Battery Longevity

[WranglerX]

I have never for the life of me understood why vehicle/equipment electrical lsystems with 35 amp and up alternators don't boil batteries. Put a five amp charger on a battery and it will be boiling eventually. You can't tell me that charging systems are that sophisticated, especially older ones.

You would think that if you drained your battery and got it started with a 100 amp plus alternator, it would destroy the battery, but it doesn't.

Its simple.... IF charge "voltage" is to high it cooks battery, IF charge voltage is correct for battery, it last forever (well almost) ... Amperage has very little to do with it....

Dale

 

[Industrial Toys]

I still don't think that I'm making my point. Put a good battery on a bench for a few days with a 10 amp (dumb not multi stage) batttery charger and there is a good possibility is will be all wet around the cells a day or two later. I don't recall ever seeing an installed battery do that.

Not only that, I have seen the V-Meter on my D-Max read some crazy high voltages without ill effects to the batteries.

 

[deserteagle71]

I have found with expensive or cheap batteries to keep a trickle charger on them especially if there is down time between uses BUT do not leave it on all the time. Place the trickle charger on a timer so that it is only on for 30 min. or so once or twice a day. Life on batteries in equipment that is dormant for weeks or months at a time has doubled in some cases. Since retirement even the car and trucks do not see regular use so they also have trickle chargers to compensate for the vampire draw of the security and computer systems that are on all of them now days.

I gave up on trickle chargers several years ago after I discovered battery maintainers. I now have one for every single vehicle - tractors, trucks, motorcycle, quad - I own. They come with a quick connect and if I'm not using that vehicle I plug it in and not have to worry about it. The maintainers have essentially doubled the life of my batteries.

 

[Popgadget]

A battery’s internal resistance changes with its state of charge. At a low SOC, the resistance is lower, allowing the battery to accept a greater current ant the same voltage. As the battery approaches a full SOC, the resistance goes up to where it accepts no current. This of course assumes that the charging source is at a well regulated constant “float” voltage.
This is how the charging system in a vehicle works. Typically a 12V battery floats at 13.8 volts.
Any power source that can accurately maintain that voltage will not overcharge a battery regardless of how much current it is capable of delivering.

Battery minders work completely differently, pulsing the battery with a higher voltage, and monitoring the battery between the pulses and timing the the pulses depending on the battery’s SOC.

 

[fried1765]

I gave up on trickle chargers several years ago after I discovered battery maintainers. I now have one for every single vehicle - tractors, trucks, motorcycle, quad - I own. They come with a quick connect and if I'm not using that vehicle I plug it in and not have to worry about it. The maintainers have essentially doubled the life of my batteries.

I think some of us here are using the terms "trickle chargers", and "battery maintainers" synonymously.

 

[Industrial Toys]

How many stages does the charger have?

 

[Grumpycat]

I bought my Kioti RX7320PC in 2015 and have 216 hours on it. It's been stored in my barn and in the winters I often have a trickle charger on it. Occasionally, regardless of the season, the battery isn't strong enough to start the tractor, like yesterday. I just have to put my 30A - 60A charger on for several minutes and "she" starts right up.

Could the battery be old enough to replace?

Could something in the electrical system be draining the battery charge?

How often do you top off with distilled water?

 

[JethroB]

A battery’s internal resistance changes with its state of charge. At a low SOC, the resistance is lower, allowing the battery to accept a greater current ant the same voltage. As the battery approaches a full SOC, the resistance goes up to where it accepts no current. This of course assumes that the charging source is at a well regulated constant “float” voltage.
This is how the charging system in a vehicle works. Typically a 12V battery floats at 13.8 volts.
Any power source that can accurately maintain that voltage will not overcharge a battery regardless of how much current it is capable of delivering.

Battery minders work completely differently, pulsing the battery with a higher voltage, and monitoring the battery between the pulses and timing the the pulses depending on the battery’s SOC.

Interesting. How do the large roll cart style fast chargers work? The type you see (or used to see) at service stations and auto shops?

 

[ultrarunner]

Adjusting the third brush on the generator adjusts charging amps...

Lots of night driving with lights increase amps to compensate... no night driving but regular driving decrease... no tools required on a Model A Ford.

Amazed at just how engineering from a 100 years simply worked as evidenced by the number of these cars still around.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Friend had a small electric/hydraulic hoist in his small engine shop running off of a battery. Charged it now and then. He was charging it with one of those wheeled chargers (not sure if on crank or high) as he was doing some lathe work for me. When the battery EXPLODED! Very little left of it, and I hurried home to put all my clothes in the washer.

 

[John0829]

I think some of us here are using the terms "trickle chargers", and "battery maintainers" synonymously.

You would be correct in my case.

 

[Popgadget]

Interesting. How do the large roll cart style fast chargers work? The type you see (or used to see) at service stations and auto shops?

They’re generally just a transformer with multiple taps that are selected to select the voltage output. That AC is crudely rectified with no voltage regulation. The higher the voltage tap used, the greater the charge rate. Ohm’s law at work. Charge current is equal to voltage divided by the internal resistance of the battery.
At a constant voltage, the charge rate would decrease as the internal resistance increases as the Battery gains charge.

 

[WranglerX]

Friend had a small electric/hydraulic hoist in his small engine shop running off of a battery. Charged it now and then. He was charging it with one of those wheeled chargers (not sure if on crank or high) as he was doing some lathe work for me. When the battery EXPLODED! Very little left of it, and I hurried home to put all my clothes in the washer.

Yeah .. One of my rather dumb friends (when we were in high school auto shop 60 years ago), put a 12 volt charger on a 6 volt battery and blew the side right out of the battery, was going to quick charge it...... Most people who get in trouble blowing up batteries and such do not know what they are doing.... I worked around commercial/industrial storage batteries for 38 years as back up power system in telehonone offices, one thing you learn to under stand is how to charge a battery property.... We called then 48Volt systems but the were held specifically at 52.08 volts, and systems last 15 to 20 years....WITH OUT FAILURES....

My really old transformer based 6/12 volt charger goes to almost 17 VDC as battery reaches charge, about 2 volts higher then good......... It should never go over 15 volts at max..... Even My AGM battery states do not exceeded 15 VDC....

Dale

 

[JethroB]

They’re generally just a transformer with multiple taps that are selected to select the voltage output. That AC is crudely rectified with no voltage regulation. The higher the voltage tap used, the greater the charge rate. Ohm’s law at work. Charge current is equal to voltage divided by the internal resistance of the battery.
At a constant voltage, the charge rate would decrease as the internal resistance increases as the Battery gains charge.

So, a higher voltage is being pumped into a 12 volt battery? Does this not damage the battery in some way?

 

[ultrarunner]

I have an old 1960's charger that brings back batteries modern chargers won't... and yes it sometimes gets hot so I charge outside with plenty of ventilation.

 

[JethroB]

So, a higher voltage is being pumped into a 12 volt battery? Does this not damage the battery in some way?

DL, I believe you answered my second question. In my young days I jumped off a 6 volt with a 12 volt a few times but knew better. I think the 6 would get a bit warm.

 

[jaxs]

DL, I believe you answered my second question. In my young days I jumped off a 6 volt with a 12 volt a few times but knew better. I think the 6 would get a bit warm.

I never did anything when I was young that I knew better than doing. :liar:

 

[OrangeAgain]

I think some of us here are using the terms "trickle chargers", and "battery maintainers" synonymously.

Correct in my case too. I have the Deltran Battery Tender.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have an old 1960's charger that brings back batteries modern chargers won't... and yes it sometimes gets hot so I charge outside with plenty of ventilation.

Explained to me it is the off gassing of Hydrogen that is explosive... no accumulation of Hydrogen no chance for explosion.

As the water level drops from over charging the area that previously had water/electrolyte can now accumulate Hydrogen.

The Battery rebuilder told me to always check and top off the cells with distilled water and remove the caps when fast charging... of course this was when batteries had easily removable caps.

 

[coobie]

I have a nearby Kioti dealer, John Deere dealer, Kubota dealer and O'Reilly Auto Parts. Do any of those have better batteries (reliability & warranty) than the others?

John Deere strong box batteries are great but pricey..