractor but will try to post pictures to this thread once I’m home.

Mike

 

[mike0000]

Here’s what I did, with 1/2” conduit, a solid rod bent at an angle (when bend is centered in eye bolt bucket is level). Eye bolt, a welded on nut/bolt to adjust level indicator rod (Which slides inside conduit). fabricated bracket at bucket.
Pictures

Mike

 

[BukitCase]

So far, all I see is a level INDICATOR - My ancient 580B loader is set up as a true self-leveling bucket - couldn't find a better pic, but the cylinder shown connects to one of the loader lift arms - the tee with two hoses runs to the pair of curl cylinders, and the upper link is maybe 8" away from the loader arm pivot. As the loader lifts and lowers, that extra cylinder acts as a PUMP that either adds or subtracts fluid from the CURL circuit.

So far I can NOT attest to how well it works, as that cylinder is one of 5 I've yet to rebuild and I'm fairly sure it leaks by (the other 4 are on the hoe - machine has 13 cylinders total)

Sorry, couldn't find a pic that shows more of that part... Steve

 

[mike0000]

So far, all I see is a level INDICATOR - My ancient 580B loader is set up as a true self-leveling bucket - couldn't find a better pic, but the cylinder shown connects to one of the loader lift arms - the tee with two hoses runs to the pair of curl cylinders, and the upper link is maybe 8" away from the loader arm pivot. As the loader lifts and lowers, that extra cylinder acts as a PUMP that either adds or subtracts fluid from the CURL circuit.

So far I can NOT attest to how well it works, as that cylinder is one of 5 I've yet to rebuild and I'm fairly sure it leaks by (the other 4 are on the hoe - machine has 13 cylinders total)

Sorry, couldn't find a pic that shows more of that part... Steve

BukitCase, you’re right, I took the thread in a different direction, my mistake.

Mike

 

[BukitCase]

No prob mike, even an indicator beats the crap outa guess-work; I found that out the hard way, decades ago on my little Oliver crawler loader - seeing the load end up on the ground isn't a very useful "indicator"

Since the only "orange" tractor I'm likely to have is my Allis 160, I know exactly SQUAT about any auto-level options on Kubota that could be "xerox-engineered", but will be watching this thread with interest... Steve

 

[mike0000]

I appreciate that BukitCase, to be honest I didn’t even know auto-level was a thing.

Mike

 

[rScotty]

I appreciate that BukitCase, to be honest I didn’t even know auto-level was a thing.

Mike

No problem. But self-leveling is a real thing and Kubota does have it on some machines. At least they do on some loaders. Our Kubota M59 has it built in. Fact is, I had forgotten it was there until just last week when I was borrowing a set of SSQA pallet forks.
and my friend said, "Does your Kubota have self-leveling?"
"Well, I think so...", I said......and pushed this lever down by the FEL control and what do you know? It does! Raised and lowered the arms and the forks stayed level.

It doesn't make any sound and no warning light that I saw - but the result is that as the loader arms are raised the forks would stay at the same level without any operator intervention. All the way up and down, same angle.
The only way it can do that is to have some sort of internal cam that automatically changes the amount of fluid in the bucket cylinders as the loader arms go up and down. That has got to be some pretty sophisticated circuitry, and very smoothly like all the M59 hydraulics. No bouncing or hesitation.

With a little experimentation I found that I can override the automatic function with the normal FEL control to change the angle of the forks or bucket. Then it will stay at that new angle all the way up and down.

This will be very handy for serving drinks at tractor parties. I can't wait. It could lift drinks from the ground up to a raised deck without spilling a drop. Better than the rickety stairs. A whole new life for the M59.

rScotty

Hey! My drink tastes like diesel fumes ....

 

[Chewwy]

I want to make my loader attachment a self-leveling unit as it raises and lowers. Are plans available? Maybe just the math to figure out how to make it?

Are you thinking something like the Deere Mechanical Self-Leveling (MSL) Loader option?

 

[rScotty]

Are you thinking something like the Deere Mechanical Self-Leveling (MSL) Loader option?

Self-leveling is pretty sophisticated. There has to be a provision to add and subtract fluid from the curl cylinders as the lift arms go up and down. Kubota makes one, so does JD. I don't know if it is an option or just comes with some loaders.
rScotty

 

[BukitCase]

Yeah, there may be others I'm not familiar with - AFAIK, the 580B may be the only one that used a hydraulic cylinder (unless earlier models had it) - but the later 580C replaced the hydraulic cylinder with a linkage that biased the joystick's curl mechanism - here's a pic of a 580C, the long rod that's attached to the bucket's "bell crank" arms and goes back to the cab area is what replaced the cylinder type. Probably a cost-cutting measure, one less cylinder required

https://www.tractordata.com/industrial-photos/F000/104/104-td4-b01-ext045.jpg

It's conceivable that the later (mechanical) version of self level might be adaptable to other loaders, but it'd sure be an "interesting" project (phrase stolen from a Chinese fortune cookie ) ... Steve

 

[Xfaxman]

Self-leveling is pretty sophisticated. There has to be a provision to add and subtract fluid from the curl cylinders as the lift arms go up and down.

Not if it is mechanical self-leveling: mechanical self-leveling loader - Image Search

 

[Chewwy]

Not if it is mechanical self-leveling:
. . .

That was the reason for my question to the OP. Not a lot of math involved. It’s basically two parallelograms working in concert on each side.

 

[BukitCase]

Right - I saw that concept used to mod a cherry picker to work as a drywall lift; a counterweight at the rear, and the lift arm(s) were long enough to put a sheet about 10 feet up and level... Steve

 

[rScotty]

That was the reason for my question to the OP. Not a lot of math involved. It’s basically two parallelograms working in concert on each side.

It seems the problems are always in the details. For normal loader work we don't want a self leveling bucket; instead, we want adjustable bucket tilt during fill, breakout, lift, and dump.

So the mechanical self-leveling system needs to engage and disengage from the cab...how to do that?
And how to make it adjustable for angles other than horizontal?

A slave cylinder with its own control valve that is worked by a rod to the bucket pivot is one way. Although by the time we hang that much rattling hardware out there on the loader arm, we might as well replace the rod with a simple cam at the lift arm pivot.

 

[Chewwy]

It seems the problems are always in the details. For normal loader work we don't want a self leveling bucket; instead, we want adjustable bucket tilt during fill, breakout, lift, and dump.

So the mechanical self-leveling system needs to engage and disengage from the cab...how to do that?
And how to make it adjustable for angles other than horizontal?

A slave cylinder with its own control valve that is worked by a rod to the bucket pivot is one way. Although by the time we hang that much rattling hardware out there on the loader arm, we might as well replace the rod with a simple cam at the lift arm pivot.

The Deere MSL option can still be used for normal loader work. The hydraulic cylinders can still curl the bucket. Unless manually curling the bucket, the option keeps the bucket in it’s same relative position when being raised or lowered.

Since I don’t do a lot of pallet work I have no use for it. If I did a lot of pallet work I would buy a forklift.

 

[ruffdog]

 

[rScotty]

The Deere MSL option can still be used for normal loader work. The hydraulic cylinders can still curl the bucket. Unless manually curling the bucket, the option keeps the bucket in it’s same relative position when being raised or lowered.

Since I don’t do a lot of pallet work I have no use for it. If I did a lot of pallet work I would buy a forklift.

Then I wonder what's the operational difference between hydraulic and manual self loading? Jd's MSL looks clever enough. There's enough monkey motion going on to warm the heart of any mechanical type. More green paint, too.

Hmm... does the bucket rotate through the same number of degrees as the non-MSL? Roughly 45 degrees curl up and down from horizontal? Lots of rotation is handy too.
rScotty