Three point hitch draft control M4700

[Complete Turf Care]

As I had said earlier once you get the "lowering speed knob" unstuck and that fixed I'm betting the Position Control and Draft Control situation will be much different.

Today, I was able to get the 'lowering speed knob' to turn freely. It wasn't really stuck tight, but it was open all the way.

Unfortunately, this did not resolve the issue. I tried adjusting the lowering knob into many different positions and still could not get the 'position' lever to affect the 3 point hitch in any way at all. Not even the slightest.

I did use this tractor for several hours on last week with a fairly heavy attachment, and it got the job done. I do have more work with this attachment for this week on this tractor, because my Grand L6060 is down with a DPF issue.

 

[JWR]

Today, I was able to get the 'lowering speed knob' to turn freely. It wasn't really stuck tight, but it was open all the way.

Unfortunately, this did not resolve the issue. I tried adjusting the lowering knob into many different positions and still could not get the 'position' lever to affect the 3 point hitch in any way at all. Not even the slightest.

I did use this tractor for several hours on last week with a fairly heavy attachment, and it got the job done. I do have more work with this attachment for this week on this tractor, because my Grand L6060 is down with a DPF issue.

I'm surprised. The lowering speed knob is not so loose that it may be doing nothing is it? Does it feels like it is doing something? [Internally I think it is moving a slider against a lobe of a cam-like shaft.]
It's been long enough that I have forgotten -- did you get hold of an operators manual for that tractor ? Anything specific in it about disabling or bypassing draft control? Very puzzling.

If you look at post #41 where you show a picture of the threaded rod, I would think one could just take that threaded rod loose, take it out of the picture and eliminate draft control interference as the cause (OR show that it was the cause.) Easy to try.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I'm surprised. The lowering speed knob is not so loose that it may be doing nothing is it? Does it feels like it is doing something? [Internally I think it is moving a slider against a lobe of a cam-like shaft.]
It's been long enough that I have forgotten -- did you get hold of an operators manual for that tractor ? Anything specific in it about disabling or bypassing draft control? Very puzzling.

If you look at post #41 where you show a picture of the threaded rod, I would think one could just take that threaded rod loose, take it out of the picture and eliminate draft control interference as the cause (OR show that it was the cause.) Easy to try.

The knob does seem to be working. It did change the speed that the attachment drops.
I will try disconnecting the threaded rod. But I think it needs to be connected for things to work at all. I did not try adjusting the threaded rod today, but I expected the position lever to do something today. It did not.

 

[JWR]

The knob does seem to be working. It did change the speed that the attachment drops.
I will try disconnecting the threaded rod. But I think it needs to be connected for things to work at all. I did not try adjusting the threaded rod today, but I expected the position lever to do something today. It did not.

Since the drop speed knob seems work, how did you raise the load in the first place ? If not using the "dead" position control lever it must have been using the Draft control lever.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Since the drop speed knob seems work, how did you raise the load in the first place ? If not using the "dead" position control lever it must have been using the Draft control lever.

Yes. The only way that I have ever been able to raise or lower the attachment is by using the draft control lever.

 

[JWR]

Yes. The only way that I have ever been able to raise or lower the attachment is by using the draft control lever.

Man this intrigues me to death... while something COULD be broke I still bet it is a matter of figuring out how to disable the Draft control & once you do the position control will take over.

 

[npalen]

Is it possible that the draft control and draft control lever locations are mislabled? I know that's a longshot and I know nothing about your tractor but just thought I would throw that "out there".

 

[npalen]

I've noticed the comment a couple times in this discussion saying that draft control won't work if there is loss of traction. This seems like a "chicken or egg" thing to me in that if draft control is set "correctly", loss of traction won't occur. Right?

In other words, when operating in conditions where wheel slippage will occur prior to substantial loss of tractor RPM, the draft control would need to be set so that it starts raising the plow prior to wheel slippage occurring. Right?

 

[LouNY]

The only problem with that is changing field conditions as you cross a field.

 

[npalen]

The only problem with that is changing field conditions as you cross a field.

That's my point! Set the draft control for the WORST condition so you don't spin out. I'm under the impression that draft control is FOR changing field conditions. Probably shouldn't be plowing if there is no traction due to wet conditions, however.

 

[LouNY]

We haven't done moldboard plowing in many years we switched to chisel plows.
But back when the 560 was the big tractor pulling a 4 bottom plow in first gear,
we tried to use draft control and never got it to work satisfactory. The ground around here
is not consistent even in a small field between the hills and stone and clay and wet spots
draft control had the plows all over the place and of course those were trip plows that you had
to stop and back up to reset when you snagged a rock, draft control really sucked then with only
3 bottoms pulling it would try to bury them as you were clutching to stop and reverse to reset and get back lined up
to plow again. Then the next step up was the Ford 8000 with a 5 bottom semi-mount spring reset again draft control
sucked because of varying condition going across the field as well as when a bottom tripped it would start to
lower until it reset then it would start to rise.Possibly in the mid west on flat uniform ground draft control might
work but then you shouldn't need it.
And also if you were getting into hard pulling because of ground compaction from harvesting you don't want plows going
shallow because they are pulling harder.
Chisel plows bring up less stones but pull the same way and have the same issues, draft control would try to raise them
to maintain the same pull and a uniform job of plowing is normally the desired result and draft control wouldn't provide it.
As to not plowing due to wet conditions many areas will have a wet spot or several scattered through a field,
there are not many years when tillage can be delayed untill all the ground is just right to work.

So to keep it short, if the desired result is a uniform tillage depth draft control will not achieve it. If however the desired result is uneven tillage and a uniform tractor load it might work.

Position control with the operator paying attention will provide the best tillage results.

 

[JethroB]

I never could figure out as a teenager how to use draft control to turn land on my dad’s new MF 135. Just learned to ride with my right hand on the position control lever to tweak the 3 point. Learned to ‘sense’ the 3 pt two bottom rollover plow from engine sound, changing ground speed, spinning tires, etc. The rollover was a terrific upgrade but most steering was done with the wheel brakes as the front was very light or in the air.

 

[npalen]

I totally agree on the quality of a plowing job being consistent depth and that was made very clear to me back in the day pulling trailing type plows with no depth control. It was either in the ground completely or out of the ground completely. You pulled on a rope to trip the plow into the ground or raise it out of the ground while moving. If you were in a mudhole and trying to get the dang thing out of the ground, the clutch wheel would slip instead of raising the plow! If a hard spot or a hill was encountered, and there were plenty of them, you shifted down a gear.

I think draft control was invented to deal with the shortcomings of the little Ferguson and Ford tractors. They were really too light to be pulling a moldboard plow at an effective and consistent depth. I recall older brother begging Dad to try the little 8N with its 2-14" 3PH plow along with the other three larger tractors in the field plowing. I can still see it going a little ways, spinning out, brother raising the 3PH to get it going only to spin out again. They even let me try it for a bit and the floorboard was so hot with the muffler underneath, you couldn't leave your foot on it. Dad made us take it back to the house at noon!

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Is it possible that the draft control and draft control lever locations are mislabled? I know that's a longshot and I know nothing about your tractor but just thought I would throw that "out there".

I guess that could be possible, but I don't believe that's what's happening.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Man this intrigues me to death... while something COULD be broke I still bet it is a matter of figuring out how to disable the Draft control & once you do the position control will take over.

I may have time to try disconnecting the threaded rod tomorrow morning.

 

[npalen]

I guess that could be possible, but I don't believe that's what's happening.

If they were labeled incorrectly, the one marked draft control would probably raise and lower the 3PH just as position control normally does. Is there an adjustable stop and, if so, which lever does it control?

Edit: After looking at pics posted above, I don't think they are mislabeled. Sorry.

 

[redman135]

This tractor is 25 years old and may simply have worn internal linkages. Can you bypass the draft control (3ph top-link input)linkage to test things?
On my MF135 the internal linkages wore and resulted in a no lift situation, until I bypassed the draft control input and then have full 3ph lift(carryall on ground(overrloaded) and front wheels in air).

 

[Tuff2799]

I recently purchased a 1997 Kubota M4700
The 3 point hitch has 2 levers. One for position and one for draft control. View attachment 717534
It seems that the position control does nothing. The only way for me to move the 3ph is with the draft control. Is this normal? I'm not familiar with using draft control, but this doesn't seem right.
Also, today, when I went to attach an implement, the arms would not go down. I put both control levers all the way down and stood on the arms, and they would not go down. When I put downward pressure on the arms with my mini excavator, they went down.
Then I was able to attach my implement and lift and lower it with the draft control lever.

Did you ever find out the problem with this

 

[JWR]

That's my point! Set the draft control for the WORST condition so you don't spin out. I'm under the impression that draft control is FOR changing field conditions. Probably shouldn't be plowing if there is no traction due to wet conditions, however.

Draft control is for depth, not traction. The term draft MEANS depth. Yeah, traction may become involved if you are using too light a tractor for the plows you are pulling, but traction is an indirect and separate issue.

 

[LouNY]

Draft control tries to keep a constant pull on the tractor by varying the depth of the pulled implement, with the position control setting the maximum depth for the implement.