Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

This is Sandy Munro showing what large OEM companies besides Tesla have out battery wise today and are working on for tomorrow. He states most if his expensive EV teardown reports are being purchased by Chinese EV makers. While this is a technical subject getting the gist is doable.

 

[coobie]

Do you mean where for "US Ground Transportation going (at least mostly) Electric?"

It is already happening. Even cheap Gasoline or Diesel cannot compete. Retail Electricity is less than 1/4 the price of "Cheap" Gasoline or Diesel.

Renewable Electricity (Silicon Solar PV in particular) has become so cheap, that businesses or even normal folks can "fuel" or charge at their own place for "Free."

Going out further, Electric Roadways will be even less than "Battery" system, and prices just collapse further.

This is NOT some "Future Tech" stuff -- it is happening now. My question is about the effects on the Ethanol Corn Industry.

As I stated before this country electric infrastructure grid is so outdated we will play heLL catching up.Where are all of these charging stations? I might see one or two in my county.Who will pay the electric utilities for all of them to be installed? What will be the charge for consumers to use these charging stations? Electric cars/trucks might work in the big cities moving forward in the near term but not very good in a rural setting.

 

[5030]

Ain't 'happening' around here that I can see. Maybe in urban areas but out here in flyover country no way.

 

[5030]

Electric truck trains running in electrified cross country tunnels will come back to the surface roads fully charged for another 500 miles of range.

So, who builds all these 'tunnels'? The government that is trillions in debt? Kalifornia cannot even complete it's high speed rail corridor let along build 'tunnels'

I will say your pie in the sky fantasies are interesting but not doable.

Least not in my lifetime and I'm glad of that. Like the electric JD utility tractor with a 6 hour runtime and a 200K price tag. Not gonna happen anywhere I know of except maybe Kalifornia where people have more money than common sense and fat payment books are the way of life.

What we really need right now is some sense of reality and what is transpiring under our noses.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The EV rollout will so slow that wind and solar may pickup the slack. More and more homes will meet their own power needs and/or be charging off peak times so the grid being a major concern is a red herring.

 

[coobie]

The EV rollout will so slow that wind and solar may pickup the slack. More and more homes will meet their own power needs and/or be charging off peak times so the grid being a major concern is a red herring.

If I remember correctly the wind turbines did not fair so well this past winter down in Texas.I worked at electric field for 42 years and can tell you we are pretty close to a 3rd world grid.In my neck of the woods we still have primary poles in the ground from 1932.Under ground primary/secondary wire dated back to 1972 still feeding power. The electric train wreck is coming sooner than later..

 

[Grumpycat]

As I stated before this country electric infrastructure grid is so outdated we will play heLL catching up.Where are all of these charging stations? I might see one or two in my county.Who will pay the electric utilities for all of them to be installed? What will be the charge for consumers to use these charging stations? Electric cars/trucks might work in the big cities moving forward in the near term but not very good in a rural setting.

As I have said time after time, for 12 hours/day we use 50% of the rate we use the other 12 hours/day so there is lots of capacity to be utilized at night. Which just so happens is the ideal time to charge an EV with low cost equipment.

You insist on suffering from "gas station syndrome" because if EVs did not depend on "gas stations" on every street corner then you would be forced to recognize everything else you believe is wrong.

A solution for long distance travel would be to build railroads down the median of interstate highways with autonomous railcars (better look up that term). One could park and anchor to a railcar at "exits", plug in, set destination, and go to sleep until one arrives. The reason this will never work is the first requirement is of competent government to build and operate.

Freight companies could drop a shipping container on an autonomous railcar and send cross country without a driver.

Being rail-bound greatly increases rolling efficiency. Solves 99% of the self-driving fully autonomous problem.

Conventional cars would only need electric air conditioning and heating to make hours on the railcar comfortable.

Tesla has built an impressive Supercharger network, worldwide, without subsidies. Everyone else is expecting The Government to to it for them. And by not doing it finally The Incompetent Government has fined VW $2B (and others lesser amounts) used to finance Electrify America as their solution.

Talk about idiocy: fining automakers for bad behavior and rewarding them by giving the fines back to build the infrastructure their honest competitor financed by selling vehicles.

 

[coobie]

As I have said time after time, for 12 hours/day we use 50% of the rate we use the other 12 hours/day so there is lots of capacity to be utilized at night. Which just so happens is the ideal time to charge an EV with low cost equipment.

You insist on suffering from "gas station syndrome" because if EVs did not depend on "gas stations" on every street corner then you would be forced to recognize everything else you believe is wrong.

A solution for long distance travel would be to build railroads down the median of interstate highways with autonomous railcars (better look up that term). One could park and anchor to a railcar at "exits", plug in, set destination, and go to sleep until one arrives. The reason this will never work is the first requirement is of competent government to build and operate.

Freight companies could drop a shipping container on an autonomous railcar and send cross country without a driver.

Being rail-bound greatly increases rolling efficiency. Solves 99% of the self-driving fully autonomous problem.

Conventional cars would only need electric air conditioning and heating to make hours on the railcar comfortable.

Tesla has built an impressive Supercharger network, worldwide, without subsidies. Everyone else is expecting The Government to to it for them. And by not doing it finally The Incompetent Government has fined VW $2B (and others lesser amounts) used to finance Electrify America as their solution.

Talk about idiocy: fining automakers for bad behavior and rewarding them by giving the fines back to build the infrastructure their honest competitor financed by selling vehicles.

I don"t suffer from gas station anything.Just stating the facts.Hope your pipe dream comes true.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The plus side of the 2009 ice storm was we got our grid rebuilt The 1938 poles went to the ground. They are using steel more and more here.

 

[Grumpycat]

If I remember correctly the wind turbines did not fair so well this past winter down in Texas.I worked at electric field for 42 years and can tell you we are pretty close to a 3rd world grid.In my neck of the woods we still have primary poles in the ground from 1932.Under ground primary/secondary wire dated back to 1972 still feeding power. The electric train wreck is coming sooner than later..

So what? Electrons wear out copper atoms?

A pole standing since 1932? Pretty good pole, I say!

Underground wiring from 1972? If there is nothing wrong with the insulation then who cares what year? Pretty sure original wiring on pre-1972 tractors is the norm here.

These days we run higher voltage on the feeders than we used to. Thats all.

 

[Grumpycat]

I don"t suffer from gas station anything.Just stating the facts.Hope your pipe dream comes true.

No pipe dream. Is already here. I can drive my EV anywhere. Anytime. Unlike you who has not so much as tried "because you already know everything!", I have actually done.

 

[coobie]

So what? Electrons wear out copper atoms?

A pole standing since 1932? Pretty good pole, I say!

Underground wiring from 1972? If there is nothing wrong with the insulation then who cares what year? Pretty sure original wiring on pre-1972 tractors is the norm here.

These days we run higher voltage on the feeders than we used to. Thats all.

You stated my points poles from 1932,1972 UG wire feeding at higher capacity thats never intended to handle.REALLY wiring on a 1972 tractor(FUNNY) over load that wiring and see what happens? Compare apple to apples.What could possibly happen"FAILURE"

 

[coobie]

No pipe dream. Is already here. I can drive my EV anywhere. Anytime. Unlike you who has not so much as tried "because you already know everything!", I have actually done.

Sorry to hurt your feelers just stating the facts.How do you know that I don't own a electric vehicle?

 

[goeduck]

A solution for long distance travel would be to build railroads down the median of interstate highways with autonomous railcars (better look up that term). One could park and anchor to a railcar at "exits", plug in, set destination, and go to sleep until one arrives. The reason this will never work is the first requirement is of competent government to build and operate.

Freight companies could drop a shipping container on an autonomous railcar and send cross country without a driver.

I would not buy into that unproven concept simply due to the astronomical cost. There are A LOT of freeways. After all, it is not infrastructure I am recently told by those currently in charge.

What could and probably should happen is all of the big cities that installed light rail transit systems connecting the local airport to all the suburbs and downtowns could (what you describe) get the packages into neighborhoods at minimal cost. Then truck from there.

EDIT.... Then EV from there.

The big cities who have the most to gain (and support EVs the most) should bear the cost from local taxes (no Federal or State funds).

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Don't worry. If Musk is around long enough, he will also be shackled with legacy costs. I'm sure he will weasel a way for the government to pay them.

He has already.

 

[MossRoad]

That entirely is dependent on what they are growing. Very few around here grow e-corn.... and I will tell you that making money on e-corn is very slim. The ethanol producers really penciled it out. You have to grow a specific variety (dictated by them) and it's all on a contract price set ahead of time so when inputs rise and fuel cost rises (as it is presently), the slim profit margin grows even slimmer.

Why row croppers around here don't plant it.

Typically, seed corn is about 300 bucks per 52 pound sack. I know well, my good friend down the road is one of the largest seed corn producers in the State of Michigan and I get most all of his no germ uncoated seed corn to heat my house with in the winter. Seed corn must 'germ' at 95% or better to be marketable and it's tested regularly. I have the cheapest heat in the winter...free corn.

27% of Michigan's corn crop goes to ethanol production.

 

[3930dave]

Supply/Demand.

In this case, I'm talking about Taxes. Last meaningful Canadian #'s I could pull up quickly were from 2018.

Total taxes in 2018 were $24 Billion. Gasoline and Diesel, road-use.

https://www.taxpayer.com/media/2018-GTHD-EN.pdf

^ page 14.

If you live in a country that is Debt-Free, with balanced budgets, please send me your GPS co-ordinates..... I'll be right over.

No govt that I know of (even Pre-Covid) in 2021 can afford to walk away from the fuel taxes they haul in every year.

Long way of saying...... if your electricity is (truly) cheap now..... don't bet your household budget on it staying that way.....

Believe me when I say..... There is nothing I'd like better, than to be being totally wrong about what I just posted here.

Rgds, D.

 

[Phil Timmons]

If I remember correctly the wind turbines did not fair so well this past winter down in Texas.I worked at electric field for 42 years and can tell you we are pretty close to a 3rd world grid.In my neck of the woods we still have primary poles in the ground from 1932.Under ground primary/secondary wire dated back to 1972 still feeding power. The electric train wreck is coming sooner than later..

You may not know that Natural Gas was the BIG Fail for Texas, followed by Coal and Nukes? Wind was not allocated much, as Wind tends be lower in the Winter and Summer than in the Spring and Fall.

But a life time ago, your area was my area -- but economically the area sort of went on an economic decline. Thing that is rough with a decline -- it is hard to get new investment. You could change all that at anytime, but I think we both know that is not too likely? In areas of expanding economy, there are new poles, wires, even new substations going in all the time. Just mentioning that so you to do not over-expand your experience beyond your own experience.

But as we quit wasting so much investment money into Gas and Oil, it frees US to do useful things -- like expand and renew the Grid. You have seen or read the numbers? It takes very little growth of the overall generation or grid load to take all the present US Ground Transportation to Electric. And once we are free US from Gas and Oil, we will have the money to do so.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Supply/Demand.

In this case, I'm talking about Taxes. Last meaningful Canadian #'s I could pull up quickly were from 2018.

Total taxes in 2018 were $24 Billion. Gasoline and Diesel, road-use.

https://www.taxpayer.com/media/2018-GTHD-EN.pdf

^ page 14.

If you live in a country that is Debt-Free, with balanced budgets, please send me your GPS co-ordinates..... I'll be right over.

No govt that I know of (even Pre-Covid) in 2021 can afford to walk away from the fuel taxes they haul in every year.

Long way of saying...... if your electricity is (truly) cheap now..... don't bet your household budget on it staying that way.....

Believe me when I say..... There is nothing I'd like better, than to be being totally wrong about what I just posted here.

Rgds, D.

Your next to last paragraph is where many have wiggle room to get off of the grid by going to solar for home electrical power generation or stay on the grid and become net power provider to the grid.

Just like most of us will be buying EVs when they cost less than ICE powered vehicles to own for the first 300K miles the same will happen with our electricity needs. At our place with our usage cost is close to the cost to move to solar. If I was 40 instead of 70 and building 1/3 mile from the current grid lines starting out with solar would be a low brained.

Solar power costs are declining while grid costs are indeed subject to rate increases as you noted. Connection to grid is no longer free around here.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Ford Twin-Turbo Godzilla Engine In Development: Report

I am posting this to illustrate the downside over time of governments banning ICE vehicle sales.

Ford's debt load has predetermined it will follow the exit Chrysler Motors took.

Tesla most likely will make vehicles until it is no longer profitable. About 6 of the 600 different EV makers in China today will win out and supply most of the EVs for the rest of the world like Japan did 40 years ago. Ford may try to stop China with a Pinto EV but I expect it may be too late.

China controls the EV battery supply chain and Ford and GM do not.

Ford needs EV batteries if they are going to stay in business today instead of 2024. They have to keep spending money on the ICE side because they do not have the cash to get to the market with EVs.

Later. I am a gogether so I have to go get her.