Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[3930dave]

I tried to say something similar earlier today but had to come back and delete it. This thread is too good to get shut down because I don't know the meaning of the word tact.

Certainly not my intent, as this is a great thread.

A) If Gale or any of the mods consider that post of mine to be seriously inappropriate, just PM me and I'll delete it as soon as I see the PM.

B) While I'd like to be totally wrong, I spent too many decades competing against that country to sugar coat my words.

C) We aren't going to get a fast flip to EVs, esp. low-cost ones, w/o a significant disruption to our domestic industries.

Rgds, D.

 

[Jstpssng]

Certainly not my intent, as this is a great thread.

A) If Gale or any of the mods consider that post of mine to be seriously inappropriate, just PM me and I'll delete it as soon as I see the PM.

B) While I'd like to be totally wrong, I spent too many decades competing against that country to sugar coat my words.

C) We aren't going to get a fast flip to EVs, esp. low-cost ones, w/o a significant disruption to our domestic industries.

Rgds, D.

I meant no disrespect for your post, it was meant as a compliment. My deleted comment is the one which was out of line.

 

[3930dave]

I meant no disrespect for your post, it was meant as a compliment. My deleted comment is the one which was out of line.

No disrespect taken, initially or now.

I posted the offer of deletion out of an abundance of caution - I have no interest in causing threads to be closed.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

This is a hard thread/subject to post by the rules because EVs can be viewed by some to be 10% technical and 90% political. Some don't or can't grasp the subject so post religious stuff.

I have spent 4 hours today trying to understand changing winds in China and their potential impact on EVs and Tesla. I see working fathers in China like most working fathers hoping to give their kids a leg up on life. I am glad I was born in the USA.


I am starting to see Japan as dead in the water when it comes to EVs. OEMs that are 5 years away from producing 2 million EVs annually are at risk of failing with out bailouts from their governments.

It was 2 years ago this month when it hit me that ev's are going to rule the Day come hell or high water and I went out and bought the leaf so I could put my money where my brain was.

The EV thing is happening much faster than I ever dreamed that it would. I went all electric in 1990 when we tore out the flue because it was at the house and getting propane was more of a wild card than I preferred.

I prefer plugging in at home to fuel up the .

There are many reasons why EVs are not for all readers. By 2026 we will have a better idea how things will shake out. Actually earlier this year I was going for a new Forester but the salesman said it had a hold on it so I drove on to Nashville and test drove a new Model Y. Due to physical and mental reasons i need FSD.

Keep sharing thoughts and actions concerning EVs.

 

[airbiscuit]

My kids are millenials. They don't think about EVs as political, environmental or as a status thing. To them it is just "well ya". EVs are just a thing - like the next technology of whatever sort that will come their way. They don't give it a lot of thought, they are just open to it. There will be great gnashing of teeth by us Boomers, but the Milleniels and Gen Y will just adapt and accept.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Has anybody else noticed the EVs on the market really tend toward sedans? EV SUVs seem to be pretty rare, probably because of rolling efficiency. The 4-door F150 Lightning could be the car of the future. How much does that sucker weigh? In my state, passenger plates are only good for 6000 GVW. Put a few bags of cement in the Lightning and you could be over weight.

 

[Agvg]

Has anybody else noticed the EVs on the market really tend toward sedans? EV SUVs seem to be pretty rare, probably because of rolling efficiency. The 4-door F150 Lightning could be the car of the future. How much does that sucker weigh? In my state, passenger plates are only good for 6000 GVW. Put a few bags of cement in the Lightning and you could be over weight.

Weight is a big issue when we are talking larger vehicles, here in Europe a ordinary driving license gives you right to drive a car upp to 3500kg total weight, all over that needs a commercial licens, light truck up to 7500 and heavy truck license for all over that. The commercial license is expensive for the light and ridiculous expensive for the heavy licence.

So I do believe rules and law must change.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Has anybody else noticed the EVs on the market really tend toward sedans? EV SUVs seem to be pretty rare, probably because of rolling efficiency. The 4-door F150 Lightning could be the car of the future. How much does that sucker weigh? In my state, passenger plates are only good for 6000 GVW. Put a few bags of cement in the Lightning and you could be over weight.

6600 pounds is in my head for some reason which is 2X our Leaf.

 

[Whidbey]

I tried to say something similar earlier today but had to come back and delete it. This thread is too good to get shut down because I don't know the meaning of the word tact.

I am sure Elon Musk would approve that strategy, lol.

 

[aczlan]

Why a waste? It bailed out the auto industry by putting a lot of people in newer, more efficient cars. It did something for Americans instead of just handing money to rich people.

And it took all those usable cars out of circulation for the "next step down in the foodchain" buyers while raising the price of a any used car that was on the road to at least the C4C trade in price.
That IMO made a mess of the used car market which it still hadn't fully recovered from when Covid hit and knocked the stuffing out of the new car market with supply chain interruptions.

Now there were other opinions in that link that said the program was a success. However, most of them said it was not financially a success.

Most do think that it caused gas mileage to increase a bit and that's a good thing, as well as reducing carbon pollution.

Charities that count on car donations lost out on quite a few donations.

I'm just a dollars and cents person. Financially, it was a bust.

That too.

Aaron Z

 

[Gale Hawkins]

And it took all those usable cars out of circulation for the "next step down in the foodchain" buyers while raising the price of a any used car that was on the road to at least the C4C trade in price.
That IMO made a mess of the used car market which it still hadn't fully recovered from when Covid hit and knocked the stuffing out of the new car market with supply chain interruptions.

That too.

Aaron Z

EVs will make for steeply discounted used cars in the ICE to EV change over era that MB learned when Tesla entered the $70K to $100K car market.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

EVs will make for steeply discounted used cars in the ICE to EV change over era that MB learned when Tesla entered the $70K to $100K car market.

I'm confused. What did Milton-Bradley learn?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I'm confused. What did Milton-Bradley learn?

Me too I didn't even know they made cars.

 

[goeduck]

Me too I didn't even know they made cars.

 

[aczlan]

EVs will make for steeply discounted used cars in the ICE to EV change over era that MB learned when Tesla entered the $70K to $100K car market.

So in 5-10 years there might be a increase in used ICE vehicles as people transition from buying new ICEs to buying new EVs and used EVs will command a premium vs a used ICE.
Still won't increase the quantity of vehicles available and probably won't help people buying sub
$1500 cars.

Aaron Z

 

[California]

My kids are millenials. They don't think about EVs as political, environmental or as a status thing. To them it is just "well ya". EVs are just a thing - like the next technology of whatever sort that will come their way. They don't give it a lot of thought, they are just open to it.

Yeah. My kids - born in the 80's - take the transition to EV's as inevitable. The only variable they see is how soon will affordable ones reach the market. Both have degrees related to environmental science. Hopefully that was my influence.

Younger daughter pointed out something when we were gagging on the smoke from the recent huge California fires: When existing biomass burns, the net carbon effect is zero. All that smoke will eventually get incorporated into trees and grasses until the cycle repeats.

In contrast pumping prehistoric biomass out of ancient strata and burning it as fuel, increases the net carbon in our present air, water, soil. This is unsustainable, we're gradually poisoning ourselves.

 

[davel8257]

Comparing vehicle adoption between the U.S. (or Canada for that matter) and Europe is a bit apples and oranges. First of all, Europe is much more urban than the U.S., with people driving shorter distances than here in North America. Secondly, how well do you think these would be received without the heavy government subsidization they currently receive? This seems to be setting a troublesome precedent...I don't see anyone offering free gasoline/diesel to those of us who drive conventional vehicles, why should electric vehicles have "free" or heavily discounted charging? At what point will this end, or will it?
What about road use taxes? Where will the money come from for highway maintenance should these vehicles become more than a novelty?

Does the power grid have the capacity to charge all these vehicles should they become mainstream? All questions that need to be answered.

I'm sure the technology will improve over time, maybe even to the point where these vehicles are practical but I think the 10 year time frame is a bit optimistic.

re: road use tax: Here in Indiana, an electric car owner, I pay a $150 "Supplemental fee" above the usual license plate fee. For the few local miles I drive my Nissan Leaf, that just about nullifies 100% of my savings. But, I still bought the car and enjoy driving it knowing that at least part of electricity is coming from a large solar farm down the road and not from dead dinosaurs.

 

[3930dave]

Younger daughter pointed out something when we were gagging on the smoke from the recent huge California fires: When existing biomass burns, the net carbon effect is zero. All that smoke will eventually get incorporated into trees and grasses until the cycle repeats.

Hopefully your young one will have a word with all the legislators busy outlawing wood burning for heating buildings, as it's an important resource for many non-urban people.

Rgds, D.

 

[California]

Hopefully your young one will have a word with all the legislators busy outlawing wood burning for heating buildings, as it's an important resource for many non-urban people.

Does that affect rural people where you are? Here, air quality in urban areas is a major concern. But out where someone cuts their own firewood, the representatives from the rural areas have mostly preserved their voters' right to heat with firewood.

Added: a photo with the California State Capital building in there somewhere.
Here's my post where I first included it.
This was late summer, 100 degree weather, that's all automobile smog. Adding unlimited urban wood heating smoke to this much exhaust fumes in winter, would be overwhelming.

And a similar photo I took in New Delhi, India. Mid afternoon is a false sunset as smog increases to hide the sun.

 

[SylvainG]

This was the first she had, nothing particularly exiting but it did have Citroens hydraulic suspension, and that is an experience quit unik, you can see the bad road, you can hear the bad road but not much more than that, it's a flying carpet sensation. Unfortunately it has been sacrificed because all the pumps, valvs etc added weight and used enginepower so it wasn't emission friendly.

This is the Citroen I do like, C6

View attachment 715401

Ridding in a Citroën in Canadian winter had quite an opposite effect. Hydraulic was so stiff that you would bounce in the car. But, it's also the only car that you could drive with a wheel missing (and not tip it to ride on two wheels).