Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,421  
This from page 9. I agree EVS are hard to buy if you don't have money but that is true for buying a new gas car as well.

Our 2016 Leaf SL came from a Nissan dealership. They had it priced at retail book and I believe it might have been $18, 000. Since I was on my way to look at an older leaf I had 12,000 in cash on me when I decided to go to the Nissan dealership. I like the car and it had Seriously degraded battery and I laid the $12,000 on the salesman desk. About 20 minutes later the salesman came back and said $13,800 was as low as they would go but I could pay the rest by credit card. The salesperson assured me I would be in line for a new battery from Nissan under warranty very soon so I went for the deal.

5 Weeks later the battery health dropped below 65% triggering the warranty claim. In the meantime Nissan had started replacing the 107 mi range battery with 150 mi range battery. Effectively that meant I had 150 mi range 2020 EV for $14K with 25K miles.
Just 3 years earlier I bought a very low (7K) mileage 18 month old Corolla for 13K.
It still has it's original (12v) battery, and a new battery will likely cost less than $125.
Gets 36 mpg hwy.

I should have bought a battery powered car? (replacement battery = $5K)
The car has 76K now, and using an average of only 33mpg, at $3.00/gal, my fuel cost at a maximum has been $6.9 K
Seemingly $1900 more that the battery replacement, but not allowing for charging costs.
Could be just about an even dollar expense wash, with gas being MUCH more user friendly/convenient.

Did not make sense for me then, and still does not!
To get around my property, I do love my 48v golf car though!
 
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/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#2,422  
Since the US Canadian border is not covered in ice sheet obviously we are in a phase of global warming. I am aware that the ice had melted before we started drilling oil wells.

I for one do not get the connection between global warming and EVS as a solution to the problem.

Science tells me that my gas vehicle has efficiency of 20 30% and my EV has efficiency of 80%. That's what drives me to EVS instead of ice vehicles when feasible but we're far far from EVS proficient at meeting all transportation needs in total today.



Dino juice fossil fuel crude oil whatever you want to call it will run out some day and I'd like to make that last as long as we can for lubrication roads etc.

The coming hundred dollar Plus oil prices will cease this needless debate over climate change because we'll do it for economical reasons only.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,423  
My dad went through several used rhd mail jeeps in the 70's on his rural route. He let me drive one to town when I was 16 years old to visit a friend. My friends older brother jumped in it, started it with a screw driver and drove off. After his joyride I never got to borrow the jeep again.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,424  
Since the US Canadian border is not covered in ice sheet obviously we are in a phase of global warming. I am aware that the ice had melted before we started drilling oil wells.

I for one do not get the connection between global warming and EVS as a solution to the problem.

Science tells me that my gas vehicle has efficiency of 20 30% and my EV has efficiency of 80%. That's what drives me to EVS instead of ice vehicles when feasible but we're far far from EVS proficient at meeting all transportation needs in total today.



Dino juice fossil fuel crude oil whatever you want to call it will run out some day and I'd like to make that last as long as we can for lubrication roads etc.

The coming hundred dollar Plus oil prices will cease this needless debate over climate change because we'll do it for economical reasons only.
That is exactly what the fossel fuel haters are pushing for politically!
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,425  
When my fuel tank is running low I usually fill up on the way home. From time to time something comes up or I simply forget. When I get in the vehicle the next time I kick myself and fill up. If I forget to plug in with an EV and the charge is low, I'd be up a creek if I needed to go very far.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,426  
When my fuel tank is running low I usually fill up on the way home. From time to time something comes up or I simply forget. When I get in the vehicle the next time I kick myself and fill up. If I forget to plug in with an EV and the charge is low, I'd be up a creek if I needed to go very far.
You could get a smart wrist watch, that would remind you to plug your EV in before you go to bed.
Just imagine just how convenient (?) this would be if refrigerators worked the same way.:ROFLMAO:
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#2,427  
When my fuel tank is running low I usually fill up on the way home. From time to time something comes up or I simply forget. When I get in the vehicle the next time I kick myself and fill up. If I forget to plug in with an EV and the charge is low, I'd be up a creek if I needed to go very far.
I bet walking could make you a fast learner. :)

Fear of the unknown is a real thing to some people.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#2,428  
That is exactly what the fossel fuel haters are pushing for politically!
Fossil fuel prices is a factor of supply and demand not what somebody wants it to be. People's love or hate of something is not what determines the international price of crude.


The demand for fossil fuel products is going to do nothing but increase for many decades.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,429  
Fossil fuel prices is a factor of supply and demand not what somebody wants it to be. People's love or hate of something is not what determines the international price of crude.


The demand for fossil fuel products is going to do nothing but increase for many decades.
The political actions can greatly affect the price/availability of crude.
Consider ANWR, Keystone XL!
The loss of both will have an effect on crude price and availability.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,430  
Since the US Canadian border is not covered in ice sheet obviously we are in a phase of global warming. I am aware that the ice had melted before we started drilling oil wells.

I for one do not get the connection between global warming and EVS as a solution to the problem.

Science tells me that my gas vehicle has efficiency of 20 30% and my EV has efficiency of 80%. That's what drives me to EVS instead of ice vehicles when feasible but we're far far from EVS proficient at meeting all transportation needs in total today.



Dino juice fossil fuel crude oil whatever you want to call it will run out some day and I'd like to make that last as long as we can for lubrication roads etc.

The coming hundred dollar Plus oil prices will cease this needless debate over climate change because we'll do it for economical reasons only.
We need a lot more than conversion to EVs. The nice thing about electricity is that generation does not require fuel. Solar, wind, and geothermal can meet our future energy needs. Hydro is pretty much maxed out, and the damage dams did to fisheries was not considered when we built them. Nuclear in America is still the victim of 1960s technology, which was messy and unsafe. America is stuck in a hole, but other countries, mostly in Asia, are building out 21st century reactors. China and India are leading the world in nuclear technology.


Our cheapest source of electricity is solar, but storage is a problem. Repurposed EV batteries or dedicated batteries could be a partial solution, but manufacturing and installing that much storage will take years.

Global warming does not happen in a vacuum. :unsure: The sun may be moving into a Grand Solar Minimum, which would cause global cooling under normal circumstances. Balancing that is the projection that if we continue to litter our atmosphere with CO2, it will be 3x historical norm by the end of this century. Let's hear it for predictions, which are almost always wrong. If the sun doesn't cool off, we're screwed. If the sun does cool off, the next century is screwed. If our industrial civilization collapses, all bets are off the table.

Maintaining an industrial civilization during an era of global development is going to require some serious inventiveness. The Chinese are developing solar, nuclear, and hydrogen fusion. America is putting up windmills and fracking. China is way ahead of the US and Europe in EV deployment. Maybe we can steal their technology?
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,431  
Sounds like Elon Musk was thinking of you when he built the seven-seater model Y.

I can buy a lot of fuel for my current $6,000 car for the price difference between that and a model Y...

Nuclear in America is still the victim of 1960s technology, which was messy and unsafe. America is stuck in a hole, but other countries, mostly in Asia, are building out 21st century reactors. China and India are leading the world in nuclear technology.
A lot of the reactors being built over in China are being built by US companies I have a friend who has spent a fair amount of time over there working on building various reactors for them.


Aaron Z
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,432  
Fossil fuel prices is a factor of supply and demand not what somebody wants it to be. People's love or hate of something is not what determines the international price of crude.


The demand for fossil fuel products is going to do nothing but increase for many decades.
Why would oil prices increase. I thought the world was going to EV and demand for fossil fuels would decrease, or are you contradicting you rhetoric? Will we be using fossil fuels to produce electricity?
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,433  
Why would oil prices increase. I thought the world was going to EV and demand for fossil fuels would decrease, or are you contradicting you rhetoric? Will we be using fossil fuels to produce electricity?
Supply and demand. Oil companies have decided oil is a loser, so they have cut exploration and development to the bone. Wells run dry all the time. They can pump their available supplies tax free thanks to the depletion allowance, so doubling or tripling the price of crude is a win-win for them. Plus, they don't have to expand or build those expensive refineries, which puts even more profits in their pockets. They are not in the oil business, they are in the profits business.

Meanwhile, Americans will get tired of $6/gallon gasoline or diesel, and EV sales will explode. Welcome to the future.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,434  
I think where a lot of people disagree with that statement is when government tips the scales by forcing changes on us through regulations. There are as many scientists that say man made global warming IS NOT true as say it IS true.
Curious where you found that information. Support for anthropogenic climate change is overwhelming in the scientific community and it has been for a very long time. Even the most pessimistic estimates put it 4 out of 5: Fact Checking The Claim Of 97% Consensus On Anthropogenic Climate Change
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,435  
Just curious...anyone read the fine print in their EV liability insurance policies ?
I wonder how long before someone gets sued (or even criminally charged) for causing an accident because their battery died...

I know it happens with vehicles that have run out of gas and cause accidents...with the limited ranges of EVs I suspect insurance companies will react...
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,436  
Supply and demand. Oil companies have decided oil is a loser, so they have cut exploration and development to the bone. Wells run dry all the time. They can pump their available supplies tax free thanks to the depletion allowance, so doubling or tripling the price of crude is a win-win for them. Plus, they don't have to expand or build those expensive refineries, which puts even more profits in their pockets. They are not in the oil business, they are in the profits business.

Meanwhile, Americans will get tired of $6/gallon gasoline or diesel, and EV sales will explode. Welcome to the future.
According to your statement, the price of electricity will go up and that is what we all fear. I have an all electric home(geothermal) and when I retire I hope to be able to afford to heat my home.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#2,437  
Why would oil prices increase. I thought the world was going to EV and demand for fossil fuels would decrease, or are you contradicting you rhetoric? Will we be using fossil fuels to produce electricity?
EVs are at least 20 years away from leading to a net decrease in demand for fossil fuel. EV usage is a concept today not a reality. Most baby boomers will not be around when EVs become a world wide reality.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,438  
The coming hundred dollar Plus oil prices will cease this needless debate over climate change because we'll do it for economical reasons only.
Some would argue we’d be there already if not for all the government handouts to the oil and gas industry. I don’t see that happening in our lifetime though. Everybody hates subsidies right up until they start working in their favor.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,439  
According to your statement, the price of electricity will go up and that is what we all fear. I have an all electric home(geothermal) and when I retire I hope to be able to afford to heat my home.
I don't know how you got that from what I wrote. The price of fossil fuels will go up, and coal fired plants are already money losers for utility companies. Newly constructed power plants will be cheaper to build and cheaper to operate, with no fuel costs and without the horrible waste problem of coal fired plants.
 
/ Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #2,440  
EVs are at least 20 years away from leading to a net decrease in demand for fossil fuel. EV usage is a concept today not a reality. Most baby boomers will not be around when EVs become a world wide reality.
Whew! Now I have plenty of time to roll more coal :cool:
 
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