Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Torvy]

I'm not sure this is a problem...

It is a huge problem. The social safety net programs that most of the industrialized world use are predicated on an ever growing population. There will literally not be enough people working to support the system, even at 100% taxation. This will be a life changer long before any environmental externalities become catastrophic. We cannot really debate the pros and cons of those programs here and, frankly, those points would be moot anyway.

Even without the social program issues, there will simply not be enough working aged people to do the jobs necessary to enjoy life as we know it. I'm talking about basics here, not just luxury. The economic ramifications could easily lead to violence and war as cultures struggle to cope with the population inversion.

 

[PuffyC]

It is a huge problem. The social safety net programs that most of the industrialized world use are predicated on an ever growing population. There will literally not be enough people working to support the system, even at 100% taxation. This will be a life changer long before any environmental externalities become catastrophic. We cannot really debate the pros and cons of those programs here and, frankly, those points would be moot anyway.

Even without the social program issues, there will simply not be enough working aged people to do the jobs necessary to enjoy life as we know it. I'm talking about basics here, not just luxury. The economic ramifications could easily lead to violence and war as cultures struggle to cope with the population inversion.

It’s bad for the economy, great for the environment. But it’s inevitable either way. You see it across all societies once they advance enough. In the beginning people have a ton of kids for a variety of reasons, then as those societies mature they have less and less until populations actually begin to decrease. That’s a big reason a lot of people get behind immigration here in the US. From an economic standpoint you really need to have a population that is increasing or you stop growing and that creates some problems that are very difficult to solve. Japan has been struggling with it for decades, even going so far as negative interest rates, but nothing seems to help.

 

[Torvy]

It’s bad for the economy, great for the environment. But it’s inevitable either way. You see it across all societies once they advance enough. In the beginning people have a ton of kids for a variety of reasons, then as those societies mature they have less and less until populations actually begin to decrease. That’s a big reason a lot of people get behind immigration here in the US. From an economic standpoint you really need to have a population that is increasing or you stop growing and that creates some problems that are very difficult to solve. Japan has been struggling with it for decades, even going so far as negative interest rates, but nothing seems to help.

I agree, to a point. The tipping point has almost arrived at a global level. Population numbers, even in developing countries will not be enough. Immigration squabbles that we once almost the exclusive domain of the US, have become a problem all over. Countries who had too few children to maintain... Like France, for example... They need immigration, but that creates social discord as those immigrants do not share a cultural background. That issue will become background noise as we will, in the not too distant future, have too few births worldwide to maintain society as we know it. Most likely result will be akin to lawlessness as people scramble to maintain a hold on civilization.

Fewer people overall is probably a good thing, but it would be better if that transition was much slower.

 

[cqaigy2]

I've been interested in EVs for a second vehicle since Mother Earth News ran an article on how to convert a conventional auto way back in the last century. Now companies like Ford are making that easier... Ford’s Already Out of $3,900 Electric Crate Motors

Man, that's much cheaper than the Tesla crate motor!. My BIL is thinking of putting one in a 66 Ford Bronco, that currently has a stinky 6 cyl. 170CCinch engine in it.

 

[Jstpssng]

Man, that's much cheaper than the Tesla crate motor!. My BIL is thinking of putting one in a 66 Ford Bronco, that currently has a stinky 6 cyl. 170CCinch engine in it.

It's the motor only though, you still need to pick up batteries and a lot of other items.

This
Ford Turned a Vintage F-100 Into Its Newest Electric Truck for SEMA looks different. I enjoy reading about this type of conversion just as I do reading about somebody building a hotrod or rock crawler... not necessarily my cup of tea but it's fun to see what people are capable of doing.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Man, that's much cheaper than the Tesla crate motor!. My BIL is thinking of putting one in a 66 Ford Bronco, that currently has a stinky 6 cyl. 170CCinch engine in it.

All '66 in line American sixes I'm aware of were great, whether Rambler (AMC), Chrysler, Ford, G.M.
Indestructible. Fifty five year old Bronco still going!

 

[cqaigy2]

All '66 in line American sixes I'm aware of were great, whether Rambler (AMC), Chrysler, Ford, G.M.
Indestructible. Fifty five year old Bronco still going!

With 3 on the tree. This early fall, I was driving chauffer for two of my sisters, oldest and youngest. They were in the back bench seat yakking away at each other, while i was driving around town. Making sweet memories as my youngest sis is very sick. It is my youngest sister's Bronco. My dad bought one in 65, the first one had a problem and Ford sent a truck up from Detroit to pick it up and sent a second one to him that he used for years. He was a practicing veterinarian, and that Bronco got him to places nobody else could get to.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

All '66 in line American sixes I'm aware of were great, whether Rambler (AMC), Chrysler, Ford, G.M.
Indestructible. Fifty five year old Bronco still going!

Some of the 8s were great too. I drove a '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.2L (Chrysler 318) for 350,000 miles. It was still running fine when I sold it. The first 318 came off the line in '64. Great engine.

 

[goeduck]

The world should have had that "problem" a century ago. Thanks to mechanization, automation, and robotics, the human race doesn't need an endless supply of labor.

^^^^ Well said. Nothing but earth's method of population control in this finite world. Does any thinking person think the current growth can continue forever?

 

[Oaktree]

All '66 in line American sixes I'm aware of were great, whether Rambler (AMC), Chrysler, Ford, G.M.
Indestructible. Fifty five year old Bronco still going!

I dunno on the Ford sixes...when I was in school had a Falcon with the 170/3 in the tree. OK on gas, but couldn't get out of it's own way.
Couldn't kill the Chrysler slant 6s, not sure I'd want one in a big boat like a Fury though (and they were the base engine).

Some of the 8s were great too. I drove a '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.2L (Chrysler 318) for 350,000 miles. It was still running fine when I sold it. The first 318 came off the line in '64. Great engine.

+1 on the 318s. '68/69 was the first I was aware of them, I thought the 272 was Chrysler's small V8 before that.

 

[Doughknob]

^^^^ Well said. Nothing but earth's method of population control in this finite world. Does any thinking person think the current growth can continue forever?

What is definition of 'growth'?

I think growth can continue forever..... just maybe 'different' growth than what you are thinking of.

Haven't we -as a species- been growing forever already??

 

[lman]

I see growing prices for necessary items, while my pension is not growing at that rate.

 

[Doughknob]

I see growing prices for necessary items, while my pension is not growing at that rate.

So what are you going to do about it?

 

[lman]

Keep working my job after retirement and vote.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

What is definition of 'growth'?

I think growth can continue forever..... just maybe 'different' growth than what you are thinking of.

Haven't we -as a species- been growing forever already??

Historically different human populations have expanded and went extinct over the pass 200K years of modern human history. Volcanoes, ice ages, floods, wars, pandemics, etc impacts are clear from physical and written histories.

Human freedom is a rare bird. I grew up listening to people singing about people selling their souls to the company store for example.

Just like when tractors and trucks came available most people couldn't afford them. Some would badmouth that paradigm shift yet others were motivated to save so they could become part of the paradigm shift. Often it was even a family or community effort.

As we can read here paradyme shift responses are predicable. Tractors did 'not' save the world but they help us feed more soldiers to fight bigger wars but that fact did not make tractors evil.

EVs will 'not' save the world. EVs are evolving today just like tractors and trucks did 100 years ago because they make more financial sense for many people.

We don't advance as a society listening to people with limited vision and knowledge. Until two years ago I never realized I could own an EV with a new battery with 150 miles of range for less than $14K that cost 3 cents per mile to fuel.

EVs make $$$ and sense to more and more today yet I am forced when driving my EV to avoid crashing into a horse drawn buggy or wagon carrying small children with NO slow moving sign especially after dark.

 

[3930dave]

EVs make $$$ and sense to more and more today yet I am forced when driving my EV to avoid crashing into a horse drawn buggy or wagon carrying small children with NO slow moving sign especially after dark.

I have the same problem. Not with horse and buggy though (last one I saw had not only an SMV sign, but the SMV was totally bordered by functioning red LEDs. Looked sharp, on an enclosed black buggy), but rather modern vehicles with digital dashes.

I see way too many of those ^, running well past dusk or the middle of the night with zero exterior lights on.

I that case, Lights are Off AND Nobody's Home. Humans !

Rgds, D.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I had a repair business for 43 years, retired over 7 years ago. It dawned on me a quote I thought of one day: "Today's new and improved is tomorrow's junk".
If you really think about it, and I don't mean go to a dealership looking at "all the shiny pretty 'creature comfort' vehicles", especially with some salesman telling you how great it is, how non-polluting it is; lots of things aren't all that great.
I'm not saying mankind should have stopped progress before the industrial revolution, but the only way new things are purchased is by embracing it believing old is bad new is good.
Maybe let the new buyers be the guinea pigs until bugs are ironed out and prices drop.
Personally I'd prefer choices. If I want a diesel tractor and gas 2 stroke chainsaw in 2036 it should be available.
Infrastructure spending is great for some things (I'm apolitical) but shouldn't be forced on taxpayers who don't want it.
Someone posted this picture on another forum of wind turbine blades being buried by a bulldozer (frame of size reference) so everything has a cost, one energy source creates pollution somewhere else. Recycling causes pollution and takes energy.
There's no free lunch. People, everyone should consider all aspects whether consumers, politicians, voters...everyone before believing something is so great or the solution to a problem.

 

[metalbender]

So GM has 68,000 non recyclable batteries to dispose of. Anybody heard of their plans for this GREEN ENERGY ???