To Backhoe or not to Backhoe

[GE7EA]

I bought a CK3510 SE HST last October. I live on approximately 10 acres. Half or so is hilly and I have some drainage issues. I am contemplating purchasing a KL2475 Backhoe. It's a big price tag but if it's as useful as the other implements I own, it'd be worth it. What I'd presently like to accomplish is to dig a retention pond and divert a lot of the runoff into it. The pond dimensions would be about 20' x 20' x 4'-6' deep. The length of what i would need to trench would be in the 200'-300' range. Maybe I'm thinking about it all wrong, but in surveying where the water naturally goes, it seems to be in line but I'd like it to be more contained and limit the amount of erosion we battle. I've read a little bit on backhoes and wonder if it will hold up over time. Too is it worth the investment? I've attached a pic showing how the water tends to go presently. I'd like to divert the lower path to go into the upper path to maintain the path to and from the existing pond for travel. I know that the aerial shot doesn't do much good for this purpose. To try and give some sense of scale, the barn is at the highest elevation of the property and it's 40' x 60' located at the bottom right of pic. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[tookielee]

I don't know about your location, but near me, you can sometimes
get people in the dirt hauling business to dig a pond for you in
exchange for the dirt they remove

 

[EddieWalker]

What does the backhoe attachment cost?

I have a full sized New Holland 555E backhoe and it's too small for most things, but I do what I can to make it work. Having a backhoe is extremely useful for more things then you can imagine. You will find something to use it on the rest of your life, so for that reason, I would always want to have one. Right now I'm using mine to clean up fallen trees after a sever storm that we had here. I've dug three ponds with mine. Two on my land and one on my neighbors. All where a lot bigger then what you want do to. What I've found is that digging is easy, the real work is in what you do with the dirt. Piling it up on the dam works the best, and if that is what your plan is, I think you would be a lot better off renting a dozer to do this.

 

[crashz]

I think you will be unhappy with a backhoe for that project. It could do it, but long swale trenching means moving the machine a lot and it will get tedious with the short reach of the tractor mounted backhoe.

If you want to do this work yourself, I would either rent or purchase a mini excavator. It will still take some time, especially if a learning curve is involved, but you will be productive.

Just a thought, but have you tried talking to your local NRCS (Natural Resources Conservation Services) office about this? They could be a good resource and will help with ideas, planning, permits and regulatory issues. Possibly grants as well, depending on the scope. They are one of the few government agencies I've worked with that seem to help farms.

 

[fried1765]

I bought a CK3510 SE HST last October. I live on approximately 10 acres. Half or so is hilly and I have some drainage issues. I am contemplating purchasing a KL2475 Backhoe. It's a big price tag but if it's as useful as the other implements I own, it'd be worth it. What I'd presently like to accomplish is to dig a retention pond and divert a lot of the runoff into it. The pond dimensions would be about 20' x 20' x 4'-6' deep. The length of what i would need to trench would be in the 200'-300' range. Maybe I'm thinking about it all wrong, but in surveying where the water naturally goes, it seems to be in line but I'd like it to be more contained and limit the amount of erosion we battle. I've read a little bit on backhoes and wonder if it will hold up over time. Too is it worth the investment? I've attached a pic showing how the water tends to go presently. I'd like to divert the lower path to go into the upper path to maintain the path to and from the existing pond for travel. I know that the aerial shot doesn't do much good for this purpose. To try and give some sense of scale, the barn is at the highest elevation of the property and it's 40' x 60' located at the bottom right of pic. Any advice would be much appreciated.

The hoe you are considering might be fine for trenching, but it is way too small for the job you propose.
I would suggest that you hire someone with a large tracked loader to dig just the hole (90 cu. yds., but probably with slope, more like 120+ cu. yds.)
Maybe 4 hours using the much larger machine.

You will love how handy a hoe can be for ALL SORTS of other uses though.
After having the hole dug, you can do the all the trenching you want with your new hoe.

 

[fried1765]

I think you will be unhappy with a backhoe for that project. It could do it, but long swale trenching means moving the machine a lot and it will get tedious with the short reach of the tractor mounted backhoe.

If you want to do this work yourself, I would either rent or purchase a mini excavator. It will still take some time, especially if a learning curve is involved, but you will be productive.

Just a thought, but have you tried talking to your local NRCS (Natural Resources Conservation Services) office about this? They could be a good resource and will help with ideas, planning, permits and regulatory issues. Possibly grants as well, depending on the scope. They are one of the few government agencies I've worked with that seem to help farms.

I would ABSOLUTELY STEER CLEAR of ANY CONTACT with NRCS!
It is MUCH better to ask for forgiveness that to ask for permission!
DON'T open up a NRCS can of worms!
Just DO IT !

 

[3Ts]

I have a tractor mounted (subframe) backhoe and have dug a hole about half the size you are planning, took me 2 days to do it. And the biggest problem is what to do with the dirt? I piled it up on the side of the hole but quickly realized that I'd have to move the pile before I could dig anymore. Backhoes are good at digging trenches, a little more problematic for ponds. As for the swale, you are now talking about just skimming a thin dirt layer to redirect the flow. Backhoes aren't so good at doing this, bulldozers are much better. However, I have a similar problem to what you're trying to do and have to redirect the water with swales. I have really hard packed clay and 2 different blades (one weighs about 900#), neither one can cut into the clay. So you use what you have. I scraped about 3" off the top of a half acre area with the backhoe. Again, had to stop frequently to move the spoils, would have been better and quicker with a dozer, but I don't have one, nor know anyone with one so cost would have been prohibitive to rent.

So, to answer your question, it's not the best tool for what you have planned, but yes it can do the job, but will take longer than a dozer.

Also, as to whether a backhoe is worth the money. That depends. I bought it because I needed to dig several trenches 2' deep and totalling over 1000' over several months so the rental cost would have been more than the purchase. I've already gotten my money's worth out of it and continue to use it for various projects (including planting landscape bushes) because I already have it and it's easier than digging by hand.

P.S. my hoe is on a 50 hp tractor and a stated digging depth of 8'. It requires lots of positioning to dig an area as deep as you're planning. It will require you to reposition frequently. Oh, and by the way, repositioning takes time so be sure to allocate lots and lots of time to the project.

 

[Diggin It]

I got a hoe. I wouldn't think of digging a pond that size. That'll take a dozer.

 

[Diggin It]

I dunno ... 20 x 20 x 6? Maybe it could be done. Question I guess becomes will the ground hold water there? Or will it become a big mud hole?

 

[justman777]

Another vote for a dozer. You could have a dozer in there and done by the time you'd dig 1/10th of your pond with a hoe.

I think you'll find two camps on here....those who swear by their hoe, and those who swear at it. If you can afford it, get it just to have around. They're handy as all get-out. But, for what they're charging for them, I think I'd rent something I could abuse and return and not have to worry about storing it for the once or twice a year I'd use it, or the wear and tear on the tractor.

If you get one, you'll have lots of new friends at church and around the neighborhood! :laughing:

 

[fried1765]

Another vote for a dozer. You could have a dozer in there and done by the time you'd dig 1/10th of your pond with a hoe.

I think you'll find two camps on here....those who swear by their hoe, and those who swear at it. If you can afford it, get it just to have around. They're handy as all get-out. But, for what they're charging for them, I think I'd rent something I could abuse and return and not have to worry about storing it for the once or twice a year I'd use it, or the wear and tear on the tractor.

If you get one, you'll have lots of new friends at church and around the neighborhood! :laughing:

Renting may be a reasonable idea....if the rental yard is just a mile or two away.
In my case, the nearest backhoe rental available is 80+ miles.
That is why I own my L48TLB!
It is ALWAYS available to me, even if I only need it for 15 minutes.

 

[GE7EA]

Wow!! Thanks for all the input. I am certain that I could find several other uses for the backhoe, but am convinced that I can't justify spending the money to handle this particular project. I think I will try to reach out to some neighbors that own a skid steer at least. One neighbor has had an excavating backhoe on his property for nearly a month, so it may be worth talking to him to see what he would charge or the availability to use it. Again, I really appreciate all the feedback. An ounce of advice is well worth not having to live with the frustration of countless hours of working with something that would have a hard time achieving the desired result.

 

[JerryK]

I am a fan of backhoes.... Only problem with them is they are a pathway of obtaining an excavator. Another of those ' if I only had ' life's problems...

 

[fried1765]

I am a fan of backhoes.... Only problem with them is they are a pathway of obtaining an excavator. Another of those ' if I only had ' life's problems...

Excavators are obviously good, but they are a one trick pony!
They can dig/lift.
They cannot move dirt beyond their boom reach.
They are crawlers, and as such, move around VERY slowly.
As has been said many times: A TLB is a Swiss army knife.

 

[GE7EA]

I can see where getting the backhoe could lead to wanting an excavator. The price of the backhoe is close to 8k out the door with tax title and tip. They quoted a 12" bucket, but that seems a bit small to me. I think it would handle the trenching fine, but would take some time. I saw a video where someone mentioned that it goes faster if you have someone drive the tractor while you operate the backhoe (Not at the same time). I would feel much more comfortable if it was a 4-5k investment because I know I would figure out a lot of other uses for it. At this point I haven't contacted my neighbors yet, nor have I gotten any quotes on having it done. If all of that doesn't yield any reasonable results, I may reconsider. I do appreciate the feedback and ideas. There's a lot of value in other's sharing their experiences especially when mistakes can be so costly.

 

[GE7EA]

I did want to mention that I'm fairly confident that the retention pond would hold water. Living in South Carolina the majority of the soil in my area has a high clay content. I've read where people have pinned some pigs in the area of the pond and used them to pack in the dirt / clay. For the sides they said they hang corn up around the edges to get them to do the sides as well, eliminating the need for a liner. That sounds great to me, but wonder if it actually works.

 

[3Ts]

I did want to mention that I'm fairly confident that the retention pond would hold water. Living in South Carolina the majority of the soil in my area has a high clay content. I've read where people have pinned some pigs in the area of the pond and used them to pack in the dirt / clay. For the sides they said they hang corn up around the edges to get them to do the sides as well, eliminating the need for a liner. That sounds great to me, but wonder if it actually works.

I thought it was sheep if you want it packed and hogs if you wanted it tilled up due to their rooting.

 

[countrybumpkin]

You say retention pond, for run run off only, or are you planning on it holding water year around? A 20 foot by 20 foot pond isn’t going to hold much, especially if there is much of a water shed area. As for will the tractor unit do the job, Yes it would but not quickly. A small excavator and dozer would make quick work of that job.

 

[GE7EA]

The primary purpose of the retention pond is aesthetics more than anything else. I would like it to hold water year round. We have a large pond at the bottom of the property where the majority of the water ends up. What my ultimate goal is, is to direct the largest amounts of water to dedicated areas and minimize erosion. If you can look at the picture I posted in my original post, the upper line is where I'd like the lower line to go. That's going to take a lot more dirt moving than a TLB. The area closest to the barn where the line is, I want to trench and put in pipe and continue that down to where the pond will be. The pond will have a spillway into another pipe that lets out to a ditch that leads to the pond at the far left of the pic. The lower line is what I want to divert over to the upper line because where the lower line is, is where we primarily travel to and from the pond. In my mind, it seems like the least invasive way to maintain what we have and not have watershed ruts in multiple places. I may be way off, but it's what I am thinking.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Curious if anyone on say 100 acres finds a track hoe too slow to get around and maybe doesn't use it for every little job on account of that.