Kioti vs LS buying advice

[carl_lopezIs]

Hi everyone - I've been doing quite a bit of research, I've been to a couple dealers, but I need some advice to help narrow things down a bit further.

I have 18 acres of partially cleared land. In the short term I will need to build and maintain 1000' of gravel road through a grass field, dig a septic, trench for power, trench for water, and do some general thinning and clean up of undergrown and blackberries. Long term I'll be maintaining that gravel drive, putting in a decent garden, caring for an orchard, mowing about 8 acres a couple times a year, and doing miscellaneous building and digging tasks.
I live on an island (with ferry service), so rentals aren't very practical or cost effective, so I need to find one piece of equipment to do all of that! So, I'm looking at a new compact tractor with a FEL and backhoe. And then I'll pick up a box blade, rotary cutter, pto wood chipper, and some pallet forks used over the next couple months.

I've narrowed my search down to a Kioti or LS tractor, since the dealer I like sells both. The other dealer near me is a Kubota dealer and their prices are crazy high compared to the LS/Kioti dealer.
I'm considering the options below. Some of my decision will come down to availability and pricing, but while I'm waiting to hear back this coming week with some additional quotes and ETAs from the dealer, I figured I might reach out and see if anyone had some advice!


Kioti CK4010se synchro shuttle
Kioti CK4010se HST
Kioti DK4510 synchro shuttle
Kioti DK4210se HST

LS MT240H synchro shuttle
LS MT240HE HST
LS MT345E synchro shuttle
LS MT345HE HST

That's quite a few options I know, but it's essentially just a synchro shuttle and HST option in two frame sizes for each brand.

Looking at the spec sheets, the LS tractors seem in general to be a bit less feature rich, they lose more HP from engine to PTO, and they are a bit cheaper. But their lift capacities and hydraulic flow are better than equivalent Kiotis.
I went to the dealer and drove a number of them around, and the Kiotis seemed to be more refined, but I don't need that. Simplicity is nice, especially since I'll be doing as much of the maintenance on my own as possible. HST is incredibly easy, but I actually enjoyed the synchro shuttle. Granted, I wasn't doing a ton of FEL loader work at the dealer.. so that might change.
I know HST vs any kind of gear transmission is hotly debated on here, but having read a million of those threads, and talked to the head tech at the dealer, my conclusions on that topic are that a HST will cost more to maintain and suck a bit more fuel, but it will likely outlast the clutch on a synchro shuttle tractor that is used for a reasonable amount of FEL work. So over the lifetime of the tractor the maintenance and repair costs might end up equal.
So it comes down to usability. HST wins for the FEL work I'll do building the road and structures. Synchro shuttle wins for mowing and probably garden work.

In all, they seem like very comparable tractors, and they're from the same dealer, so the typical advice of drive them, narrow it down, and then pick the dealer you like doesn't work here.


So - that's a super long post - what do people think? LS or Kioti? Any features or big things I'm missing? Do either Kioti or LS make a more reliable machine? Should I avoid either of those trannys from either of these brands? Are the CK or MT2 options too small? Are the DK or MT3 options too big?

 

[Yjmoose]

My only helpful thought for you would be that my LS mt225he has cruise control, I would think the higher HP models would to. So when you are doing those tasks that require constant speed (brush hogging) you just set the cruise. I like my LS, the Hydro is great.

 

[Jstpssng]

LS is still "the new kid on the block" and I believe that they are currently underpriced, which means less or no depreciation for a longer term. However, both manufacturers make good tractors so it comes down to which you like best.

Here's a suggestion which a TBN member once made to another poster with the same question. Put names in a hat of which tractors you are interested in, close your eyes and draw a tag. Then without opening your eyes; which one do you hope that you drew?

 

[rademamj1]

Right now I have the CK4010SE HST and with over 700hrs so far no issues. I have seen and used the DK4210SE HST and is a very polished and highly reliable tractor. I favor HST models due to loader work and recommend the SSQA. You will find the loader, with either the bucket or the pallet forks attached, will be used almost every day. Wether its moving equipment, picking up debris or simply moving dirt or gravel, that loader becomes invaluable and used often. HST makes it all incredibly efficient.

Consider getting your tractor with two sets of rear remotes, in case you do get a backhoe.

 

[Cycledude]

I am a very happy LS owner but it sounds like you prefer the Kioti so you might as well buy Kioti .

 

[JCoastie]

As noted above, my LS MT240HE has cruise control (can lock the pedal) it holds where it is at, but won't adjust speed vs terrain.

 

[34Willys]

I believe Kioti also has the cruise control option on both CK and DK lines.

 

[Huntermc01]

Hi, I'm also trying to decide between the LS or Kioti brand for my purchase.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I don't know anything about the Kioti but I have a Farmtrac DTC 360 that I bought new in 2006 and it has never been back to the shop, only minor repairs that I have been able to do, they were made by LS so they have some background in tractor manufacturing.

 

[Milo]

....So it comes down to usability. HST wins for the FEL work I'll do building the road and structures. Synchro shuttle wins for mowing and probably garden work....

Hydro is much more efficient for mowing because you can slow down and speed up as conditions dictate such as turns, thin grass, thick grass, maneuvering around trees and other obstacles, rather than just plod along in a gear tractor in 2-high.

 

[rademamj1]

Interestingly, many of the Kioti tractor dealers around my region, also carry the LS line of tractors. But certainly, what ever you choose as your first tractor ownership, recommend HST.

 

[GSVette]

I own an LS and am very happy with- that said, I wouldn’t advise against a Kioti . During my long, arduous and agonizing years long tractor research project I had it finally narrowed down to Yanmar, LS and Kioti. LS won out because I got a really good deal on one after Yanmar deal fell out of contention because he would not drop below 40k ( which was my pain point)-LS dealer had an XR4155HC fully optioned from factory ( w/ TNT, third function and filled tires added in)- out the door for less than $34k.

 

[shooterdon]

You will not regret either machine. I like HST but you need to decide what is best for the majority of your tasks....BTW worrying about the minimal difference in fuel consumption is foolish. i doubt you will save $50/year.

Kioti was on my list but lack of a dealer killed them for me. Happy with the LS so far.

Tire selection is important too!

 

[rbstern]

I suspect you will be happy with any of those. Both brands make good tractors, and the size and HP range you are focused on seem appropriate for the tasks you describe. For me, what sealed the deal is the cost of the factory backhoe bundle. LS was substantially less, out-the-door with frame mounted backhoe, than I could find on any competing tractor.

You might want to look at small details the dealer can demo for you for those models, like ease of mounting/dismounting the backhoe. Probably similar for both brands, but sometimes a small detail can make it more difficult. Or fuel tank position/ease of refueling. It's that kind of stuff that makes daily living with a tractor more or less satisfying.

 

[carl_lopezIs]

I own an LS and am very happy with- that said, I wouldn’t advise against a Kioti . During my long, arduous and agonizing years long tractor research project I had it finally narrowed down to Yanmar, LS and Kioti. LS won out because I got a really good deal on one after Yanmar deal fell out of contention because he would not drop below 40k ( which was my pain point)-LS dealer had an XR4155HC fully optioned from factory ( w/ TNT, third function and filled tires added in)- out the door for less than $34k.

With FEL and backhoe the CK4010se HST is roughly quoted at $30k. And the MT240 HE is at $28k. Not a huge difference, but that $2k represents some decent money for implements! But at that price point the Kioti includes an additional set of rear remotes, a third function for the FEL, cruise control, etc. I'll have to check on whether the LS includes cruise control and what else may or may not come at that price point.

You will not regret either machine. I like HST but you need to decide what is best for the majority of your tasks....BTW worrying about the minimal difference in fuel consumption is foolish. i doubt you will save $50/year.

Kioti was on my list but lack of a dealer killed them for me. Happy with the LS so far.

Tire selection is important too!

I think HST is probably the better call. The dealer said that the Kioti in particular is a pretty fuel efficient HST. I doubt the LS is much worse. And I don't see myself spending much time at all with heavy ground engaging implements where a geared tractor really shines.
I think industrial tires are a no brainer for me. The ag tires would tear up my gravel drive, and I won't have a "lawn" so I don't need the more gentle turf tires. I like the thicker sidewalls of the industrial tires too.

I suspect you will be happy with any of those. Both brands make good tractors, and the size and HP range you are focused on seem appropriate for the tasks you describe. For me, what sealed the deal is the cost of the factory backhoe bundle. LS was substantially less, out-the-door with frame mounted backhoe, than I could find on any competing tractor.

You might want to look at small details the dealer can demo for you for those models, like ease of mounting/dismounting the backhoe. Probably similar for both brands, but sometimes a small detail can make it more difficult. Or fuel tank position/ease of refueling. It's that kind of stuff that makes daily living with a tractor more or less satisfying.

Backhoe mount and dismount is super similar for both brands. They both have a subframe that lives on the backhoe and hooks onto a couple brackets on the tractor. Just put the bucket and outriggers down, adjust to loosen a couple pins. disconnect the hydraulics, and pull the tractor forward. And you can leave the 3pt hitch in place on both.

 

[carl_lopezIs]

In response to many of the earlier posts - it sounds like Kioti and LS are both reliable machines, even if LS is a newer brand - they come with experience making equipment. Good to know that I can be confident in the quality of the machine with either manufacturer.

 

[GSVette]

I’m not sure what the MT series has standard but my XR came standard with cruise and 3 rear remotes-the 3 rear remotes were a huge selling point as I absolutely wanted TnT but still wanted a set of ports available for some other function ( side shift, wing lift etc.) should I ever need it. 3rd function was not standard but I negotiated it and the TnT into the purchase price.

What I wish my XR had is linked pedal functionality ( which I think some of the new MTs do) and a telescopic steering wheel. They are both nice to haves that weren’t available.

 

[Username Taken]

I’m not sure what the MT series has standard but my XR came standard with cruise and 3 rear remotes-the 3 rear remotes were a huge selling point as I absolutely wanted TnT but still wanted a set of ports available for some other function ( side shift, wing lift etc.) should I ever need it. 3rd function was not standard but I negotiated it and the TnT into the purchase price.

What I wish my XR had is linked pedal functionality ( which I think some of the new MTs do) and a telescopic steering wheel. They are both nice to haves that weren’t available.

The XR is the LS Premium series, It is a nice, well-equipped tractor, IMO

 

[GSVette]

The XR is the LS Premium series, It is a nice, well-equipped tractor, IMO

I agree-just wished they’d had linked pedal and a telescopic steering wheel-my only real gripes, frankly.

 

[carl_lopezIs]

Well - I heard back from the dealer now that he had heard from LS and Kioti re: the next couple months of expected deliveries and my choices have been significantly reduced. It's now one of the 3 options below:


Including a backhoe and FEL:

CK4010 hst $28499
CK4010se hst $29799
MT345E (synchro shuttle) $29999



Thoughts?


Just so we are all on the same page, as far as I can tell, here is what the SE has that the non-SE doesn't:

2 rear remotes
Extendable link arms with quick adjust sway control
Rubber floor mat
Cruise control
Linked Pedals
Nicer seat
Tilt wheel
rear view mirrors
no clutch

The price is only $1200 different because with the backhoe, the dealer will have to add rear remotes anyway. But probably only 1 set, not 2.


The MT345E is a synchro shuttle with 8F and 8R I believe. 5 more HP. More loader capacity, more digging power and a longer reach with the backhoe.
The biggest issue with this is that I could have a pretty significant wait for the backhoe.. Dealer doesn't know when he'll get one in.



It's not really a fair comparison between LS and Kioti anymore, so this isn't as much about the brand. It's more about the features and size of the tractor.