Your towing rigs and trailers

[Jstpssng]

Small displacement engines usually live short lives once the man sized loads get hooked to em

I've always wondered that. Light trucks are fine for occasional use, but if you are going to be working it hard all of the time it's best to spend the money and get the proper tool for the job the first time.

 

[groundcover]

Very happy with the 7.3 so far. Came out of a '14 F350 6.2. The '20 has substantially more power with the ten speed and gets 3 mpg better.

 

[Hay Dude]

I've always wondered that. Light trucks are fine for occasional use, but if you are going to be working it hard all of the time it's best to spend the money and get the proper tool for the job the first time.

Small engines have to rev more than large displacement engines to achieve torque. That increases wear and decreases longevity.
Gas engine have to rev a lot more than Diesel engines to achieve the same torque. That increases wear and fuel consumption.

Thats why serious trucks have large displacement and relatively low HP Diesel engines compared to new diesel pickups.

New Ford powerstroke has more HP than an L-9 Cummins, or about the same as a lower rated N-14 Cummins, but wont pull as much....guaranteed.

 

[ArlyA]

We are quite happy with our 2019 ranger with its towing capacity and have used it for that purpose, very much. Its 260 something HP engine was one of the reasons we got it.

 

[nisaacs]

Small engines have to rev more than large displacement engines to achieve torque. That increases wear and decreases longevity.
Gas engine have to rev a lot more than Diesel engines to achieve the same torque. That increases wear and fuel consumption.

Thats why serious trucks have large displacement and relatively low HP Diesel engines compared to new diesel pickups.

New Ford powerstroke has more HP than an L-9 Cummins, or about the same as a lower rated N-14 Cummins, but wont pull as much....guaranteed.

In general I agree. However, the 6.7 Cummins is in trucks up to class 7, so is the 6.7 Ford (F-750). Not that I would want them but the fact remains, they are out there. I have (3) 5.9 Cummins trucks, they will all pull a house, but, they are only 359 cubic inch. Yet, they will out pull the 428 Ford, 460 Ford and the new 7.3.... 454 GM , 502 GM or the big block Mopars.

 

[TMGT]

In general I agree. However, the 6.7 Cummins is in trucks up to class 7, so is the 6.7 Ford (F-750). Not that I would want them but the fact remains, they are out there. I have (3) 5.9 Cummins trucks, they will all pull a house, but, they are only 359 cubic inch. Yet, they will out pull the 428 Ford, 460 Ford and the new 7.3.... 454 GM , 502 GM or the big block Mopars.

You forgot the 5.9 cummins will also outpull a 7.3ps and cat C-7 (7.2L)

Driven all 3 for a lot of miles in similar applications (class 6 rollback's and F550 towing heavy) all take the smaller Cummins any day over those larger displacement engines.

 

[Skagit]

You forgot the 5.9 cummins will also outpull a 7.3ps and cat C-7 (7.2L)

Driven all 3 for a lot of miles in similar applications (class 6 rollback's and F550 towing heavy) all take the smaller Cummins any day over those larger displacement engines.

Sure... If you turn them up. In stock form a 5.9 won't out pull anything, gutless dog of an engine. Sounds cool while you're being passed by everything else on the road though.








Flame suit on

 

[Snobdds]

Small engines have to rev more than large displacement engines to achieve torque. That increases wear and decreases longevity.
Gas engine have to rev a lot more than Diesel engines to achieve the same torque. That increases wear and fuel consumption.

Thats why serious trucks have large displacement and relatively low HP Diesel engines compared to new diesel pickups.

New Ford powerstroke has more HP than an L-9 Cummins, or about the same as a lower rated N-14 Cummins, but wont pull as much....guaranteed.

Dude...the ecoboost makes all it's torque around 2K rpm. It makes it's power in the same power band as a diesel, but it can rev if it wants.

The ecoboost is small but it is purpose built. 6 bolt mains and a crank with lots of bearing surface for its size. Piston oil coolers (squirters) and all forged internals.

I mean, not even a cummins can claim those stats.

 

[TMGT]

Sure... If you turn them up. In stock form a 5.9 won't out pull anything, gutless dog of an engine. Sounds cool while you're being passed by everything else on the road though.








Flame suit on

Only one of the 3 that was modded was the 7.3ps and it still struggled!

The CAT and Cummins were in almost identical trucks, '04 and '05 F650's with 21ft JerrDan steel beds, the only difference was the Cat was an extended cab, both had 5spd Allison's and same rear gear, both were dead stock. Both were the 230hp version.

The F550 was a '00, had a chip, straight exhaust and intake, aftermarket compressor wheel. 6spd manual with a 4.88 rear. Stock was 235hp. Pulled a 50ft car hauler.

At similar mileage the 5.9 had the least maintenance or repairs of the 3.

The medium duty 5.9's are tuned very different from the pickup versions of that timeframe.

 

[DavesTractor]

Small displacement engines usually live short lives once the man sized loads get hooked to em

I totally agree. To get 450/510 out of a little 3.5l engine, you simply cannot expect the longevity of doing the same out of twice as much displacement with half as much boost. But if you haven't driven a High Output twin turbo 3.5l, you will be surprised at how well they perform as a daily driver and light duty (think small boat to the lake occasionally) towing rig.

I put a supercharger on my 2013 Rubicon to try to squeeze a little performance out of the 3.6l v6 (285 HP stock) and in theory I have around 400 HP now. But the Raptor makes the Jeep, even with the blower, feel like a slug.

I'm a diesel guy that delivers every day with 6.7 Cummins pulling a 32' gooseneck. I know the difference between a toy truck and a real one, but man is the toy fun. And speed bump? What speed bump? Cushy.

 

[aczlan]

Small displacement engines usually live short lives once the man sized loads get hooked to em

Usually is correct. If it's built to handle the load (which both the 2.7L and 3.5L engines are reported to be), it will be fine.

Aaron Z

 

[Jstpssng]

So the question for some is; do I really want to bounce around in that rattly diesel pickup every day,,when a lighter, less expensive truck will pull my tractor for the few times that I need to every year?

 

[Snobdds]

The underlying theory comes down to duty cycles. Can these small engines making big power have the duty cycle of a light duty truck or a big rig. This is where the surface area of the crank bearings come into play. The ecoboost have giant crank bearings, even bigger than a 6.7 cummins. Like I said, they are purpose built to handle boost and torque. They are also made out of compacted graphite iron blocks, which are a lot stronger than the old cast iron blocks.

I know that a 6.7 powerstroke makes big power, but they can't make that power for long. They run out of cooling capacity even with the two radiators.

Big rigs have such big blocks and big radiators they can make high power for a lot longer than smaller trucks, even though the HP/ftlbs are getting a lot closer. The block is an actual heat sink on those things.

 

[DavesTractor]

I know that a 6.7 powerstroke makes big power, but they can't make that power for long. They run out of cooling capacity even with the two radiators.

Years ago when we first started our business I had an older Ford 7.3idi with a Banks Turbo. I turned up the pump and greatly increased the HP, but was never able to really use that extra power due to engine overheating, and I toasted the automatic trans a couple of times. You need the entire system to work together.

 

[two_bit_score]

I've always wondered that. Light trucks are fine for occasional use, but if you are going to be working it hard all of the time it's best to spend the money and get the proper tool for the job the first time.

Big engine working easy lasts longer than little engine working hard.

 

[Hay Dude]

The underlying theory comes down to duty cycles. Can these small engines making big power have the duty cycle of a light duty truck or a big rig. This is where the surface area of the crank bearings come into play. The ecoboost have giant crank bearings, even bigger than a 6.7 cummins. Like I said, they are purpose built to handle boost and torque. They are also made out of compacted graphite iron blocks, which are a lot stronger than the old cast iron blocks.

I know that a 6.7 powerstroke makes big power, but they can't make that power for long. They run out of cooling capacity even with the two radiators.

Big rigs have such big blocks and big radiators they can make high power for a lot longer than smaller trucks, even though the HP/ftlbs are getting a lot closer. The block is an actual heat sink on those things.

Lets not get too crazy....:laughing:
If you are suggesting an 2-3 liter eco boost gas engine is in the same league as a 6.7L Cummins, I got some prime swampland in Arkansas I can sell you for 100k/acre
Do you really think this 6.7L Cummins powered Freighliner 6x6 with a water tank could be powered by a Ford eco boost gas engine and last more that a few hundred miles?

 

[Hay Dude]

Big engine working easy lasts longer than little engine working hard.

I just laugh at these kids with their new trucks with “ 400 horsepower “ thinking theyre even in the same league as a true medium or heavy duty truck engine...:confused2:
Heck I bet a little DT360 or DT466 would outlast an eco boost engine by 3X in anything much above a 15,000GVWR truck.

 

[Hay Dude]

The underlying theory comes down to duty cycles. Can these small engines making big power have the duty cycle of a light duty truck or a big rig. This is where the surface area of the crank bearings come into play. The ecoboost have giant crank bearings, even bigger than a 6.7 cummins. Like I said, they are purpose built to handle boost and torque. They are also made out of compacted graphite iron blocks, which are a lot stronger than the old cast iron blocks.

I know that a 6.7 powerstroke makes big power, but they can't make that power for long. They run out of cooling capacity even with the two radiators.

Big rigs have such big blocks and big radiators they can make high power for a lot longer than smaller trucks, even though the HP/ftlbs are getting a lot closer. The block is an actual heat sink on those things.

If you needed to pull 15,000lbs or more up mountains, what would you rather have a 6.7 powerstoke or a 3.5L ecoboost?
BTW many of the diesels have had CGI blocks for 10+ years.

 

[Snobdds]

Lets not get too crazy....:laughing:
If you are suggesting an 2-3 liter eco boost gas engine is in the same league as a 6.7L Cummins, I got some prime swampland in Arkansas I can sell you for 100k/acre
Do you really think this 6.7L Cummins powered Freighliner 6x6 with a water tank could be powered by a Ford eco boost gas engine and last more that a few hundred miles?

The internal bearing size is actually bigger than a 6.7 cummins. Add in the forged internals and piston coolers...

 

[Snobdds]

If you needed to pull 15,000lbs or more up mountains, what would you rather have a 6.7 powerstoke or a 3.5L ecoboost?
BTW many of the diesels have had CGI blocks for 10+ years.

When you have to use extremes for an example, I will too...besides, 15k is far outside the ecoboost rating.

Why not use a DD15?

That's the thing with extremes...we can one up each other all day.

Your right, the CGI came out in 2011 with the 6.7 powerstroke. A lot of tech from that motor flowed over to the 3.5 ecoboost. But the purpose of the 3.5 and 6.7 are different, agree?