Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[3930dave]

The big drawback in my mind to hydrogen cars is the image of some stoned drunk soccer mom trying to self-serve 3000 psi compressed hydrogen into her car full of kids. Hydrogen infrastructure ends with somebody's hand on the nozzle.

A saying (old Nordic, IIRC) that I've come to appreciate is "You can get used to anything, even a Hanging".....

A wiser person than I said "If gasoline had been produced 100 years later, Legal would never have let it out the door" - meaning from a Safety standpoint. It is such a pervasive part of modern life during our lifetimes, that we don't really think about it...... and I say this, as a ICE fan.

I like hydrogen. Building a consensus in industry (while companies scrap over First Mover etc....) is usually not easy - today's EV market a current (pun-intended) example.

That ^ said, I suspect it would be relatively simple (given the tech we drown in every-day) to design a smart-interlock connector system so it would be next to impossible to pass hydrogen unless the mating connectors were fully locked.

Contrast that with today's self-serve gasoline pumps - absolutely nothing prevents you from taking the hose and going all Billy Jack on the guy on the other side of the pump, or your car load of passengers. Again, I say that, liking ICE..... it's just the Hanging we've gotten used to.....

I agree with your point about Hydrogen being a great large-scale storage buffer. And, it's an old story....... something close to 40 years ago now, a company called Canadian Hydrolyzer (sp?) was using PV panels to crack water. You can sell the oxygen too, and that type of large scale capacity would have been really useful, the last year....

Rgds, D.

 

[PuffyC]

I would not trust tesla cyber truck stats.... Musk is good at over promising and under delivering.

He has very ambitions goals and you're right that sometimes he let's his optimism get away from him, but considering what's he's already achieved with Tesla and SpaceX I'm willing to cut him some slack. The next Americans on the moon will get there on a SpaceX Starship.

Off topic but Tesla reminds me a lot of Amazon before people wised up and it caught fire. Ten years ago everyone was going on and on about Amazon being a charade, they couldn't make money, it's was all slight of hand, etc. Meanwhile those in the know could see they were doing revolutionary things that would change the world. Ten years ago you could have bought 50 shares of AMZN for a hair under $10,000 and financial experts around the globe would have called you a chump. Today those 50 shares would be worth over $160,000. Tesla is changing the world too. This is not investment advice, just my opinion that I see a lot of similarities (Disclaimer: I own shares of both).

Back on topic, if anyone can build a viable electric pickup truck, or an electric semi, IMO it's Tesla. However it all falls out, the next few years are going to be very exciting.

 

[Cat385B]

Looks like you could build a "COE"/forward-cab model pretty easily with electric. I realize COE style has comfort issues but they're great for getting a 12' bed in a short vehicle with great visibility for cities.

Canoo and Neuron, so far.

Canoo is pretty basic, and it is a smaller vehicle. 6&1/2’ wide by 15’ long. The Neuron T One has a cab that was inspired by the Starship Enterprise.
I put in for a Canoo truck. Hopefully it makes it into production. It fits what I need. I drive 100 miles round trip daily for work, the truck has an estimated range of 200 miles. The three items I carry in my car or my truck back and forth to work that I really need to keep secure would fit in the lockable frunk. I could even skip the Honda 2000 generator if I had the Canoo. I don’t need to haul 5 people around, two works fine. I do need to keep paperwork and blueprints handy and dry, so the slightly extended cab will do. I work all year in Minnesota, and job sites can get pretty crappy, so 4x or AWD is a must. I do haul plywood or dura mats around occasionally, so being able to extend the bed from 6’ to 8’ and still have a tailgate is a nice option. I do want to carry a fuel transfer tank, but a 30-40 gallon tank that fits over the fender well would work fine.

 

[goddom]

He has very ambitions goals and you're right that sometimes he let's his optimism get away from him, but considering what's he's already achieved with Tesla and SpaceX I'm willing to cut him some slack. The next Americans on the moon will get there on a SpaceX Starship.

Off topic but Tesla reminds me a lot of Amazon before people wised up and it caught fire. Ten years ago everyone was going on and on about Amazon being a charade, they couldn't make money, it's was all slight of hand, etc. Meanwhile those in the know could see they were doing revolutionary things that would change the world. Ten years ago you could have bought 50 shares of AMZN for a hair under $10,000 and financial experts around the globe would have called you a chump. Today those 50 shares would be worth over $160,000. Tesla is changing the world too. This is not investment advice, just my opinion that I see a lot of similarities (Disclaimer: I own shares of both).

Back on topic, if anyone can build a viable electric pickup truck, or an electric semi, IMO it's Tesla. However it all falls out, the next few years are going to be very exciting.

I am not knocking Musk, I think its part of what makes Tesla successful is he create a huge buzz. Just don't trust everything they say when it comes to the numbers. Musk is an amazing guy doing Tesla, SpaceX, and the tunnel stuff. I am excited for the Tesla Semi that is coming soon because I hope it helps transition to more electric vehicles.

 

[Cat385B]

I should add that neither of those are cabovers, imo. Are crash test standards different for medium duty trucks as opposed to passenger vehicles? Lots of medium duty trucks are made with the driver over the front axle. Both of those prototypes have interior dash designs that are ... interesting. I just don’t understand why if you don’t need a motor under the front hood, you would design a truck the same as one that does.
Inefficient.
ning’s comment about a 12’ flatbed is spot on. There is no reason there should not be a BEV that has two or three passenger cab, and an 8-10’ bed, in a package that is less than 18’ long total.

 

[5030]

I am not knocking Musk, I think its part of what makes Tesla successful is he create a huge buzz. Just don't trust everything they say when it comes to the numbers. Musk is an amazing guy doing Tesla, SpaceX, and the tunnel stuff. I am excited for the Tesla Semi that is coming soon because I hope it helps transition to more electric vehicles.

If it wasn't for Federal subsidies Musk would have been **** up long ago.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

If it wasn't for Federal subsidies Musk would have been **** up long ago.

You're making him sound like a farmer.

 

[Grumpycat]

Tiny single-piston hydrogen engine repackages internal combustion

This is news to me and sounds to be in testing at some level.

You know regular ignition engines can run off hydrogen, or be supplemented with hydrogen injection?

A widespread perpetual motion scheme "to make your car run off of water!" is to use power from the car's battery for electrolysis of water into H2 and O2, then feed that into the intake and observe a significant power boost if using enough.

Problem is how the electrolysis consumes more power than what the engine is boosted. Proponents claim to be developing more efficient means of electrolysis but the fundamental thermodynamics and chemistry says it will always take more energy to pull H2 and O2 apart than can be released putting them back together. Perhaps someone will figure out how to do it with algae and sunlight cheap enough that efficiency be damned. Yet there is still the problem of energy loss compressing gasses into a volume practical for transportation.

 

[Grumpycat]

If it wasn't for Federal subsidies Musk would have been **** up long ago.

That is an oft-repeated lazy lie.

All Federal subsidies for which Tesla qualified expired in 2016. The programs are still in place and that I know of Toyota is the only other manufacturer to exhaust the Federal tax credit (for hybrids).

The one thing Tesla still gets is the CARB state "clean vehicle credits" which are earned selling vehicles meeting specs which are supposed to support clean air. These credits are necessary to be allowed to sell vehicles CARB does not like such as diesel pickup trucks. If GM, FCA, Toyota, Subaru, Ford, etc, sold enough vehicles meeting CARB specs then they wouldn't have to buy clean air credits from Tesla.

Yes, if you live in a CARB state then Tesla is the one making it possible for you to purchase a new conventional vehicle. Credits are traded in a private marketplace so its not known how much they are really worth. A lot because Nissan, FCA, and Honda have sold "compliance cars" for far less than any sane person believes the cost of manufacture, only for the clean vehicle credits allowing them to sell conventional vehicles. At one time a Fiat 500e could be leased for $99/month for 2 years. Nissan has subsidized the price of LEAF for same reason. When I last looked a couple years ago wholesale auto auction lots in CA were overflowing with 2 year old off-lease Fiat 500e with asking price of $4700. 2 year old off-lease LEAF was under $10k. Market flooded with subsidized leases all to avoid buying credits from Tesla. Or maybe it was because Tesla didn't have enough credits to fill the demand?

 

[goeduck]

You're making him sound like a farmer.

T#&s Up like a dairy cow?

 

[3930dave]

If it wasn't for Federal subsidies Musk would have been **** up long ago.

I tend to view him as a tech startup, but in that respect he behaves more like a traditional automaker.

Rgds, D.

 

[PuffyC]

Nissan has subsidized the price of LEAF for same reason. When I last looked a couple years ago wholesale auto auction lots in CA were overflowing with 2 year old off-lease Fiat 500e with asking price of $4700. 2 year old off-lease LEAF was under $10k.

Back in the Before Times when going to an office to do work was a thing people did, I'd walk past a huge row of Leafs all plugged in and charging every day. It was probably the single most common car model in the entire parking lot and the people all said basically what you did - the lease deals make it a no brainer. These were people with 2nd homes who might drive a McLaren or Ferrari on the weekends (true story for 2 of them at least) so it wasn't just about the money and saving the planet. They loved the deals but they really loved their Leafs too, and for a commuter appliance they were about perfect.

 

[goeduck]

for a commuter appliance they were about perfect.

Agree . Particularly if you can charge them on the company dime.

 

[5030]

You're making him sound like a farmer.

Spoken like a true suburban rat....

 

[5030]

and for a commuter appliance they were about perfect.

When people start referring to an automobile as an 'appliance'., I start wondering about them. Not a dishwasher but then maybe it is...

All I know is, out here in flyover country where it's at least 30 miles to the grocery, electric vehicles will always be nothing more that a curiosity. Something to be treated as a toy not as a necessity at least in my lifetime. Other than my cousin visiting from Chicago, there has never been a plug in on this road....and I had to 'plug him in' last time he came, he was low of 'fuel'. Least it was my 220 circuit. I do like his Tesla SUV but I would never pay the asking price. Way beyond my comfort zone though I've driven it and it goes like hell.... least while it has juice. No where to 'fill up' here anyway. except my shop...lol

 

[Gale Hawkins]

University of Michigan researchers lay out hurdles for Li-metal, solid-state batteries

It sounds like understanding the technical knowledge needed to make the Lithium solid state economical for EV use is making progress in the labs.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

You're making him sound like a farmer.

But farmers produce something we need.

 

[MossRoad]

You're making him sound like a farmer.

OUCH!

 

[MossRoad]

Spoken like a true suburban rat....

Hey, I'm a farmer(tree farm) and have taken government hand outs, and found the comment amusing, yet true. It is the truth. Anyone that has taken government assistance in any form has taken government assistance. Plain and simple.

 

[MossRoad]

But farmers produce something we need.

40% of the U.S. corn crop is converted to ethanol. Think about that for a while. Especially in the context of this discussion.