NX4510 CEL and limp mode

[justman777]

I know the regens are going to vary for everyone, but I've yet to do a manual regen on my tractor after 270 hours. I live in South Texas where the temps are little higher most of the year, so I'm sure that plays into it. I also tend to run above 1500 RPM most of the time, just due to the nature of the work I'm doing. My auto regen light does come on every so often, but it's so infrequent that I can only recall seeing it three times in the last year and a half.

I know it's cooler up that way, but what RPM are you running at?

 

[rademamj1]

I have kept records on my regens, in a very small notebook I keep in the tractor. Also make short notes on my observations during regens. I have 445 hours on the tractor, with 16 total regens observed, exactly 14 were automatic regens and with 2 manual regens. I run an average of 1900rpm, except when using the PTO.

Most regens took about 15 minutes with a brief show of white smoke. Also had one very wierd blazing hot regen when i accidentally put gas into my diesel. And that regen was showing large clouds of yellow and white smoke, with incredible amount of black ash blowing out my muffler. It scared the heck out me.. Lasted only 18 seconds, and the regen was completed as the shortest i ever observed. I cleaned something out, because I went 53 hours to next regen. Maybe gas can help with regens ?

 

[Kioti Dave]

I know the regens are going to vary for everyone, but I've yet to do a manual regen on my tractor after 270 hours. I live in South Texas where the temps are little higher most of the year, so I'm sure that plays into it. I also tend to run above 1500 RPM most of the time, just due to the nature of the work I'm doing. My auto regen light does come on every so often, but it's so infrequent that I can only recall seeing it three times in the last year and a half.

I know it's cooler up that way, but what RPM are you running at?

Most of my work done at 2000 rpms or higher. Before this issue only had 2 manual regens in 350 hours. Most regens done were automatic and had no impact. Manual regens are a pain.

 

[Kioti Dave]

I have kept records on my regens, in a very small notebook I keep in the tractor. Also make short notes on my observations during regens. I have 445 hours on the tractor, with 16 total regens observed, exactly 14 were automatic regens and with 2 manual regens. I run an average of 1900rpm, except when using the PTO.

Most regens took about 15 minutes with a brief show of white smoke. Also had one very wierd blazing hot regen when i accidentally put gas into my diesel. And that regen was showing large clouds of yellow and white smoke, with incredible amount of black ash blowing out my muffler. It scared the heck out me.. Lasted only 18 seconds, and the regen was completed as the shortest i ever observed. I cleaned something out, because I went 53 hours to next regen. Maybe gas can help with regens ?

Wow. How much gas got into system? Sounds like my regen cycle very similar to yours prior to bad injector.

 

[rademamj1]

For 10 minutes on was running the tractor on a 10% diesel 90% gas mixture. I filled up accidently with gas in the field, tried to move the tractor 500' to the tool storage area for mechanical work. And the wierd flaming hot 18second regen occured during that short trip. I suspect the computer sensors were affected by the fuel type (gas) and caused an immediate and extremely hot regen.

I posted a thread when it happened, asking if I can expect any long term damage to the engine. Most responses said no damage was to be expected to the engine from such short term use of gas. They were correct. Anyway, I don't fully understand how the gas fuel affected the onboard computer, but it had a brief and positive affect on the DPF. I should have pulled the DPF and did a visual at that time, but I did not.

My Kioti dealer was clueless, and so i consulted with a Kubota mechanic here in town, and he laughed it off, and said it happens all the time to construction site skid steers and no damage ever results to the Tier4 emissions system's. But I still wonder if a short stream of gas added to the fuel line can help with cleaning injectors and unplugging the DOC + DPF cannister ?

 

[Kioti Dave]

For 10 minutes on was running the tractor on a 10% diesel 90% gas mixture. I filled up accidently with gas in the field, tried to move the tractor 500' to the tool storage area for mechanical work. And the wierd flaming hot 18second regen occured during that short trip. I suspect the computer sensors were affected by the fuel type (gas) and caused an immediate and extremely hot regen.

I posted a thread when it happened, asking if I can expect any long term damage to the engine. Most responses said no damage was to be expected to the engine from such short term use of gas. They were correct.

That must have been pretty scary!!

 

[finn1]

I assume the dealer ran an injector contribution test using his service tool.

The question is really, why didn’t he do that on his first trip?

Also interesting how the naysayers jump on the “I hate emission control bandwagon immediately.

The emission controls quite possibly save your engine from a power cylinder meltdown by flagging that something was wrong.

 

[justman777]

I assume the dealer ran an injector contribution test using his service tool.

The question is really, why didn’t he do that on his first trip?

Also interesting how the naysayers jump on the “I hate emission control bandwagon immediately.

The emission controls quite possibly save your engine from a power cylinder meltdown by flagging that something was wrong.

I don't think anyone would have any issues with the emissions controls if they worked reliably like they were supposed too, and dealers were trained on how to properly diagnose and resolve problems.

 

[finn1]

I certainly agree, but this is a typical case where something failed, but the knee jerk reaction is to blame the emission contyels.

Your car has had emission controls since 1970.

If someone’s tractor tire goes flat, a certain cadre here blames the emission controls.

They really aren’t that scary, and, like on your car, a well developed electronics diagnostics system can actually make troubleshooting easier for a trained technician.

I don't think anyone would have any issues with the emissions controls if they worked reliably like they were supposed too, and dealers were trained on how to properly diagnose and resolve problems.

 

[todd92]

The problem with this is it totally falls apart without a well trained technician. In my case, a clogged DPF led to a forced regen at dealer #1 and lecture about using 'bad' fuel. When it clogged again after 10 hours and wouldn't regen, I took it to dealer #2, who eventually diagnosed a bad turbo oil seal, which was leaking enough oil to clog the DPF but not enough to register on the dip stick.

So your argument holds no water. The electronic diagnostic system only showed a plugged DPF. It took a sensible mechanic to find and fix the cause. If the DPF was not there, I'm sure the seal could have continued to leak oil for a very long time, with no negative effects. Instead, it plugged the DPF, put the tractor in limp mode and out of service for almost 2 months and counting.

 

[finn1]

The problem with this is it totally falls apart without a well trained technician. In my case, a clogged DPF led to a forced regen at dealer #1 and lecture about using 'bad' fuel. When it clogged again after 10 hours and wouldn't regen, I took it to dealer #2, who eventually diagnosed a bad turbo oil seal, which was leaking enough oil to clog the DPF but not enough to register on the dip stick.

So your argument holds no water. The electronic diagnostic system only showed a plugged DPF. It took a sensible mechanic to find and fix the cause. If the DPF was not there, I'm sure the seal could have continued to leak oil for a very long time, with no negative effects. Instead, it plugged the DPF, put the tractor in limp mode and out of service for almost 2 months and counting.

Turbo seals that leak don’t automatically heal by running longer. I’m sure you’re simply guessing when you say it would have run for a long time while leaking.

In the case of this thread, he had a bad common rail injector. Ever seen what a power cylinder looks like after running with a bad common rail injector. Clue: it isn’t pretty and frequently requires a new long block assembly.

 

[JimR]

Turbo seals that leak don’t automatically heal by running longer. I’m sure you’re simply guessing when you say it would have run for a long time while leaking.

In the case of this thread, he had a bad common rail injector. Ever seen what a power cylinder looks like after running with a bad common rail injector. Clue: it isn’t pretty and frequently requires a new long block assembly.

Why would a bad fuel injector that is spewing too much fuel cause a blown long block?

 

[Kioti Dave]

Update..... since new injector installed, have had 3 auto regens at 5, 12 and 11 hours. Still think there is an issue as I was going 30 to 40 hours between regens. Will see how it progresses.

 

[JimR]

Update..... since new injector installed, have had 3 auto regens at 5, 12 and 11 hours. Still think there is an issue as I was going 30 to 40 hours between regens. Will see how it progresses.

Did they do a run up and shut down test on your injectors? It is possible that you DPF is so dirty that it can't burn off. Mine had to be removed and cleaned. It was plugged up really bad. I got 57 hours before my last regeneration.

 

[Kioti Dave]

Did they do a run up and shut down test on your injectors? It is possible that you DPF is so dirty that it can't burn off. Mine had to be removed and cleaned. It was plugged up really bad. I got 57 hours before my last regeneration.

Jim, I was thinking the same thing. How was yours cleaned out? Yes they did the test on the injectors. Only one was out of tolerance.

 

[JimR]

Jim, I was thinking the same thing. How was yours cleaned out? Yes they did the test on the injectors. Only one was out of tolerance.

All I know is that they had b.vto remove it, take it apart and cleaned it out somehow.

 

[rademamj1]

There are a number of ways to manually Regen or clean a DPF. The best and most common way, is to simply bring it to a diesel shop with a DPF thermal baking unit.

The DPF which is mainly ceramic, will be baked for 18 to 24 hours at high temperatures, to convert the diesel particulates (DP) to a fine ash. Then it will undergo a 1 hour high-pressure power wash to clean the ash out. Typical cost runs $250 - $350 depending on where in the country you are located. The West coast shows the higher costs

You can reattach the DPF back on the tractor, and reconnect all wires and sensors. This process can take a fully plugged DPF rated at 200% plugging down to about 5% or less. If you give the DPF to a Kioti dealer who is knowledgeable about the DPF, he will most likely follow the above procedures.

Look for diesel engine shops along major interstates, and most big cities where the big haul truckers commonly bring their DPF units for cleaning. The cleaning procedure is no different for a Kioti tractor DPF or say a Peterbilt DPF unit.

I am not advocating any specific DPF cleaning shop, but i just choose this one, as an example of what these businesses can do.

Western DPF Services | Home | Oklahoma City DPF Cleaning

 

[JimR]

There are a number of ways to manually clean a DPF. The best and most common way, is to simply bring it to a diesel shop with a DPF thermal baking unit.

The DPF which is mainly ceramic, will be baked for 18 to 24 hours at high temperatures, to convert the diesel particulates (DP) to a fine ash. Then it will undergo a 1 hour high-pressure power wash to clean the ash out. Typical cost runs $250 - $350 depending on where in the country you are located. The West coast shows the higher costs

You can reattach the DPF back on the tractor, and reconnect all wires and sensors. This process takes can take a fully plugged DPF rated at 200% plugging down to a 5% or less. If you given it to a Kioti dealer who is knowledgeable about the DPF, he will most likely follow the above procedures.

Look for diesel engine shops along major interstates, where the big haul truckers commonly bring their DPF units for cleaning. The cleaning procedure is no different for a Kioti tractor DPF or say a Peterbilt DPF unit.

I am not advocating any specific DPF cleaning shop, but i just choose this one, as an example of what these businesses can do.

Western DPF Services | Home | Oklahoma City DPF Cleaning

That is pretty much what my readings were everytime it messed up 200%. After it was fixed it was low single digits.

 

[Kioti Dave]

Update..... since new injector installed, have had 3 auto regens at 5, 12 and 11 hours. Still think there is an issue as I was going 30 to 40 hours between regens. Will see how it progresses.

Well, here we are 70 hours later, and 7 regens. Dealer picked up tractor and replaced turbo on warranty as it was leaking engine oil into intake. So the problem was 1 bad injector and a leaking turbo. Hopefully tractor will go back to a normal regen cycle of at least 30 or more hours.

 

[DieselBound]

Dave, by "leaking" what do you mean?