John Deere 4300 3 Point Malfunction

[sloch24]

My 3 point just recently started screwing up (more than usual).

Since I've owned the tractor (2016) when I raise it all the way up the motor would labor, so I would have to move the lever down a bit to get it to stop.

The other day, the 3 point started dropping all by itself. It was very annoying dragging my box scraper while trying to move stone with the bucket.

Upon further inspection, I noticed that when I move the rock shaft lever, the 3 point doesn't move at all until it hits a point about 3/4" back. At that time, it acts as a "all the way up" lever. The 3 point then lifts all the way up and the engine labors until I move it down slightly.

At this time, moving the lever down slightly seems to hold the level steady until it doesn't. I can't trust it to stay up, and while I'm running the tractor the 3 point gradually lowers until I'm dragging it.

With the 3 point fully raised, if I move the rock shaft lever down just slightly past the "neutral" position, the implement lowers all the way to the ground.

Basically what I have now is an all raised or all lowered situation.

I pulled the seat and am looking at tearing apart the left side rear fender to take the cover off the valve and check for debris in the valve such as screen material that may have blown past the inline filter (I haven't pulled that line yet, but that will be the first thing I do).

Any thoughts? Am I on the right path? Does it sound like something is caught in the valve, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[beenthere]

when I raise it all the way up the motor would labor, so I would have to move the lever down a bit to get it to stop.

That would be the adjustment to the feedback arm/lever on the left side somewhat under the seat. Tells the internal valve that the arms are at the top, need not go further.
Whether that being out of adjustment caused further internal valve problems, I do not know.

Your thought on that screen being the problem may be the right path. When that was first reported to be a potential problem, I changed out that original screen arrangement so avoided the problem of the screen blowing out and into the valves.

 

[sloch24]

That would be the adjustment to the feedback arm/lever on the left side somewhat under the seat. Tells the internal valve that the arms are at the top, need not go further.
Whether that being out of adjustment caused further internal valve problems, I do not know.

Well, I never intentionally let it labor, but when at higher throttle, it could have and I didn't notice it i suppose.

Is that the adjustment at the rear of the tractor that sets the arm height? I see that linkage on the rock shaft, but I didn't notice anything going to a valve. It looked more like a positive stop. Maybe I need to look closer.

 

[beenthere]

This is the adjustment rod.. key # 8 that shuts off the lift valve.

 

[sloch24]

Wow! That's a great diagram! Can I ask where you got it? Is it part of a service manual?

The only manual I have is the operators manual and it doesn't show any of this. I'd love to get my hands on something a little more in depth.

Now I have a few things that I can check out. I assumed that maybe one of those "bolts" were check valves, or relief valves, but I had no way of knowing until now.

Thanks!

 

[beenthere]

That pic came from the service tech manual.. should also show in the jdparts but I couldn't put my finger on it there.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/navigation/equipment/75863

 

[Wagtail]

This is the adjustment rod.. key # 8 that shuts off the lift valve.

Good onya beenthere.

I read threads like this (all colours too) to learn how my tractor works and to spot/analyse potential problems/faults. I didn't know about the adjustment rod... my 3PH simply comes up and stops by 'magic'. :wizard: Now I know better.

 

[waycoolmarine]

look at the parts diagram if i were a betting man and i am roll pin #40 is broken and linkages is -tight- from age use penatrating oil and loosen up the linkage , its not in the adjustment linkage you do not have to remove the fender - just the seat and surrounding metal and plastic

 

[super55]

Almost 100% the one of the nuts backed off on the threaded rod causing too much play in the linkage. My 4400 used to do the same exact thing and it was a loosened nut.

 

[sloch24]

Well, I spent last evening tearing down everything and here's what I found:

@waycoolmarine - 100% correct. That roll pin was broken and the shaft is seized. I hit it with PB Blaster and then removed the linkage in order to remove the broken roll pin.

@super55 - Also correct, but in this case, there is a deeper problem.

So, here's what I did in order:

1) Removed the input hydraulic line in order to inspect the inline filter. It was blown through, but very little if any pieces were missing. I removed the filter basket from the fitting and re-installed. (Should I do something about this after I get it running, or just run it without the filter?

2) I found the adjustment linkage for the 3 point that stops it from going up any further. As previously stated, I removed it, removed the broken roll pin, and saturated the shaft in penetrating oil in an attempt to free the shaft. No dice as of yet.

3) I removed the wheel & fender, and took the emergency brake off of the bracket in order to get to the hydraulic valve. I removed the cover, drained the residual oil out of it, then removed the valve and removed just about everything that could be removed (one at a time) to check for debris that might be causing me a problem.

At this point I'm nearly certain that my problem lies in this valve, but I see nothing wrong with it. Can these be rebuilt? Is there anything I can do with it?

It's acting as an on/off valve instead of a variable position valve. It's all or nothing, and I don't see how any other component could be causing this.

So, right now, the tractor is torn apart and the valve is removed and reassembled on the bench.

Suggestions? Where to go next? Is this valve still available if it can't be repaired? Cost?

I appreciate everyone's help so far. I'd like to get this figured out so I can use my tractor again!!!

The valve does have a name and numbers on it:

418B
Danfoss Fluid Power
Easley, SC (USA)
AM119160

*I haven't looked up the valve at JD-Parts yet to get a number. I'll be doing that here shortly.

 

[sloch24]

Okay, I found the valve on JD-Parts. Pricey little bugger! ~$550

 

[super55]

If you are talking about the little screen that goes from the fitting into the top of the rock shaft housing I believe JD did a TSB on that and recommended leaving it out and installing the upgrade kit which has the typical canister filter above the top link on the 3 point. They ended up finding out the screen was blowing out and causing debris to get caught in the rock shaft control valve. Your tractor might already have it. Also on the rockshaft control valve you might be able to get away with cleaning it out as best you can and replacing all the o-rings. Blow by the o-rings can be a culprit and is pretty easy to diagnose if there is hydraulic fluid when you removed the cover.

On my 4400 I had the same issues you are talking about minus the broken roll pin. I replaced with New/old stock rock shaft control valve and pressure relief valve and neither of them fixed it. What ended up fixing it was me fine tuning the linkage control rod and the flow control valve under the seat. But I had the same exact issues. Lift up all the way and motor would lug from the pump constantly running until I found the sweet spot in the linkage where it would drift down and hold. The rock shaft control valve is pretty easy to get at so it wouldn't hurt to put new o-rings in and give it a shot before you put out a bunch of green for green parts.

 

[sloch24]

If you are talking about the little screen that goes from the fitting into the top of the rock shaft housing I believe JD did a TSB on that and recommended leaving it out and installing the upgrade kit which has the typical canister filter above the top link on the 3 point. They ended up finding out the screen was blowing out and causing debris to get caught in the rock shaft control valve. Your tractor might already have it. Also on the rockshaft control valve you might be able to get away with cleaning it out as best you can and replacing all the o-rings. Blow by the o-rings can be a culprit and is pretty easy to diagnose if there is hydraulic fluid when you removed the cover.

On my 4400 I had the same issues you are talking about minus the broken roll pin. I replaced with New/old stock rock shaft control valve and pressure relief valve and neither of them fixed it. What ended up fixing it was me fine tuning the linkage control rod and the flow control valve under the seat. But I had the same exact issues. Lift up all the way and motor would lug from the pump constantly running until I found the sweet spot in the linkage where it would drift down and hold. The rock shaft control valve is pretty easy to get at so it wouldn't hurt to put new o-rings in and give it a shot before you put out a bunch of green for green parts.

Did your rockshaft lever act as an all or nothing like mine?

Is this correct that there should not be any oil in the cover? I had oil in the cover when I removed it. quite a bit actually. I see what looks like a drain back to the tank, so I assumed it was normal to have oil in there.

As for the filter, it looks like (from what I've been able to search) you need to replace the hydraulic line and the filter is moved up to the straight section. Mine definitely doesn't have that. I may take the line to the local hydraulic shop and see if they can put an inline filter in it. I think I read somewhere that the conversion kit was no longer available, and I'm sure I can probably have it done cheaper locally.

Thanks!

 

[super55]

Did your rockshaft lever act as an all or nothing like mine?

Is this correct that there should not be any oil in the cover? I had oil in the cover when I removed it. quite a bit actually. I see what looks like a drain back to the tank, so I assumed it was normal to have oil in there.

As for the filter, it looks like (from what I've been able to search) you need to replace the hydraulic line and the filter is moved up to the straight section. Mine definitely doesn't have that. I may take the line to the local hydraulic shop and see if they can put an inline filter in it. I think I read somewhere that the conversion kit was no longer available, and I'm sure I can probably have it done cheaper locally.

Thanks!

Mine was doing all or nothing as well. I had to adjust the jam nuts on item 38. One had backed out. What mine was causing was there was so much slop between the jam nuts that that it would raise to the top but not stay at top unless completely bottomed out and you could hear the pump was going into relief. Draft control didn't work. The nut towards the back backed off a bit and what is happening is the rod is not closing the control valve all the way now which is causing drift. As for the control valve it I believe it is a closed system. I know when I pulled my cover off it didn't have any fluid in it. For the inline filter. You might be right it would be cheaper to just have a hydraulic shop do it. All it is is taking that hard line where the screen was located and putting a filter instead of a screen in it. The problem was that little screen couldn't handle any flow restriction when debris got in and would essentially blow out like yours did.

Here's the link for the inline filter. Looks like JD still sells the parts individually just no longer as a kit. https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/75863/referrer/navigation/pgId/240211437

I don't know if you have changed the fluid but might want to consider t0 and get a new filter and clean out the sump screen at that bottom of the tank.

 

[sloch24]

I changed the oil and filter (and cleaned the main screen) when I got the tractor in 2016. I probably only put about 100 hours on it since then.

I guess I'll get that shaft freed up, replace those 3 o-rings and put it back together to see if things operate different.

What did you use to seal the cover? Mine didn't have a gasket, but looked like it had some kind of sealant on it.

I don't want to throw money at this that won't do anything. Hopefully I didn't mess anything up when I disassembled the valve. I guess we'll find out!

 

[super55]

I used brushed on some permatex gasket maker. Any auto parts store should sell a small can of it. I like it a lot better than the typical RTV gasket stuff. Keep us posted on your results.

 

[sloch24]

I'll have to pick up a can of that permatex. Thanks.

I didn't have time to work on the tractor last night. I did call around looking for o-rings, and nobody has them around me. It looks like i'll have to order them.

 

[beenthere]

A good video to help make the decision on which Permatex options and decisions.. multiple products. quick cure, anaerobic, etc.

Gasket Maker Overview - Permatex Tech Tip Series - YouTube

 

[rekees4300]

A good video to help make the decision on which Permatex options and decisions.. multiple products. quick cure, anaerobic, etc.

Gasket Maker Overview - Permatex Tech Tip Series - YouTube

I've owned a JD4300 for 18 years but never had a problem with the 3PT. Nevertheless thanks for the post about Permatex. I was unaware a gasket-in-a-bottle product exists. :thumbsup:

 

[beenthere]

Always nice to keep from having to use the gasket-in-a-bottle if possible. I got up close with it last month when I re-built a 5 speed tranny for my friend who couldn't afford to replace his in a Deere walk-behind mower. Completely new experience for me, as a bearing went out and a replacement transaxle new was $486.

After cleaning, new bearing, have to assemble all the little parts and fill it with grease, then apply the liquid gasket and slap the two halves back together, torque the bolts and cross your fingers that all is in the correct place and the correct order. Lots of horror stories on line of failed attempts. Thankfully all went well and it works for a very happy friend. Learned about the liquid gasket then. I thought Permatex only came in a can with a swab for painting it on, usually with a paper gasket involved. Times have changed..