What if .......

[Tchamp]

I recently purchased a 2001 Pt 2422 that has the upgraded 25 hp motor. The question I have is if I installed a larger oil cooler to increase my cooling capability on the engine and on the hydraulics, do you think it would be sufficient to operate a brush hog, or finish mower? I know about the GPH and thinking of possibly putting larger pump too, Just asking. Really thinking about expanding the capabilities of this unit and wanted others input. Thanks

I am also looking at setting up a three point setup with a pump to run small tractor implements, bush hog, finish mower, tiller, etc. your thoughts appreciated,

I can see using a bush with quick disconnect attachment to get further down on the banks of a lake that you wouldn’t normally be able to reach ....

 

[m5040]

I believe the specs between the 1400 and 2400 are the same as far as flow and pressures (you have enough). It seems PT couldn't find a good safe place for a large hydraulic cooler, so if you find a spot that will work for you it would then increase the duty cycle.

Just FYI, it also depends when brush hogging on how heavy the material is. I use a PT180 on 1/3 throttle to do brush work because it is under a tree canopy and grows sparse, but woody. I drive in, and it works hard for a few seconds then back up and repeat. More heat comes from the drive motors in my opinion. But if I was to try doing 2' high hay field it would heat up quick.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm guessing your 2001 2422 has the same pumps as my 2001 425, but you should confirm with Terry at PowerTrac.

If it's like the 425 of the same year, there would be 3 pumps.
- pump 1 is the tram pump, or variable volume pump, that drives the wheel motors.
- pump 2 is the MAIN PTO pump and provides power to things like stump cutters, brush cutters, mowers, etc.... and feeds the LARGE CONNECTORS on the FEL arms.
- pump 3 is the AUX PTO pump and provides power to the steering valve, then, through a power-beyond port on the steering valve, it feeds the 3-spool FEL valve bank which provides UP/DOWN with 1 spool, DUMP/CURL with 2 spool, and the AUX PTO with 3 spool.

The AUX PTO is the lever that operates the quick attach on the FEL arms, and is also used for things like power angling a snow blade, or operating a grapple. The AUX PTO feeds the SMALL CONNECTORS on the FEL arms.

If all of this is true, I don't think you need a larger pump for anything. You'd definitely need cooling capacity if you were going to run brush cutters or mowers.

You'd also have no need to add a pump to run things on the rear of the machine. You'd just plumb hoses from the existing MAIN PTO to the rear of the machine if you wanted to run high-flow implements back there.

Personally, I'd not want to run anything powered behind the machine if at all possible, just because everything is already set up on the front of the machine.

Anyhow, start with a call to Terry to see exactly what your machine is currently configured with, and, if you can, post some clear pictures of your engine compartment and hydraulic components, etc... and that may help us understand what you have in there.

 

[Tchamp]

Pics of my pumps

 

[MossRoad]

That looks very similar to mine. The tram pump is on one side of the engine and the MAIN PTO and AUX PTO pumps are on the other. I see you have the hydroback cable that operates the treadle like mine as well. The MAIN PTO pump section is the one with the larger hoses and the AUX PTO pump is the one towards the rear with the smaller hoses.

All 3 pumps are always on with these machines. There's no way to disengage them.

The tram pump has a swash plate that is in a neutral position when the treadle is centered. Therefore, it isn't pumping fluid to the wheel motors. But it is circulating makeup oil all the time as I understand it, to and from the hydraulic reservoir.

The two sections of the PTO pumps are always circulating as well. The AUX always provides flow to the steering valve, then through that valve, out to the FEL valve bank, then back to the hydraulic reservoir. The MAIN always pumps from the reservoir through the pump and back to the reservoir until you hit the electric diverter switch, which then directs the flow out the FEL arms through the LARGE connectors, through an implement, back through the other LARGE connector, then back to the reservoir. If you have no implement on the LARGE connectors and flip that electric PTO switch, it will immediately open the bypass on the electric diverter valve and may kill the engine. You don't want to do that very often, as it's not good for the system. Also, if the MAIN pto electric switch is left in the ON position, the tractor should not be able to start. It'll act like it has a dead battery and nothing will happen.

Ask me how I know this??? :laughing: I've done it a couple times myself and immediately get upset because the machine won't start. After I think about it a couple times, I flip the PTO switch to OFF and the machine starts right up.

So do yourself a favor, and make checking the PTO switch is in the OFF position part of each startup sequence before you turn the key. Good habits reduce mental stress.

 

[Tchamp]

I am wanting to use a pump like this to run three point attachments on a fabricated three point quick attach rig for my PT.

The reason for this is I have several small tractor implements and wish to continue using them instead of parting with them I like the idea of adapting rather than selling all I have only to buy more.... .

 

[MossRoad]

Use a pump like this to run three point attachments on a fabricated three point quick attach rig for my PT.View attachment 678996

That's not a pump. That's a motor.

Some people have talked about using a splined shaft like that to operate standard 3PT implements on their PT's. I think one or two might have. I cannot recall which member(s) did that.

The concerns are getting a motor with the proper displacement to run the implement at 540 RPMs (the standard RPMS of tractor PTOs), with the Gallons Per Minute that your machine puts out. Then there's the problem of matching up a driveshaft and linkages and fabrication of brackets to hold that motor to the implement, etc....

Most folks have concluded it's easier to skip the splined motor, drive shaft, brackets, linkages, etc... and adapt a properly sized hydraulic motor directly to an old 3pt implement with a lovejoy connector and power it with hoses from the MAIN PTO.

This is exactly what PowerTrac does with it's implements. Each implement has it's own hydraulic motor and a quick attach plate. It makes things so much easier.

If I were going to adapt a 3pt implement to use on my PT425, say, a snow blower, for example, I'd just figure out the RPMs I want the blower to spin at, and find a hydraulic motor with the proper displacement to achieve that RPM at my given 8 Gallons Per Minute that my 425 can produce. Easy peasy.

 

[Tchamp]

But wouldn’t you have to buy a pump motor for each implement, or configure the one to each implement each time used?

I was thinking one three point setup would be more cost effective. IMO

 

[MossRoad]

But wouldn’t you have to buy a pump motor for each implement, or configure the one to each implement each time used?

I was thinking one three point setup would be more cost effective. IMO

Yes, if you're going to use multiple 3pt implements, it would be more cost effective to have just one splined motor to drive all of the implements.

 

[agjones]

I've converted several tractor implements to hydraulic power. Mostly for the 1850. However, 3.4ci displacement in a motor will yield 540rpm at 8gpm flow. I feel like the losses to inefficiency gobble up too much power on the 25hp engine.

One exception I plan to convert this winter is a 3pt string trimmer for fences.

I do have a 3pt hitch added to my 425. Handy.

Keep in mind that you can get a solid 16-19hp compact tractor made to work tractor implements at the rear for 3k or less . My little Mitsubishi is great.

Heat is definitely the enemy. So your cooler thought is spot on.

If the 2422 is the one setup for the backhoe, be aware that the wheel motors are a limiting factor for things like mowing and travel intensive tasks. Ask Terry.

 

[ponytug]

Well, I don't know if it helps, but I did fab up a PTO splined motor to fit a wood chipper designed to run on a 3-point PTO drive. It is pretty straightforward to do, just use a hydraulic motor calculator to work out what would be 540rpm near your max gpm, and make sure that the motor can take the pressure of your PT hydraulics. Do double check that the net horsepower is what you need.

You could certainly make a QA plate with a hydraulic PTO motor on it with a 3-point mount to be able to run many different powered 3-point hitch implements. One thing to consider is how much weight you are adding, second, how far out the implement is going to end up (I am thinking about center of gravity, turning, and maneuvering) by the time you have your FEL, the QA plate, and the three point system.

For me, a one off, with no 3-point hitch and a PTO motor permanently just to the wood chipper made good sense for me, as I knew that I wasn't going to need to power a bunch of three point attachments, and I could put the QA plate near the center of gravity for the chipper, and bring the chipper center of mass close to the PT. A real 3-point hitch would have put the weight of the chipper about four feet out from the QA plate, which wasn't going to work for me.

YMMV, of course.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Tchamp]

I've converted several tractor implements to hydraulic power. Mostly for the 1850. However, 3.4ci displacement in a motor will yield 540rpm at 8gpm flow. I feel like the losses to inefficiency gobble up too much power on the 25hp engine.

One exception I plan to convert this winter is a 3pt string trimmer for fences.

I do have a 3pt hitch added to my 425. Handy.

Keep in mind that you can get a solid 16-19hp compact tractor made to work tractor implements at the rear for 3k or less . My little Mitsubishi is great.

Heat is definitely the enemy. So your cooler thought is spot on.

If the 2422 is the one setup for the backhoe, be aware that the wheel motors are a limiting factor for things like mowing and travel intensive tasks. Ask Terry.

I was hoping for 6-700 in building a three point rig and hydraulic motor configuration and not have to buy another tractor. I acquired the implements with some other equipment and a dead ya mar tractor, which the block is bad in

 

[agjones]

I hear you...but I think you'll be disappointed w implements like a tiller or brush mower. I'm not trying to be a downer in your idea.

Ask and if I can help you, I will.

I use this calculator:
Hydraulic Calculations | Fluid Power | Advanced Fluid Systems

 

[agjones]

I see in your profile that you are OTR. if you are this way, you are welcome to stop by and see 3pt on my 425.

 

[Tchamp]

I see in your profile that you are OTR. if you are this way, you are welcome to stop by and see 3pt on my 425.

Do you have pics?
Where is Jess up mill? Tried to google it but didn’t come up.

 

[Gravy]

If I recall correctly, your 2422 was designed around running a backhoe rather than sustained heavy loads like brush hogging. I don't believe the oil cooler and and fan will be adequate for those circumstances, especially with a more powerful replacement engine adding extra heat to the equation. I would definitely consult with Terry before going any farther.

 

[MossRoad]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As I recall on my PT425, the MAIN PTO PUMP is always running, as it's attached directly to the output shaft of the engine. The AUX PTO PUMP is piggybacked off the MAIN PTO PUMP, so it is always running as well.

I'm fairly certain the PT2422 is set up the same way.

It doesn't really matter if you're running an implement or not, the pump is always running and circulating fluid, and building up heat.

As I recall, the hydraulic cooler on my PT425 is plumbed into the return from the VARIABLE VOLUME PUMP or TRAM PUMP as some of us call it. I'm guessing that's because driving it around generates considerably more heat than the PTO pumps.

So yes, I'd definitely ask Terry at PowerTrac if you can run things like brush cutters, mowers, grinders, etc... on the PT422 if it doesn't have a cooler.

 

[ponytug]

I would be intrigued if there was a hydraulic cooler in the variable volume/ tram pump circuit. It would be under high pressure at least some of the time. The alternating high/low pressure seems to be...prone to failure, but what do I know?

Now, I am really curious.

I believe that on the 1445, the oil cooler is plumbed downstream of the PTO attachments. When not running attachments, the output of the PTO pump dumps straight back into the tank, so no cooling.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Tchamp]

I would be intrigued if there was a hydraulic cooler in the variable volume/ tram pump circuit. It would be under high pressure at least some of the time. The alternating high/low pressure seems to be...prone to failure, but what do I know?

Now, I am really curious.

I believe that on the 1445, the oil cooler is plumbed downstream of the PTO attachments. When not running attachments, the output of the PTO pump dumps straight back into the tank, so no cooling.

All the best,

Peter

I was just going to add additional cooling to the same hydraulic circuit in series with the original cooler to help drop temp of oil, I noticed the tank seems hotter than the oil cooler on the inlet and outlet, so I’m guessing that the tank has other returns that don’t get the benefit of the original cooler. I may even put the other cooler on on of the other returns to the tank, just plumb it in from the return going to the tank reservoir to the cooler then back into the tank reservoir.

 

[MossRoad]

I would be intrigued if there was a hydraulic cooler in the variable volume/ tram pump circuit. It would be under high pressure at least some of the time. The alternating high/low pressure seems to be...prone to failure, but what do I know?

Now, I am really curious.

I believe that on the 1445, the oil cooler is plumbed downstream of the PTO attachments. When not running attachments, the output of the PTO pump dumps straight back into the tank, so no cooling.

All the best,

Peter

Again, from what I've gathered over the years, and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken, because I want to understand my machine better...

The tram circuit is a closed loop that pushes fluid back and forth through the wheel motors depending on the direction of the swash plate as selected by the treadle. The only fluid it draws from the reservoir is the makeup for the internal charge pump, then it pushes that fluid back to the tank. I thought it was that line that had the oil cooler. I'll check my schematics when I get a chance.