Surprised how much block heater helps starting diesel

[Bavarian]

Almost 2 weeks ago I needed to go out an move snow and it was 20F outside. I had run the block heater for about an hour before going out but I was sure I should have run it longer and the tractor it would start hard due to the temp. I was surprised when after just 5 seconds on the glow plugs it started on the first turn.

A few days later I needed to run the tractor to clean up some of the mess I'd made with the bucket when moving snow (still learning) and it was 45F, night time low had been about 35. I didn't event think to turn on the block heater, I figured it was plenty warm outside. I ran the glow plugs for 5 seconds and it did not start the first try, ran the GPs again for 5 seconds and it started but not right away. I was surprised at how much harder it started than when it was 15 degrees cooler outside.

Today I needed to go out and use the tractor, it was 45 again, again night time low was about 35, I figured what the **** and turned the block heater on before I went out. It was only on for about 15 minutes and the tractor started right up the same as the day when it was 20F.

This is my first diesel and I'm just surprised at how much the block heater actually helps starting, even when it's not extremely cold outside. Hopefully it helps as much when it is 0F or below out there.

Just thought I'd share.

Having trouble to start a diesel at those temps, indicates a problem.
Using the glow plugs for 5 seconds only seems short for me. They don't heat much during that time.
What kind of engine do you have? Kubotas and Yanmar are known for good cold starters.
I wouldn't even bother to think about a heating option at those temps.

 

[mcfarmall]

Of course I have no idea if this applies to the way you use a block heater.
It is imperative that the heater not be in use when the tractor is running. Unplug the heater before starting and plug it in after shutdown.

During my delivery walk-around on my new Kubota M5660SUHD tractor, my salesman said to never run the engine with the block heater plugged in. He couldn't provide a reason why, just DON'T.

When I use my block heater (hasn't been cold enough yet) I will run the extension through the steering wheel and then down to the heater, that way I'll be sure to unplug the heater and untie the cord from the wheel in order to get up into the seat.

I'm going to Duck Duck Go this one and see what I can dig up.

Here's what I found:

"Do not run your engine while the engine heater is plugged in.

This will create an air bubble around the element which will then cause the element to burn out prematurely."

This was a copy and paste excerpt from a ZeroStart engine heater manual that was mentioned on a forum post.

So what causes the air bubble? Some form of cavitation or turbulence around the heating element when the coolant is flowing by?

Here's another reply from a DirtyMax forum as it pertains to block heaters:

"Leaving your heater plugged in when you start the truck won't hurt the engine. It could, however, hurt the block heater. The water around the heater is really warm, and when you start your pickup the water pump could push a bunch of ice cold water by it. Kind of like throwing hot water on a cold window."

 

[oosik]

My first tractor and the current tractor both start just fine. Even at -20F. However - I've found a very simple solution. Do I REALLY need to be out there when it's that bloody cold. The tractor starts just fine - there I am sitting on a "frozen" vinyl seat. The tractor will warm up with use - I will get colder as I use the tractor.

I'm retired and "IT" can wait. At least, until the temps get above zero ............

 

[mcfarmall]

I'm retired and "IT" can wait. At least, until the temps get above zero ............

My retired FIL and you would get along great! Unfortunately as I have told him several times, I DON'T have all the time in the world and when I need something done, I need it done NOW because it stands in the way of getting other stuff done! I am a very task driven, make hay when the sun shines, kind of a guy and delays stand in my way. For example, if it's howling and zero degrees outside after a 10" lake effect snow dump, I still need to get out of my driveway and get to work. This means that the driveway MUST be cleared...I can't wait a day or two until it warms up and stops snowing.

Sorry to digress! Back to the original topic!

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

My last tractor JD 4320 started to get a little harder to start in the winter (below 20 degrees down to -15), normally I would cycle glow plugs, it tried to fire but failed, I would cycle plugs a second time and it would fire off. I hadn’t tested the glow plugs but I was tempted to add a block heater.

My current tractor is a Mahindra 5555 and it has a block heater. I was told by previous owner it was very easy to start no matter what outside temp was so he never used the block heater. Tractor has 250 hours.

I think I’ll start to use the block heater after reading this just to lower the wear and tear on the tractor.

Any rule of thumb? Under 40 degrees Fahrenheit plug it in? Under 30? 20? 10? Etc etc.

 

[fried1765]

My first tractor and the current tractor both start just fine. Even at -20F. However - I've found a very simple solution. Do I REALLY need to be out there when it's that bloody cold. The tractor starts just fine - there I am sitting on a "frozen" vinyl seat. The tractor will warm up with use - I will get colder as I use the tractor.

I'm retired and "IT" can wait. At least, until the temps get above zero ............

My dad had a saying, translated from German (?)......"We get too soon old, and too late smart"

 

[uphere]

With winter temps of -30 to -45C normal uphere I couldnt use my tractor without a block heater, anti-gel in the fuel, 5W40 synthetic oil, and synthetic tranny fluid. Magnetic and radhose heaters never quite worked well enough on other tractors I had over the years - except for an old IHC I had for some strange reason?

 

[3930dave]

This is my first diesel and I'm just surprised at how much the block heater actually helps starting, even when it's not extremely cold outside. Hopefully it helps as much when it is 0F or below out there.

Just thought I'd share.

Not sure how old that car you mentioned was....... those of us old enough to have driven carbed gasoline vehicles remember well how much block-heaters mattered. Out on the Prairies, they'd have a block heater in both sides of a carb'd gas V8. Modern gas FI is generally so good, many Winter drivers never bother with block heaters.

Modern diesels are generally pretty good at low temp, providing that batteries/wiring/relays are all in top shape. BUT, as you found out, they all like supplemental heat; some more than others.

Last post I saw mentioned 5w40....... conventional oil esp. near/past it's OCI will thicken noticeably with neg. temps. Part of what the supplemental heat helps with is Cranking Speed - matters more on diesels than gas motors....

I think in many cases, modern diesel block and heater design is very good, as you found out.

If you want to hear really painful starts.... plenty of unassisted " -xy F Diesel cold start" vids on youtube. Fingernails on a blackboard to me..... but that expression may not even mean anything today .

Rgds, D.

 

[Oaktree]

My first tractor and the current tractor both start just fine. Even at -20F. However - I've found a very simple solution. Do I REALLY need to be out there when it's that bloody cold. The tractor starts just fine - there I am sitting on a "frozen" vinyl seat. The tractor will warm up with use - I will get colder as I use the tractor.

I'm retired and "IT" can wait. At least, until the temps get above zero ............

I hear ya. About the only thing I use my tractor for in the winter is snow removal, and while temperatures well below zero are not uncommon here, they're rarely accompanied by snowfall. As you say, anything else probably can wait.

My experience with pad heaters or magnetic heaters, is that they are not worth the time it takes to attach them.

Curiously, what's the issue with them? I'd never heard of a pad heater before this thread, but you'd think that while they may not be as efficient as a block heater, the heat would still migrate somewhat thru the pan and block.
I did pick up a magnetic heater a few years ago, haven't used it...never occurred to me that the pan would be aluminum... :ashamed:

 

[rcio7684]

I've had the same experience as hube2 with my Massey GC1723 and the block heater. We live in the same region with similar temperatures and a couple of days ago I went to start it when the temp was in the mid 30's without using the block heater. It took me 3 tries before it started and I was surprised. When I've used the block heater at the same temperature range, it starts up immediately. I've only had the tractor for a month and a half, so maybe it's something specific to the Massey GC series?

 

[s219]

On my L3200, I hold the glow plugs and count to "5-one-thousand" during mild weather, "10" during cold weather, and "12-15" if it's super cold (coldest I ever remember here is -10F). Always works for me. If I know in advance I will need to start the tractor in super cold weather, I have a little electric space heater (oil in tubing) that I can put under the tractor engine to take the edge off.

 

[ruffdog]

Don't run the engine while the block heater is plugged in? I heard this argument WAY back in the 70's when I was wrenching on medium duty trucks. Most of the trucks had a in-hose heater that also had a electric pump that circulated the warmed coolant throughout the system. The old timers said NOT to run the engine with those type heaters plugged in. They also said the freeze plug type heaters were OK to run the engine when plugged in. I had a freeze plug type in my TC33D and most times would run the engine while plugged in as it heated up. I never had a problem for the 19 years I owned her. Some of the new engines have a dry pocket type heater so the heater only touches metal, not coolant.

 

[fried1765]

I hear ya. About the only thing I use my tractor for in the winter is snow removal, and while temperatures well below zero are not uncommon here, they're rarely accompanied by snowfall. As you say, anything else probably can wait.



Curiously, what's the issue with them? I'd never heard of a pad heater before this thread, but you'd think that while they may not be as efficient as a block heater, the heat would still migrate somewhat thru the pan and block.
I did pick up a magnetic heater a few years ago, haven't used it...never occurred to me that the pan would be aluminum... :ashamed:

I have tried both pad and magnetic heaters, and found them not worthwhile.
Perhaps they would work better in continuous use, on a tractor stored inside a cold building,.... but why bother?

 

[oosik]

YA know - if I had to do it all again and was going to be living in a really cold place. I'd HAVE to have a heated building for the tractor and road vehicle. I've lived in an area that got really BRUTALLY cold. And it sure wasn't Anchorage.

The only place I have ever been that could get colder than Glennallen, Ak - - Fairbanks, AK. Nome, AK gets the wind but not the bitter cold of interior Alaska. We should all thank our lucky stars that we don't have winter conditions like Doofy experiences every winter. About four or five months into the Glennallen winter and you have long forgotten how wonderful last summer was. I found that simply living in Glennallen was a job in and of itself.

 

[RalphVa]

I don't remember for sure, but that's probably what I'm doing wrong, thanks.

Only plug it in about 20 or 30 minutes before you need to start it.

 

[CobyRupert]

During my delivery walk-around on my new Kubota M5660SUHD tractor, my salesman said to never run the engine with the block heater plugged in. He couldn't provide a reason why, just DON'T.

When I use my block heater (hasn't been cold enough yet) I will run the extension through the steering wheel and then down to the heater, that way I'll be sure to unplug the heater and untie the cord from the wheel in order to get up into the seat.

I'm going to Duck Duck Go this one and see what I can dig up.

Here's what I found:

"Do not run your engine while the engine heater is plugged in.

This will create an air bubble around the element which will then cause the element to burn out prematurely."

This was a copy and paste excerpt from a ZeroStart engine heater manual that was mentioned on a forum post.

So what causes the air bubble? Some form of cavitation or turbulence around the heating element when the coolant is flowing by?

Here's another reply from a DirtyMax forum as it pertains to block heaters:

"Leaving your heater plugged in when you start the truck won't hurt the engine. It could, however, hurt the block heater. The water around the heater is really warm, and when you start your pickup the water pump could push a bunch of ice cold water by it. Kind of like throwing hot water on a cold window."

(IMHO) None of these make sense (to me).
Where would an air bubble come from?
The thermal shock (rush of ice cold coolant) explanation could makes the most sense, but if it destroys the block heater, then how long after unplugging it should you wait for heater and surrounding coolant to cool? 2 seconds, 10 seconds, 1 min.?

Maybe there is a good reason not to run heater with engine running...

 

[hube2]

Having trouble to start a diesel at those temps, indicates a problem.
Using the glow plugs for 5 seconds only seems short for me. They don't heat much during that time.
What kind of engine do you have? Kubotas and Yanmar are known for good cold starters.
I wouldn't even bother to think about a heating option at those temps.

My idea of hard starting and someone else's may be completely different.

I didn't really say that it is "hard" to start at those temps, I was comparing the amount/length of of cranking to get it started as well as how smooth the engine felt like it was running after it started. Harder/Easier being relative terms. After running the block heater the engine starts faster and runs smoother sooner than when not running the block heater.

 

[rcio7684]

I agree hube2, it runs better, sooner, when using the block heater.

 

[hube2]

My first tractor and the current tractor both start just fine. Even at -20F. However - I've found a very simple solution. Do I REALLY need to be out there when it's that bloody cold. The tractor starts just fine - there I am sitting on a "frozen" vinyl seat. The tractor will warm up with use - I will get colder as I use the tractor.

I'm retired and "IT" can wait. At least, until the temps get above zero ............

I can agree with you on this. Unfortunately I don't always have the luxury at this point in my life to let it wait. But when I can, I do.

 

[hube2]

.

Any rule of thumb? Under 40 degrees Fahrenheit plug it in? Under 30? 20? 10? Etc etc.

This is my rule of thumb as of now, if I need to put on extra clothing to keep myself warm then I'll be turning on the block heater before I go out. How long I leave it running will vary.