Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

MSN

If you can sit through the long commercial...

One or more parties seem to be author of this confusion. In time the facts may or may not come out.

Since Hertz states they are receiving Tesla's that would indicate that Tesla has received some kind of payment if there is no contract maybe they're just ordering these just like everybody else paying retail price maybe they just going online and ordered but see this deal has been going on for many months so who knows.

 

[airbiscuit]

The demand for those Teslas at Hertz is going to be crazy! Smart move on their part.

 

[ericm979]

Are we simply displacing pollution from the exhaust pipe to the power stations?
(Other than Colorado river dams and Canadian rivers)

Yes but it's easier and cheaper to make a small number of huge power plants more efficient and pollute less than to put pollution controls on every single vehicle.

As more solar is installed there will be more zero pollution electricity. Don't even start with the "mining for solar panel minerals causes environmental harm" because oil drilling and transporting causes a lot of pollution. Deep Horizons, Exxon Valldez, etc etc too many to name. Not to mention the huge amount of methane (a greenhouse gas 50x worse than CO2) released as a drilling byproduct. Mining is green in comparison.

It's not like we have to have a perfectly complete system and answers to every conceivable problem before we can start doing anything. We didn't have a complete oil and fuel distribution system when we started making gasoline cars. We didn't have a complete electrical grid when Edison lit the first bulb. We made it up as we went along.

I get not liking change; I'm not enthused about electric cars either. But for most people cars are transportation, and for most people the lower maintenance and costs of an electric make sense.

 

[Jstpssng]

Don't even start with the "mining for solar panel minerals causes environmental harm" because oil drilling and transporting causes a lot of pollution. Deep Horizons, Exxon Valldez, etc etc too many to name. Not to mention the huge amount of methane (a greenhouse gas 50x worse than CO2) released as a drilling byproduct.

The question on the table though is whether we are simply trading one problem for another. If that answer is yes, wouldn't it make more sense to look for real solutions instead? We can start by keeping our problems in country, where we control them rather than sending them off to some third world country or someplace which is fundamentally against us.

 

[RoyJackson]

Yes but it's easier and cheaper to make a small number of huge power plants more efficient and pollute less than to put pollution controls on every single vehicle.

Tell that to the Chinese, Indians (as in India) and, most likely, the Russians...
China and India are responsible (so I've read)for >25% of the pollutants including CO2

 

[MossRoad]

Tell that to the Chinese, Indians (as in India) and, most likely, the Russians...
China and India are responsible (so I've read)for >25% of the pollutants including CO2

The U.S. still pollutes more per person than any of those countries. Gotta keep that in mind, too. It's gonna be a balancing act between amount of pollutants, amount of people, who gets to consume how much, etc.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

and for most people the lower maintenance and costs of an electric make sense.

Except it’s higher. It will always get higher.

I remember when my landline phone was an ungodly $20 month. Cell phone industry said, we will be cheaper. It didn’t. Now I get to pay over $200 month for phone service.

Yea, don’t compare mining vs drilling, lol. What a joke.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

GM Storing Unfinished Trucks In Muddy Field, Moving Them With Forklifts & Bulldozers - GM-Trucks.com

I think some 2021 trucks may be had at a steep discount.

Just the GM's get treated like that...

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The question on the table though is whether we are simply trading one problem for another. If that answer is yes, wouldn't it make more sense to look for real solutions instead? We can start by keeping our problems in country, where we control them rather than sending them off to some third world country or someplace which is fundamentally against us.

We’re not trading one problem for another, the problem just gets worse.

 

[goeduck]

The U.S. still pollutes more per person than any of those countries. Gotta keep that in mind, too. It's gonna be a balancing act between amount of pollutants, amount of people, who gets to consume how much, etc.

Maybe, but not being at the table is a bigger, way, way bigger issue.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

We’re not trading one problem for another, the problem just gets worse.

Were you born optimistic or just got that way over time?

 

[3930dave]

EV's..... Going to The Dogs.....

Dog takes golf cart for a ride in Manitoba, crashes into truck

Rgds, D.

 

[RoyJackson]

EV's..... Going to The Dogs.....

Dog takes golf cart for a ride in Manitoba, crashes into truck

Rgds, D.

That was sweet...funny...
He's a GOOD BOY!!!!
Not so hot at driving though!!!

 

[Jstpssng]

That dog could become a poster child for self driving cars.

 

[DieselBound]

Are you still going to buy into your narrative after you push crude over two hundred dollars then beyond?

The babyboomers have been giving and giving but now we're taking and taking so now we are short on everything except yak.

Crude is going to be what it'll be: note that it's not PRICE, but affordability- if you want me to explain this I will. I've got ZERO control over that. And, what are you going to do with the bulk of humanity which cannot, and never will, be able to afford PVs and such?

I totally agree that consumption has to drop. I don't agree that manufacturing increasingly more EVs is the way to do that.

 

[3930dave]

I totally agree that consumption has to drop. I don't agree that manufacturing increasingly more EVs is the way to do that.

While I may not agree with the tactic, I do see it's potential....

Diminish or eradicate ICE production.

Push oil costs high. (This tactic alone has a huge impact). Oil cost increases hammer the whole economy, far beyond just Transportation.

Continue to limit alternate transportation options, and where do we end up ?

Elites driving Teslas and other Super-EVs. If the Chinese are not allowed to flood our domestic markets here with cheap EVs, then us peasants will have to adjust to walking, or $10+/gallon gasoline. Given the small % of the population @ Elite level, overall consumption will take a hit.

If/when oil consumption does get pushed down significantly, I can see consumption taking a second hit..... from the new taxes brought in, to replace lost carbon-fuel taxes.

So.... EVs driving down consumption.... it may Have Legs ! Or, am I just fixated on my future transportation option ?

Rgds, D.

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[Jstpssng]

THIS is the narrative I would like to revisit in a year, if projected oil prices come true.

Foil hats are so old school anyways... I got my indoctrination with my COVID shots.

 

[DieselBound]

While I may not agree with the tactic, I do see it's potential....

Diminish or eradicate ICE production.

Push oil costs high. (This tactic alone has a huge impact). Oil cost increases hammer the whole economy, far beyond just Transportation.

Continue to limit alternate transportation options, and where do we end up ?

Elites driving Teslas and other Super-EVs. If the Chinese are not allowed to flood our domestic markets here with cheap EVs, then us peasants will have to adjust to walking, or $10+/gallon gasoline. Given the small % of the population @ Elite level, overall consumption will take a hit.

If/when oil consumption does get pushed down significantly, I can see consumption taking a second hit..... from the new taxes brought in, to replace lost carbon-fuel taxes.

So.... EVs driving down consumption.... it may Have Legs ! Or, am I just fixated on my future transportation option ?

Rgds, D.

Dave,

I think that no matter what, consumption drops. I only advocate for less marketing hype (and more reasoning of what changes are proposed). And I'll state it again, if society is serious about these things then it can ONLY happen with actual leadership (people who set the example). If they can do that, and we have a good plan/story (as in an ability to communicated to everyone) then the forces that would look to stop such (again, I am NOT one of them- anyone brave enough to test me on this go right ahead) will, as they should, fail.

The essence of the climate issue is bigger than most folks can imagine. And it's NOT going to be resolved by reducing green house gases. Will such actions be an improvement on the SPEED of the trajectory? Yes. Will it, no matter how much we alter our own activities, alter the trajectory? No. If people put on their farmer hats (I'd think there are plenty enough of such folks around) we would see that TOP SOIL is extremely important. Not only is it important for food crops but for vegetation as a whole. John D. Hammaker wrote "The Survival Of Civilization," in which he noted the earth's cycles and that at best we could only hope to delay the oncoming next glacial period (we are in the more brief period known as the "inter-glacial period"), we could not stop it. The reason has to do with top soil loss. Top soil is still on the planet, of course, it's that it no longer resides on our land masses- it ends up in the oceans. Humans have helped expedite what is a natural process that occurs from rain. Eventually there's a regeneration of our top soils via glacial tilling. Yes, the earth is its own farmer! Hammaker had the idea of postponing the next glacial period via restoring top soil via spreading rock dust on our lands, essentially doing what glaciers do (though the scale could only be smaller); I struggled to find any equation that would cover the energy issues associated with this activity of smashing rocks and spreading the dust around, CO2 released in the prrocess, so I figure this will go nowhere (even though the premise has viable legs, more legs than saving ourselves by converting to EVs- sorry, but that's the stark facts here).

The powers that be have hinted at the future:
This Seed Bank in the Arctic Holds More Than 1 Million Seeds
The Great Reset

I figure The Great Reset is about calming everyone down as things fall apart: COVID-19 was a primer (it provided for the test-run). The seed bank can be seen as our actual space ship into the future: an attempt to ensure that genetic materials can come out the other side (of the glacial period); whether this is the intent or not I do not know, but the premise still holds that it could serve this purpose as an attempt at such.

This is the last post I'll make in this thread. I'll say that I have no beef with enthusiasm, but will note that the road to H-E-double-hockey-sticks is paved with good intentions. If you don't know what the real problem is then you have no chance in solve the problem that you think it is... Oh, and be ever-aware of human hubris.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Australia considering more than 100 fossil fuel projects that could produce 5% of global industrial emissions

I think more people realize renewable energy is not here just yet and that it is going to take lots of fossil fuel to enable the creation of renewables to power our world and that will be years and decades down the road.