Buying Advice SCUT/CUT for a newbie on 2.5 acre 15d slope, what should I think about?

[allthebacon]

Long time listener, first time caller.

After five years man-handling our block with a 54" 25HP Petrol (Gas) 2WD ride-on mower, tow along 'trailer' and hand tools, I need to upgrade and could use your experience.

The problem I need to solve is I'm asking too much of my mower, belts slip or break, 2WD turf tyres are slippy, and I have so much material to move up and down the block, the 'trailer' and shovel aren't cutting it anymore.

I need to mow grass, move material (chips, compost, dirt, firewood, wood rounds) and dig some dirt for landscaping projects. No snow, no crop/ground work. Driveway is paved.

I'm thinking SCUT because of access but also cost. With the implements, Kubota/Kioti/MF SCUT are around $35k AUD ($25k USD) JD even more, and CUTs another $13k w same implements. CUT is hard to justify against renting machinery but if SCUT won't do it, then I'd rather not waste the money. Local dealers tell me SCUT is fine for a sloped property, machine will do the work safely.

I'm not asking which brand to buy, but if you're interested: I'm liking Kioti CS2610 (2 month wait) Kubota BX (5 month wait) I like the MF as well but I just couldn't get comfortable on it. JD is lurking in the background, in stock, but so expensive, 1025R is $10k more than the other three with same implements. All dealers are 30 mins away, offer onsite servicing and are reputable.

I would really appreciate your thoughts with consideration to the slope, if there are any? when buying a tractor.

I don't know what I don't know, but I know it's a lot! If there's something you'd recommend I think about, I'll take that too.

Here's a picture of our place in Australia, 2.5 acres with a pretty consistent 15 degrees (not %) slope.

Thank you.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

If you are going to use a belly mower that you may want to take off for ground clearance when doing other things, consider the JD 1025R with it's drive over auto connect mower deck. If no mower deck then the tractor with the apparent lowest center of gravity. Fifteen degrees is enough to cause stability problems especially with a loader bucket anywhere above a few inches above ground level if you get sideways on it. Compare all the tractors you might be interested in on Tractordata.com looking at the dimensions page to compare weight, width and height. I am not a fan of JD in particular but in this class if a belly mower is in the picture that is the way I would lean. About the third time you work to hook up another manf. belly mower you may start wishing you'd gotten the JD. I'm 70 and the idea of struggling under a tractor to hook anything up is not very appealing at all.

 

[allthebacon]

If you are going to use a belly mower that you may want to take off for ground clearance when doing other things, consider the JD 1025R with it's drive over auto connect mower deck. If no mower deck then the tractor with the apparent lowest center of gravity. Fifteen degrees is enough to cause stability problems especially with a loader bucket anywhere above a few inches above ground level if you get sideways on it. Compare all the tractors you might be interested in on Tractordata.com looking at the dimensions page to compare weight, width and height. I am not a fan of JD in particular but in this class if a belly mower is in the picture that is the way I would lean. About the third time you work to hook up another manf. belly mower you may start wishing you'd gotten the JD. I'm 70 and the idea of struggling under a tractor to hook anything up is not very appealing at all.

Thanks mate, yes my intention is to use a belly mower. I reckon I’ll be swapping implements once or twice a month.

 

[Wagtail]

G'day Cobber and welcome to TBN from Tassie.

I agree with 3HR on going with a SCUT for your property. I'd love to spruik JD (and I would) but the truth is that you need to listen to the 'word in the paddock/pub' as to who are the best, supportive, Dealerships by reputation. In my case, here in Tas, JD constantly came up trumps.

Wherever you are could be different as there really is one Dealership per 'colour' down here and, because of that, reputation is king. Sales is only one part of the equation (if they're good, they'll sell you the tractor that you need, not what's on the lot), it's a supportive Service/Parts Department that is best.

When you do go to check out what's on offer, you need to sit and, hopefully, operate the tractor. IOW, how does it 'fit' and feel to you. You'll be surprised at some of the differences, especially the FWD/REV pedal arrangements on the various makes/models.

Tyre-wise, with a 15degree slope, I'd be looking at an R4.

 

[redman135]

Points to ponder:
1) ERGONOMICS, they matter. It will help short listing just by removing an ergonomicly uncomfortable tractor. Wagtail is very right about the surprising variation you will find.
2) Tyres, go Ag type as they deal with wet/slippery ground better.
3) Track, Get adjustable rims, tractors are default narrow , you want a wide squat stance for stability.
4) Loader , how high do you want to lift? LIFT CAPASITY : ASK where it is measured from. Measured 500 mm infront of bucket pins = good real world lift indicator. Measured from Bucket pins then is artificialy "good" and will likely be disapointing in real world situations.
ALSO: get 3rd service on purchase. Is cheaper than retro fitting, AND go for the large capacity hydraulic pump if possible, as it is good future proofing.
5)Most manufacturers have a budget and premium model in most sizes, so try both.
6) Tractor should have CAT 1, 3point linkage/3 point hitch, this will give you the widest range of impliment choice. Tractors below this are CAT 0 and have relitivly limited impliment choice. Cat 2 tractors are 60 hp up and to big for your situation.
7) SAFETY, Drive with the loader low to the ground ESPESIALLY when turning across a slope. A raised bucket raises the centre of gravity and makes it easy to roll the tractor SLOPED OR FLAT.
Good Luck and let us know which way you jump.
PS feel free to ask questions, there will be someone who can help.

 

[Torvy]

1st off, welcome to (participation in) the forum. Always good to have more voices.

All I would add is vis-a-vis the belly mower...see if you can test the on-off process with all brands you consider. $10k is an awful lot for convenience. I'm a big fan of 1st hand knowledge.

 

[allthebacon]

one Dealership per 'colour' down here and, because of that, reputation is king

Thanks for the welcome mate. I'm up in VIC, not far (enough) from the city, so we're a bit lucky with dealer access but you're not wrong about one-horse towns. Chainsaws for example, when we moved here, I learnt the correct answer is Stihl, from our Arbourists to our fire brigades and the local dealer, who's quite good, contributes to that.

This week I sat in a few tractors Kubota, Kioti, MH, Bobcat (not on my shortlist) and you're right, as Dennis Denuto said 'it's the vibe of the thing'

I'll take your tip on the R4 tyres. Done.

 

[allthebacon]

Loader , how high do you want to lift?

ALSO: get 3rd service on purchase. Is cheaper than retro fitting

Thanks redman,
Most of the time just high enough for ground clearance transport from one spot to another. But if I could get firewood up to 127cm/50inch high then I could dump it in the back of my ute and save some trips.

I was planning on a 3rd service on the front for a 4-in-1 bucket. Is that what you mean, or did you mean 3rd service on the back, or something else?
Cheers

 

[RjCorazza]

Since you are specifically asking about the 15 degree slope, I will add that loaded rear tires would be a good idea. Wider footprint had already been mentioned, which is also a real good idea.
While 4 in 1 buckets are a real convenience, keep in mind that the extra weight of this bucket will count against your lifting capacity.
Happy tractor shopping!

 

[pokey1416]

Price might be a little high but these little machines are amazing, especially on slopes. VENTRAC AUSTRALIA NEW WEBSITE |

 

[hornett22]

Kioti ck2610

 

[kenmbz]

I have 6.3 acres and some areas that slope more or less like yours, just not consistently.
I added spacers to the rear wheels and have a backhoe or flail on the back for weight, which is required for loader work.
I agree get third function for FEL and any attachments with the tractor since you have more bargaining power.

Jobs first, dealer second and then pricing.

My SCUT will do most everything the CUT will do, only slower and needs more patience.
But I can fit in the woods where my neighbor's CUT can't.

in the pricing and dealer phase, definitely try them out. Fit and controls are important.
There were some I liked, some I hated. What I got has mostly worked except the armrests which I rarely use.

I did not like the plastic hood tractors, watch these forums to see how many if us have dented the hood.

Good hunting !

 

[Egon]

Just get the one that gives proper vibes when you sit on it.

 

[allthebacon]

I will add that loaded rear tires would be a good idea.

Will do mate, thanks. I'll also be using ballast weights as needed.

 

[allthebacon]

Price might be a little high but these little machines are amazing, especially on slopes. VENTRAC AUSTRALIA NEW WEBSITE

They do look mighty... but... no dealer in my state and their website doesn't list any dealers at all. I've left a voicemail for em, ya never know, but without local support, it's unlikely. Shame cause I love an ugly but useful machine.

 

[allthebacon]

15 degree slope, I will add that loaded rear tires would be a good idea. Wider footprint

Thanks mate, it's taken a couple weeks for me to get around to dealers (stock shortages) and the word on the street is water for rear tyres 'cause we're tight arses and it doesn't get that cold here. I also asked about spacers and the Kubota dealers won't sell them as they void warranty. Nothing stopping me from DIY. Cheers

 

[allthebacon]

My SCUT will do most everything the CUT will do, only slower and needs more patience.

I've kept this comment in my pocket every time I'm tempted to bump up to CUT. If I stick to SCUT I get a happy wife as I stay within budget and I get better access to smaller spots. It'll do most everything, only slower, and that's fine with me.

 

[allthebacon]

Just get the one that gives proper vibes when you sit on it.

Thanks to everyone who said something like this. It's taken me to two weeks to finally put my arse on the four options as there isn't much stock around. But the vibe of the tractor is a real thing. Can't explain it, ergonomics perhaps, all good tractors but:

1st Kubota BX23S (not sure sure about pedal)
1st Kioti CS2610 (not so sure about FEL joystick location)
3rd JD 1025R
4th Massey GC17xx which I just couldn't get comfortable on

Interestingly to me, the dealer experience is also quite different.

1st Kubota / Conversational, lots of questions back and forth, showed me their workshop
2nd Massey Ferguson / This guy knew both our land & soil type and his tractors. Lots of small feature details that he compared with other brands fairly, small workshop as they do mostly mobile servicing now.
3rd Kioti / It was fine. I think because the dealer represents at least six brands of machinery, it's a bit more like a store than a dealer.
4th JD / Went to two dealers, felt like commissioned salesmen. Neither guy showed me their workshop and neither did they have experience with tractors. I had to explain to them their 3rd party FEL 4:1 Bucket wasn't Quick Attach, the other JD dealer tried to talk me into a 3pt Hitch Backhoe as equally good but cheaper than frame-mounted. Both dealerships are part of a chain which has just been bought out by Brandt so maybe they'll sort that out.

One thing I found amusing is that all three of the other brands had little stabs at JD.

Pricing with 4:1 Bucket FEL, MMM, Backhoe and Caryall
MH - $32k AUD (22k USD)
Kioti - $33k AUD (23k USD)
Kubota - $37k AUD (26k USD)
JD - $45k AUD (32k USD)


I've landed on the two oranges and now it's just a matter of lead times, seems to be 2-6 month waits.

Thanks all for the help, the 15 Degree slope didn't seem to be that big of a deal, especially on a mostly cleared block like mine.

Happy Tractoring

 

[jyoutz]

Thanks to everyone who said something like this. It's taken me to two weeks to finally put my arse on the four options as there isn't much stock around. But the vibe of the tractor is a real thing. Can't explain it, ergonomics perhaps, all good tractors but:

1st Kubota BX23S (not sure sure about pedal)
1st Kioti CS2610 (not so sure about FEL joystick location)
3rd JD 1025R
4th Massey GC17xx which I just couldn't get comfortable on

Interestingly to me, the dealer experience is also quite different.

1st Kubota / Conversational, lots of questions back and forth, showed me their workshop
2nd Massey Ferguson / This guy knew both our land & soil type and his tractors. Lots of small feature details that he compared with other brands fairly, small workshop as they do mostly mobile servicing now.
3rd Kioti / It was fine. I think because the dealer represents at least six brands of machinery, it's a bit more like a store than a dealer.
4th JD / Went to two dealers, felt like commissioned salesmen. Neither guy showed me their workshop and neither did they have experience with tractors. I had to explain to them their 3rd party FEL 4:1 Bucket wasn't Quick Attach, the other JD dealer tried to talk me into a 3pt Hitch Backhoe as equally good but cheaper than frame-mounted. Both dealerships are part of a chain which has just been bought out by Brandt so maybe they'll sort that out.

One thing I found amusing is that all three of the other brands had little stabs at JD.

Pricing with 4:1 Bucket FEL, MMM, Backhoe and Caryall
MH - $32k AUD (22k USD)
Kioti - $33k AUD (23k USD)
Kubota - $37k AUD (26k USD)
JD - $45k AUD (32k USD)


I've landed on the two oranges and now it's just a matter of lead times, seems to be 2-6 month waits.

Thanks all for the help, the 15 Degree slope didn't seem to be that big of a deal, especially on a mostly cleared block like mine.

Happy Tractoring

I find it interesting that your experience with the JD dealer is similar to my experience with the local JD dealer. Take it or leave it and don’t ask too many questions.

 

[Wagtail]

I find it interesting that your experience with the JD dealer is similar to my experience with the local JD dealer. Take it or leave it and don’t ask too many questions.

And yet it is the exact opposite to my experience to my JD Dealership.

Dealerships are 'local', no matter where you are in the world. If a tractor dealership decides to go 'Corporate', they're doomed IMHO.