Hydro or Shuttle for the long haul?

[ptsg]

Not so; you are making the same mistake by making an assumption without the facts.

I admit that Kubota chose an unusual way to do this in the tractor world, but if you want to learn how HST + works, you need to show on on your illustration how the high/low gearing is accomplished....not just a switch, but find out what that switch actually does.
rScotty

*Remember, the HST + gives us high or low in each of the three ranges both in Forward and Reverse.

Yes, by changing the swash plate angle on the 2 Stage Motor, exactly as Rick said and the drawing shows. The pump still provided the forward and reverse.

Kubota didn't choose an unusual way to do it. This is exactly how most two speed systems are done on excavators and skid steer loaders.

 

[RickB]

I suggest you look up how the HST+ differs before making those types of comments.
In particular you should look up the two speed rear axle as used in HST +.
That way you can correct your impression of how they operate.
rScott

You could benefit from heeding your advice. While you are at it, expand your investigation of the availability and popularity of IVT and CVT transmissions in tractors above 30 hp. Your updated description of HST+ splitting the three ranges is far more accurate than claiming the offering has 6 distinct ranges. The range selector has 3 choices.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Jeez.... the OP wants a small 25 hp tractor.....

 

[Blue Mule]

Tractor reliability is primarily related to the prudence and experience of the operator(s), not the hardware.

How prudent do you consider yourself? Will you be the sole operator?





It seems likely that before ten years pass that tractors up to around 2,500 pounds bare tractor weight will be electric powered by batteries.

Quite likely we will see subcompact tractors with battery power within five years.

I would hold on to the New Holland for two or three more years.

I'm very "prudent" and take good care of my stuff. And, funny you mention that because one of the reasons I want to buy a new one now is because going forward tractors are only going to become more expensive and complicated. I have little to zero interest in any vehicle or tractor powered by electricity.

Why? Money burning a hole in your pocket?

My pockets have been full of holes for years. If I had a fortune when I die they won't bury me with it, somebody else will spend it.

Six ranges HST are available on all of the Kubotas that have the transmission they call, "HST Plus" or sometimes "HST+". That gives three ranges in the HST plus a electric-over-hydraulic switch on the steering column that allows your left hand can switch on the go between a syncronized high and low speed gear in the rear axle. That gives 6 forward and 6 reverse. Very handy. We use it a lot.

More gears just makes sense. Kubota's HST+ with an electrically shifted rear axle is a simple time-proven way to get a lot more efficiency out of a HST and should also save on internal transmission wear.

As for how long two speed rear axles have been around, Our old 1958 GMC farm truck has a similar two speed rear end - although it isn't synchronized like Kubota's is.

I doubt that Kubota is the only one. It wouldn't surprise me if other tractor brands are offering something similar, but I haven't looked.
rScotty

Kubota got marked off my list the minute I sat on one. The "treadle" is horrible. I can see that cramping a calf muscle in no time. Just awful design. The mind boggling part is that the idiots put the brake pedal directly above the forward control of the treadle. Whoever did that should be fired. And the tractor looks like something from a 3rd world country throughout the operator station. And they're more money. Mind boggling how they sell so many.

Jeez.... the OP wants a small 25 hp tractor.....

Lol yeah, I know how forums go. I'm a member of a dozen other ones.

Today I'm going to look at a Deere 3025D and 3025E. One gear with a shuttle, the other hydro. I have learned today after looking through specs that the shuttle version is 552 lbs. heavier which is HUGE for loader work and general capability. The shuttle version also lifts more at the rear and front both. Seems like a heavier, more capable machine. The hydro by the numbers seems more light duty, even in the exact same tractor. Interesting....

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Someone else had mentioned the Kioti CK2610. That is a very capable machine. It is available in a gear/shuttle version. Another one mentioned is the Branson....I know.... hard to find, not many dealers... BUT they have a 2515 series. Check out the specs on it.... blows all the other brands away! Not a bad price either! Don't forget LS.... they make the small compacts for NH, plus sell the LS brand for less.

The 3025 is a nice unit. One thing to keep in mind is that JD has their own proprietary attachments.... I am sure that you are aware of that already. That alone steers me away, followed by the cost...

Good luck again!

 

[big bubba]

when you say you're considering shuttle, is it hydraulic w/wet clutch pack? highly recommend this set up over single dry clutch plate that you have to shift w/clutch depressed every fw/rev move. had that manual set up on an MX5000 & hated it (with 1s& 2nd unsync to boot)

that said, if you're getting up there in years, how are your knees holding out? that's one of the most common complaints i hear from older operators & manual shift go w/hyd shuttle if you go gear

std gear is all i've owned & intend to own. couple that w/hyd shuttle & it's the best set up in all my years of tractoring good luck

 

[5030]

I have 6000 hours on one of my hydraulic shuttle Kubby's and 2000 on the other and other than routine maintenance and gearbox oil changes, neither have ever been touched. Both have loaders and both farm. I wouldn't have anything else and never a hydrostat because of the parasitic power loss.

 

[bigtiller]

That is a great idea. If TBN members who have experienced problems with hydrostatic transmissions would be kind enough to share the rest of us could benefit.

Problems are so rare that they are seldom talked about. But, my 2720 hydrostatic transmission failed.
I bought it new in 2012 and luckily for me, it was covered under warranty.
I was 1.5 miles away from home, on my way to a garden tilling job.
I pulled up to a stop sign, stopped, waited my turn and pushed the go pedal and I went nowhere.

My dealer was about a mile away from that stop sign and they had a man available to load it up on a trailer and haul it back to their shop.
I don't recall what the problem was, but it was serious enough that they decided to replaced the transmission.

This is my seventeenth new tractor from Deere and the only transmission problem ever.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

I have a shuttle. Plenty of times I wished I had a hydro. Mostly because when doing loader work I have to sit up from my more relaxed position to shift into reverse. Yeah, a bit lazy. But when you do it 100 times in an afternoon of loader work it gets old. The dealer I bought from doesn't even stock hydro transmission tractors. I thought that was kind of crazy. At the time I really didn't care. They are the closest Branson dealers to me (which at the time of purchase I considered extremely important), and actually one of the oldest in the US.

 

[the old grind]

I don't notice parasitic power loss or have a way to measure it, esp since I always have the right HST range for each task and maybe enough hp to begin with.

My CUTs only use clutch to start or to engage mechanical PTO. I've had two 50hp Deeres but sold them because my knee, hip, and lower back didn't like me clutching to shift.

If one is used to HST they may find that de-clutching others to prevent stalling requires timing as well as a pedal stomp or lever grab. Digging ruts when cutting a pile got old as my whole leg got tired and my butt got sore. (6' 2", 175 lbs) Don't really miss the Deeres or their hp and HD FELs.

I mentioned the Ck2610 for being a top performer among 'emissions-free' CUTs. Look closely at every detail and see a 30hp 1.6L CUT with the hp 'de-tuned' to avoid emissions stuff. I picked up my 1.5L NH TC33DA when parked next to a Ck2610. You'd have though the hp ratings were the opposite. I was tempted to pay another $6K and get the Kioti instead, but the dealer wasn't MIE and there's that (shudder) color.

IIRC there is one other <25hp tractor that was as all that as the Kioti. Seems it's a Mitsu, and not one re-badged for other brands as some models are. (At least it's red.) btw, IMO blail mower beats BH for WOC/hp.