pickup truck size

[Bearsixty7]

“Deluxe Aluminum Wheels (4).............$185”
Try pricing that today.....
Probably $1,000!

or more!
That was window sticker, I usually ordered my trucks and could negotiate about 17% off, invoice price. NADA, KBB, Edmunds were great tools!
I went in with my printout of what I wanted and the Invoice prices and if they could get within $500.00 we made a deal.
I did that with the 91, 97, and 02 models. The 06 was a locate and had almost all the options I wanted and what was missing they added. They gave me crazy money for the 02 I traded in, they must have had a buyer already!
The 2019 probably wasn't my best haggling but they gave me decent trade in allowance for the 06 with 188k miles on it.

 

[deserteagle71]

So I have my mind set on a new Camaro SS that is 10x better in every way, including all of the comforts of my " lux truck", while still being a very fun and cool modern muscle car.

Better hurry. Word is that GM is set to discontinue production of the Camaro....not selling enough of them to make it worthwhile.

 

[ruffdog]

Better hurry. Word is that GM is set to discontinue production of the Camaro....not selling enough of them to make it worthwhile.

I hope they are not planning a electric SUV version of the Camaro.....

 

[Username Taken]

Better hurry. Word is that GM is set to discontinue production of the Camaro....not selling enough of them to make it worthwhile.

I was going to to tell him that but I didn't have the heart.

They've already halted production the last coupla months but they're set to re-open later in the Month.

The Camaro is like driving a coffin. Too many blind spots. Which is why they'll be gone by the end of 2022. Typical gm, great idea but they bungled it.

The Mustang will hang around. They're the essence of the American Pony Car. Fast, affordable for a young working man and an all-around really decent car. And Ford keeps trying to improve them. I don't see them giving up on the Mustang any time in the near future -- But you just never know.

The times they are a'changin

I should write a song

 

[Farmer495]

Years ago on other forums, I always used to suggest the Spicer 7-speed “easy shift” transmission. It’s a perfect diesel pickup transmission. I used to have one in my IH4800. It’s much easier to shift than the ZF and the NV. It looks similar in size. Has a granny 1st and a 7th OD. It was capable of standing up to a DT-466 in high torque applications and was rated in high GCWR applications
Would have been great in a Ram behind a Cummins

I read a few posts on Eaton Fuller conversions, primarily on Cummins Ram applications. MD truck trans handles power easy and off the shelf parts for conversion but find an OD model. 4x4 is main challenge which is what I think killed an OEM using those or Spicer in a pickup.

 

[Farmer495]

On the Diesels, they had to seriously de-rate the engines because the Stick just won't hold up to that kind of power. Oh, I'm sure there are some manual trans that will but who wants to pay 5 grand for a stick and then have to fight it like a wild hog every time you drive it?

Besides, an automatic does almost everything better than a stick. The only thing I can think of that a stick might do better is 'walk' on its own in a field. I used to put my old Ford in Granny Low and just let it idle through the bumps, ruts, mud and muck. It walk out of a almost anything. Somtimes it would stall out but not often. 300, 6 cylinder.

300 six and granny low 4-speed was best powertrain in the early 80s.

For the Cummins Ram, more like they didn't update the transmissions to match since so few sales. So same G56 trans while they kept updating the automatics to handle more and more power. Used to be the manual was rated more power cause the 5.9 would eat the 4-speed automatics.

Anyone other than die hard manual guy wouldn't give up the 1000 ft lb cummins for a 660 one. I said I'd never own an automatic truck, but economics speak louder then preferences and the market place says no manuals. I had a ZF6, long throw and not a 1/4mile speed shifter either. My current automatic truck accelerates faster and shifts quicker.

 

[Username Taken]

300 six and granny low 4-speed was best powertrain in the early 80s.

For the Cummins Ram, more like they didn't update the transmissions to match since so few sales. So same G56 trans while they kept updating the automatics to handle more and more power. Used to be the manual was rated more power cause the 5.9 would eat the 4-speed automatics.

Anyone other than die hard manual guy wouldn't give up the 1000 ft lb cummins for a 660 one. I said I'd never own an automatic truck, but economics speak louder then preferences and the market place says no manuals. I had a ZF6, long throw and not a 1/4mile speed shifter either. My current automatic truck accelerates faster and shifts quicker.

I had that combo in an '84 F-150. Loved it. Didn't realize how weak it was until I started pulling my brother's race cars to and from DeSoto speedway on an open trailer. Not bad on the low end. Weak but lovable.

Cummins Turbodiesel - Diesel Hub

Cummins turbodiesel tech topics at Diesel Hub, the Diesel Owners Resource.

www.cumminshub.com

They could have updated the Daimler-built G56 but it would have been so heavy, so complex and so expensive, nobody would bother with it. Plus, there's a reason why the US Army uses Automatic Transmissions in their tanks. They hold up better.

The new Mustangs and Camaros with the Ford-Developed 10-speed Automatic will scare you.

I drove my buddy's F-150 EcoBeast with the 10 speed and let me tell you, it wasn't quick...... It was seriously BADAZZ. I mean, it would pin you back in the seat. Bigly. Fast to the point of being a little scary. None of this blowing up the tires, making stupid smoke and a lot of noise like an old SBC.... It felt like being in a 747 when the pilot punches it on a short runway. It just pulls and doesn't let up.

That thing would out-pull his old 2001 7.3L PS Dually. Doesn't have the suspension or the brakes, but it will out-pull it.

Going forward isn't always good, but it's often better. Sometimes us old codgers (I am, I admit it) can get a little 'sour grapes' attitude going on. Not that I'll ever admit it.

 

[big bubba]

Personally Im a fan of Toyotas owned one old pickup before tacoma, two tacos one had a factory frame replacement , one fJ and two 4runnrrs in my lifetime. Never any major problems with any. The 4.0 is a good motor in terms of reliability.

22re best engine ever made by Toyota up to date. longevity, reliability

 

[goeduck]

I hope they are not planning a electric SUV version of the Camaro.....

These days they can fake that V8 growl into your speakers so you THINK you are still driving the real thing.

I always liked the Camero. Last one I had was a 2nd generation

 

[jjeff]

22re best engine ever made by Toyota up to date. longevity, reliability

22re best engine ever made by Toyota up to date. longevity, reliability

the 2.4 liter was a good motor the 2.7 wasn't bad either mated with a 5 speed they were sufficient for what I needed at the time. At times I miss those simple swb shortbed 4wd trucks they would go anywhere. Ever see what they did to a 4x4 toyota pu on the original top gear bbc version?

 

[Bobctat2035]

This highlights the actual problem with car companies today. This is the base model with 4x4 and the top model. There are four, versions in between. And that is just the 350. So, they have to make 6 trimws of the 350, with 3-5 different engines with 2 different powertains, 50 different color (you get the point) to cater to every single type of person imaginable when in reality all they're doing is creating artificial value with a bunch of options so it seems like the next tier is just a weeee bit more.
So if the base model is 40k and the super awesome model is 86k...that means you are LITERALLY buying and entire trucks worth, and then some, of wildly overpriced accessories and ******** techno features only hippies and housewives actually use.

In doing this they make the manufacturing process much more arduous and complicated than it would be if you offered 1/3 the options. This drives up the cost of every truck in the process and not just the 86k version only a complete imbecile would buy.

When I bought my SUV, the base model was 50k and the "S" was 71k. It already had leather. It already had most techy features a Limited Toyota gets you. Was the engine bigger? No. Was it faster? No. So what was the difference? 'Nicer' leather seats, idiot proof drive assist and a $7k wheels and tires. Bout it for the low price of an entire budget car.
I got the base, put new wheels and tires on for $2k and poof. Looked like the 21k version. But I must admit though, my ass and elbows might have preferred the softer leather.

I did the same thing with my Tundra. You'd never know it was the base 5.7 model vs. the Limited Ultra Moab Rock Mongler Arctic Force Edition.

 

[deserteagle71]

I drove my buddy's F-150 EcoBeast with the 10 speed and let me tell you, it wasn't quick...... It was seriously BADAZZ. I mean, it would pin you back in the seat. Bigly. Fast to the point of being a little scary. None of this blowing up the tires, making stupid smoke and a lot of noise like an old SBC.... It felt like being in a 747 when the pilot punches it on a short runway. It just pulls and doesn't let up.

That thing would out-pull his old 2001 7.3L PS Dually. Doesn't have the suspension or the brakes, but it will out-pull it.

I've had my 2016 "Ecobeast" with the 3.5 V6 since it was new (over 50,000 miles on it now) and I'm still impressed with it every time I drive it. As you said, if you put your foot into it, the way it takes off and goes is simply amazing for a pickup truck. Yet, if you drive it like an old grandpa (which I am) the mileage is amazing also. Mine has the 36 gallon gas tank so out here where gas stations are few and far between it brings a lot of peace of mind. Note in the photo below I've driven 357 miles since the last fillup and the gauge is still above a half a tank. And its good for another 463 miles till empty - over 800 miles on a tank of gas! Never thought I'd see a pickup truck be able to do this.

But to me the best feature of all...dependability...this truck has never been in the shop for any reason. All I do is change the oil and rotate the tires.

 

[BBHomestead]

I've often wondered in recent years how is it that American (& foreign) full size pick up trucks have become so large, luxury laden, and overwhelmingly expensive almost requiring a 2nd mortgage to purchase. (i'm not talking about those who make a living from their pickups, just everyday owners who cruise the country, malls, & trips to Lowes...)

What is your take? this is observation only, we all have our preferences. I'm talking sheer size & price. I travel narrow dirt roads almost daily, & drive very defensively around blind curves knowing most current pickups almost aggressively consume 2/3 or more of the road while insulated with power & luxury. That's ok, but puts me at risk. Most of the time i just pull off to the side...

So has it been the result of 1) modern owners actually needing all if it? 2) or is it Americans love affair with bigger, better, & more technology laden? I also note that the size of the payload bed continues to shrink all the while. (some 4 full size door models can't even carry a sheet of ply)
Personally i feel both are true: we now use pickups for in a wider range of activities, & want having it packed into one large size. But dang, the price & size
Hey, just as a simple metaphor to compare: look at the vat sized drink tumblers now served @ fast foods. do we really need it?

On the flip side, i've also noticed that especially since '08 crash, Detroit has done an outstanding job of producing more fuel efficient & modest sized passenger vehicles...strange. So tell me about the big pickup truck size craze. Again, not dumping, just observing.
Apologize in advance if this seems like an inane post, but i'm blown away every day of what the full size pickup has now become. best regards

I had a 1ton 79 Ford truck with a 390 in the late 80s it was a work truck that my dad bought off his boss! I now have a 2014 1 ton ford both had 4 doors and both I believe took up just as much space on the road except my 2014 is not a dually! So why do you think they are bigger because my experience is that the newer ones are heavier have better towing capacity and are so much safer for just about everything! This safety includes all the smaller vehicles sharing the roads since the new one have built in crumble zones where my 1979 would just smash through these new cars! Yes they cost more but show me anything that dont cost more! I will use 2x4x8 lumber in the 70s it was between 40 cents and 60 cents for a single 2x4x8 now they are $10 thats about 20 times more expensive! That's 20 times higher for a product that is not any better and some will claim actually not made with as much care or quality control! Now a 1979 f350 4 door 4x4 was with all options around $17k but 90% of customers didn't get all options so average price was $10k! If you do 20 times the low figure then a new truck today would be $200k and that would not be all the options! No look at houses or land and you will see on average vehicles have not actually gone up anywhere as much as other more necessary items! Oh and all my trucks have always had a 8ft bed or a even longer flatbed! Even though I might drive it to a restaurant or other non work related store I dont see the reason to have a short bed what real difference will 18inch shorter matter long bed 21.5 ft long or 20ft with short bed! But I guess the guys just buying it to look cool think it looks cooler with stuff sticking out the back when actually using it as a truck! So I hope this all works for your original question!

 

[BBHomestead]

Well seeing as women only make up 15% of the truck purchasing demographic…I would disagree on this one. No way the industry changes to get at 15% of their sales base. They go after the 85%…which are males. What has happened is auto manufacturers needed to appeal to city folk…because that was an untapped market and represented the most capital to spend On new vehicles. So they added luxury and sold millions of trucks to people that will use the bed 2 times a year, and probably never tow anything. Smart.

You say they need to appeal to the 85% group that are men but you didn't figure into this that out of those 85% that 65% of them are married so he is correct that women changed all the car industry with all kinds of options and features! Just because a man was buying it didn't mean his wife didn't have something to say about comfort or a vanity mirror! Yes other factors but if you believe you have ever lived in a man's world then you have a great imagination or absolutely no use for a woman in your life! Women have been running things since the first time they treated a man better for bringing them better food!

 

[Hay Dude]

I like high useful technology and increased economy, but would like to see the curb weigh of the old F-350 with a 460 versus the new one. I see the new engine specs, they are much better, but often times wonder if decreased weight is also helping.
1000 pounds of steel from the 1980’s replaced by plastic or aluminum in todays trucks makes a big difference in speed and helps with towing.

 

[Username Taken]

I like high useful technology and increased economy, but would like to see the curb weigh of the old F-350 with a 460 versus the new one. I see the new engine specs, they are much better, but often times wonder if decreased weight is also helping.
1000 pounds of steel from the 1980’s replaced by plastic or aluminum in todays trucks makes a big difference in speed and helps with towing.

I drove my 2017 Ram 2500 Crew Cab Cummins 4WD over a certified grain scale with me in it and it said I weighed in at 8,350lbs.

And I'm rated to pull 17,400lbs.

If you have 2009 or newer Ram, just enter your VIN here and it will give you your towing capacity.

Ram Towing | Find the Best Truck for Your Towing Needs

Find everything you need to know about Ram towing capacity, payload & more here. Discover the best Ram truck or van that fits your towing needs today.

www.ramtrucks.com

 

[ddbackhoe]

Very true -- though it also makes it easier to start unknowingly treading into areas requiring a CDL (either by federal minimums or in states that may go beyond the minimum). Which can be a problem for those of use with arms thick enough we'll always measure as having "high blood pressure."

One of those things that both frustrates and amuses me is how much bad/incorrect science is present in modern medicine ....and even more so when it ties into regulation. Of course when it hits that latter point of tying into regulations it's just about futile to even try correcting the flawed understanding of physics/science (e.g. wall thickness and composition do make a difference on crush resistance despite that fact being ignored in taking blood pressure measurements) even though going with the flow can create hazardous situations.

(might just be me, but I'd rather have people with "high blood pressure" operating heavy equipment/trucks than someone with too low of blood pressure given the latter can cause fainting)

So bigger, stronger, faster and much safer to operate ....yet the regulations aren't likely to change or recognize that any time soon.

BTW I'd suspect some of the growth in size may also be driven by the need to create more space for crumple zones in order to get better crash testing results.....

Size has nothing to do with the requirements for a CDL.

 

[jjp8182]

Size has nothing to do with the requirements for a CDL.

correct weight does -- and at this point a modern 3/4-ton truck pulling a trailer (even ones that may not hit the max advertised towing capacity) can go over 26,000 lbs GCWR.

At which point the various state & federal regulations may start to take effect depending on exemptions and/or state regulations - and where a person is driving.

For example the newest Ram 2500's have an advertised max towing capacity of 20,000lbs....and base weight for the lightest configurations is more than 6000lbs.

 

[Farmer495]

I had that combo in an '84 F-150. Loved it. Didn't realize how weak it was until I started pulling my brother's race cars to and from DeSoto speedway on an open trailer. Not bad on the low end. Weak but lovable.

Cummins Turbodiesel - Diesel Hub

Cummins turbodiesel tech topics at Diesel Hub, the Diesel Owners Resource.

www.cumminshub.com

They could have updated the Daimler-built G56 but it would have been so heavy, so complex and so expensive, nobody would bother with it. Plus, there's a reason why the US Army uses Automatic Transmissions in their tanks. They hold up better.

The new Mustangs and Camaros with the Ford-Developed 10-speed Automatic will scare you.

I drove my buddy's F-150 EcoBeast with the 10 speed and let me tell you, it wasn't quick...... It was seriously BADAZZ. I mean, it would pin you back in the seat. Bigly. Fast to the point of being a little scary. None of this blowing up the tires, making stupid smoke and a lot of noise like an old SBC.... It felt like being in a 747 when the pilot punches it on a short runway. It just pulls and doesn't let up.

That thing would out-pull his old 2001 7.3L PS Dually. Doesn't have the suspension or the brakes, but it will out-pull it.

Going forward isn't always good, but it's often better. Sometimes us old codgers (I am, I admit it) can get a little 'sour grapes' attitude going on. Not that I'll ever admit it.

Yup went from a 7.3 PS 6-speed manual to a 3.5 ecoboost 6 speed automatic. Hills the 7.3 was to the floor in 5th towing, ecoboost hardly has the pedal pushed. Pull in 6th gear 1800 RPM easy on the flat. I've had it sideways many times on pavement and you have to watch the speedometer since it's silent. Can't say that about the 7.3. The 7.3 was more of a working truck and had stronger suspension and brakes as you said. Loved to hear the 7.3 pull but not being able to hear the radio or talk to a passenger while turning 3000 RPM in 5th every grade on the 4 lane wasn't fun.

 

[Oaktree]

I've had my 2016 "Ecobeast" with the 3.5 V6 since it was new (over 50,000 miles on it now) and I'm still impressed with it every time I drive it. As you said, if you put your foot into it, the way it takes off and goes is simply amazing for a pickup truck. Yet, if you drive it like an old grandpa (which I am) the mileage is amazing also. Mine has the 36 gallon gas tank so out here where gas stations are few and far between it brings a lot of peace of mind. Note in the photo below I've driven 357 miles since the last fillup and the gauge is still above a half a tank. And its good for another 463 miles till empty - over 800 miles on a tank of gas! Never thought I'd see a pickup truck be able to do this.

F-series I presume? That's would be good mileage for a small truck, let alone a full-size!