Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[3930dave]

EV battery health is about the only important EV concern in my view and that concern drops in each new model year.

ICE engines are relatively easy for a competent mechanic to evaluate.

Insane Mode + Ultra-Fast Charge ?

I'd like to have access to the data (I'm sure T does) concerning what % of time the HV pack spends in those high-current conditions, and others like Towing etc...

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Bolt 'hill mode' isn't a thermal issue, rather, the driver should expect regenerative braking to work the same under all conditions. But the Bolt's regenerative braking disappears if the battery reaches 100%, as it might going down the mountain. Just when you want that braking assist most.

Hill mode, which is not charging to 100% before starting down the mountain, avoids the loss of that braking feature halfway down the grade.

I looked hard at Bolt when they came out. But the lack of cargo capacity and the uneven cargo floor were deal killers. More recently the battery spontaneous fires are a second reason to avoid Bolt until they get that worked out.

Retain one-pedal driving.... got it, thanks.

Second thought... still thermal . Locomotives had/have huge banks of resistors in the roof to handle E braking.... but they'd be a hard sell on the roof of a compact-car.....

Rgds, D.

 

[MossRoad]

My employer is allowing an EV vehicle manufacturer to place recording devices in the ODBII ports on may of their fleet vehicles to gather information about driving data to see if EV's wound be good replacements for the current ICE vehicles. With my short runs and frequent long stops, I wouldn't mind one at all.

 

[Jstpssng]

My employer is allowing an EV vehicle manufacturer to place recording devices in the ODBII ports on may of their fleet vehicles to gather information about driving data to see if EV's wound be good replacements for the current ICE vehicles. With my short runs and frequent long stops, I wouldn't mind one at all.

I don't mind at all when somebody buys me a vehicle, either. I just say "Thank you very much." I put about 30k miles per year on my company truck, and can use it for personal use for less than it costs me to run my own truck.

 

[California]

... Locomotives had/have huge banks of resistors in the roof to handle E braking....

I read that's why you always see a diesel locomotive behind the steam engines that are restored and run on the main lines for publicity. Modern signal electronics could be put on a steam locomotive, and air brake technology hasn't changed, but that resistance braking is needed for safe operation.

 

[MossRoad]

I read that's why you always see a diesel locomotive behind the steam engines that are restored and run on the main lines for publicity. Modern signal electronics could be put on a steam locomotive, and air brake technology hasn't changed, but that resistance braking is needed for safe operation.

In the thread about the Big Boy, I thought it said they put the diesel electric there for the braking to save the brakes on the Big Boy, not so much because it was safer, but because the brakes on the Big Boy would be insanely expensive to replace.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

9 past mistakes offer lessons for today’s hot new automakers

New century Old mistakes?

 

[Grumpycat]

My choice of port-fuel injected gas engine and stick transmission - in that case, none. Present-day GDI and lousy automatics that certain manufacturers produce, I'd assign at least 50% of their value at that point.

I get it, EV'ers want to ignore battery replacement cost, esp. when buying new..... treated like cell phone ownership, it's a non-issue.

An EV @ 100k, I'd allow for 50% of the battery cost.

Rgds, D.

What evidence do you offer in support of your conclusion? You say there is a 50% failure rate at 100,000 miles no matter the cost is 100% covered for 8 years/100,000 miles? Or 10 years/150,000 miles in some states?

Nissan's battery is atypical. And apparently GM is also flying fast and loose with their battery.

Tesla has had battery failures prior to 100,000 miles. But Ford, GM, FCA, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, all have had similar failure rates with engines.

At 8 years my Tesla battery has 95% of it's original capacity.

 

[3930dave]

My employer is allowing an EV vehicle manufacturer to place recording devices in the ODBII ports on may of their fleet vehicles to gather information about driving data to see if EV's wound be good replacements for the current ICE vehicles. With my short runs and frequent long stops, I wouldn't mind one at all.

Know Thy Customer..... sounds like a great way to verify product/application match.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I read that's why you always see a diesel locomotive behind the steam engines that are restored and run on the main lines for publicity. Modern signal electronics could be put on a steam locomotive, and air brake technology hasn't changed, but that resistance braking is needed for safe operation.

Diesel locomotives went hybrid drive long before the term fell into common use..... all they really had to do with the modern (defined) hybrids was allocate space for batteries.

Haven't tried digging for this, but a wild guess would put money on still having resistor load banks on the latest ones..... either that, or they don't run the Rockies, for the reasons you walked us through on the Bolt.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

In the thread about the Big Boy, I thought it said they put the diesel electric there for the braking to save the brakes on the Big Boy, not so much because it was safer, but because the brakes on the Big Boy would be insanely expensive to replace.

Brakes.... interesting topic.

The question I asked in a showroom years back (not really expecting an answer) was "Since hydraulic disc brakes on ICE cars tend to regularly seize up, here in salt-country, has anything different been done with the hybrid's brake design ?". Same question applies for EVs obviously.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

9 past mistakes offer lessons for today’s hot new automakers

New century Old mistakes?

History repeating....

History repeating.....

History repeating.....

Why study History ?

Rgds, D.

 

[Agvg]

Brakes.... interesting topic.

The question I asked in a showroom years back (not really expecting an answer) was "Since hydraulic disc brakes on ICE cars tend to regularly seize up, here in salt-country, has anything different been done with the hybrid's brake design ?". Same question applies for EVs obviously.

Rgds, D.

Brakejobs is bread and butter for workshops, car manufacturers are under pressure from dealers to keep revenue up, some of the EVs has often some ridiculous "services" to keep dealers from getting to upset. Suppose Tesla will be one of the first to find better solutions for brakes, on a EV ordinary brakes will almost be emergency only brakes so it could be made very different.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

What evidence do you offer in support of your conclusion? You say there is a 50% failure rate at 100,000 miles no matter the cost is 100% covered for 8 years/100,000 miles? Or 10 years/150,000 miles in some states?

Nissan's battery is atypical. And apparently GM is also flying fast and loose with their battery.

Tesla has had battery failures prior to 100,000 miles. But Ford, GM, FCA, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, all have had similar failure rates with engines.

At 8 years my Tesla battery has 95% of it's original capacity.

That shows awesome longevity. What is the total miles on your Tesla?

 

[3930dave]

What evidence do you offer in support of your conclusion? You say there is a 50% failure rate at 100,000 miles no matter the cost is 100% covered for 8 years/100,000 miles? Or 10 years/150,000 miles in some states?

Nissan's battery is atypical. And apparently GM is also flying fast and loose with their battery.

Tesla has had battery failures prior to 100,000 miles. But Ford, GM, FCA, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, all have had similar failure rates with engines.

At 8 years my Tesla battery has 95% of it's original capacity.

I'll clarify.

I didn't say anything about failure rate. I said "An EV @ 100k, I'd allow for 50% of the battery cost.".

As in, I would...... not normal behaviour today, as I'm more fiscally conservative than even many of my parent's generation.... so my repair cash is set aside well ahead of time.....

At this point, I view HV packs (assuming no manuf defects) as no more that 200k mile items. I'll modify my gut feel on that as time rolls along.

Never claimed ICE engines as failure free either..... simple supply/ demand works in their favour at the moment.... other than a chronically bad design, the option of get a low-mile used engine from a wrecking yard (rear-end write-off) is viable today.

As EVs get written off in crashes, more HV packs and motors/controllers may be available in a similar fashion, but I expect the availability is low today.

(And No, I'm not saying EV electric motors have high failure rates either).

Rgds, D.

 

[SylvainG]

Brakejobs is bread and butter for workshops, car manufacturers are under pressure from dealers to keep revenue up, some of the EVs has often some ridiculous "services" to keep dealers from getting to upset. Suppose Tesla will be one of the first to find better solutions for brakes, on a EV ordinary brakes will almost be emergency only brakes so it could be made very different.

My user manual says for Maintenance :

Service Intervals
Your vehicle should generally be serviced on an as-needed basis. However, Tesla recommends the following maintenance items and intervals, as applicable to your vehicle, to ensure continued reliability and efficiency of your Model 3.
• Brake fluid health check every 2 years (replace if necessary).
• A/C desiccant bag replacement every 6 years.
• Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter
• Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first

So that's something I'll be doing once a year, in spring when I switch my winter tires for summer one. Like you said, they are used only in emergency situation (like two wolves crossing a road right in front of me last weekend!) so they need to be taken care of.

Unlike my ICE vehicles, I don't have to follow a maintenance schedule for extreme weather (where almost every intervals are half of the normal intervals), which is welcomed.

 

[3930dave]

My user manual says for Maintenance :

Service Intervals
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter

That sounds about right (for all vehicles up here, not just EVs).

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

My user manual says for Maintenance :

Service Intervals


So that's something I'll be doing once a year, in spring when I switch my winter tires for summer one. Like you said, they are used only in emergency situation (like two wolves crossing a road right in front of me last weekend!) so they need to be taken care of.

Diversion.

As in, Power, not Thread wander . When the Bolt hv pack is at 100%, per California's description, electric braking action changes/drops off. (Makes sense to me).

I don't know what Tesla is doing for Power Diversion, understanding it may vary by model and year.

Back-emf from the motors has to be dissipated somewhere when used for braking, so if it's not going into a Full HV pack, what happens on the T's ?

You could direct it towards Cabin Heat, if it's being called for, but other than that..... ____________ ?

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Bill Gates-backed ESS — which makes giant batteries out of iron, salt and water — starts trading

I expect with all the money being poured into renewables solutions by 2030 a lot of things will be solved.

In a change of events I noticed all countries around the world are calling for more coal production. Moving to renewable energy is fine but somebody didn't get the message that you need the replacement for your current energy sources before you change to a new one.

 

[SylvainG]

Diversion.

As in, Power, not Thread wander . When the Bolt hv pack is at 100%, per California's description, electric braking action changes/drops off. (Makes sense to me).

I don't know what Tesla is doing for Power Diversion, understanding it may vary by model and year.

Back-emf from the motors has to be dissipated somewhere when used for braking, so if it's not going into a Full HV pack, what happens on the T's ?

You could direct it towards Cabin Heat, if it's being called for, but other than that..... ____________ ?

Rgds, D.

Regenerative braking is not available or reduced when the battery is close to 100% or if it's too cold.