3-Point Hitch Burning Clutch Smell

[the old grind]

...Branson uses a electric over hydraulic PTO, so no need for a clutch pedal for that either...

So yours is HST too and not shuttle?

My CUTs have HST and brake pedals on the same side. :ashamed:

The one whose electrics are failing doesn't have electric PTO. It still works. I trust the foot.

btw does "electric PTO" mean no kind of clutch anywhere? Oh.

"Ya learn something every day."

 

[ptsg]

So yours is HST too and not shuttle?

My CUTs have HST and brake pedals on the same side. :ashamed:

The one whose electrics are failing doesn't have electric PTO. It still works. I trust the foot.

btw does "electric PTO" mean no kind of clutch anywhere? Oh.

"Ya learn something every day."

Mine is a shuttle shift with a clutch but the OP said his was a HST, which don't have a clutch nor a clutch pedal.

The PTO clutch on these tractors is a Clutch pack, pretty much like a clutch pack on a automatic transmission.

Once you flip the switch to the On position, it will activate the solenoid on the valve block which applies pressure to the piston of the clutch pack and therefore engaging the clutch. Once the switch is OFF, a spring pushes everything back and actually presses it against a brake disc. This happens all inside the transmission under a oil bath just above the range gears.

Not really a electric PTO clutch as in the lawnmowers but a electric over hydraulic clutch.

 

[ericm979]

In addition to the PTO clutch being wet, the brakes are wet too. So they would not be making the burnt clutch smell. Either we're down to burning insulation, or your DPF has got some soot in it and you're smelling it burning off. My 3725 does make a slight odor at times, usually after I have been doing something that's low load on the engine. To me it's different from burnt clutch smell but it's not that much different (and it's a new smell from the tractor) so I could see thinking it was like burning clutch. Running the tractor hard for a while makes it go away.

BTW we all thought you had a gear model with a clutch because the 5220C in your profile indicates a gear transmission. An HST cab model would be a 5220CH.

 

[Orebonder]

In addition to the PTO clutch being wet, the brakes are wet too. So they would not be making the burnt clutch smell. Either we're down to burning insulation, or your DPF has got some soot in it and you're smelling it burning off. My 3725 does make a slight odor at times, usually after I have been doing something that's low load on the engine. To me it's different from burnt clutch smell but it's not that much different (and it's a new smell from the tractor) so I could see thinking it was like burning clutch. Running the tractor hard for a while makes it go away.

BTW we all thought you had a gear model with a clutch because the 5220C in your profile indicates a gear transmission. An HST cab model would be a 5220CH.

My apologies!!..... Let me start over.

I have a 5220C..it has the 3 ranges on the left of the drivers seat...and 4 different speed options on the right.

A little history:
I first notice the " burnt clutch" slightly last year when I was installing 200 ft of septic lines, using my three point hitch backhoe.....which uses the PTO shaft pump.

A few months later I was pulling a broken wooden fence post out of the ground ( we were hit by a tornado in western Ohio )....I pulled the fence post using the front-end loader...PTO shaft was NOT rotating on this project....and I noticed the " burnt" smell again.

A few days ago I was pulling some very large logs out of the woods...to go to a sawmil ...and noticed the smell again after I was done. I was using only the FRONT BUCKET and mostly REVERSE while pulling these logs.

I hope this helps with any confusion I might have created.

Thanks again

John

 

[ruffdog]

The funky smell of going through regen?

 

[Peter 315]

You sure its not just hyd oil smell from the vent .............

 

[Orebonder]

I have actually "smelled around the "back" area by the vent...and nothing seems to smell there...it actually seems stronger inside the cab.

 

[Orebonder]

And mine is the 12/12 HST...5220C...not the 5220Ch

And it says " dry clutch"

That help any?

Thanks
John

 

[Orebonder]

What is regen?

 

[Orebonder]

The funky smell of going through regen?

What is regen?

 

[LouNY]

OK, now we are back to you have a gear driven transmission with a mechanical shuttle using a dry clutch.
So we are also back to lubricating the clutch shaft and linkage, then adjusting your foot clutch for an inch of free play.
If you have not adjusted a clutch before free play is the amount of clutch pedal movement before it tightens up and starts to depress the clutch fingers.
So after lubricating the clutch linkage and verifying that it is all free and easy moving, with the tractor off and parking brake set,
reach in with your hand and see how far you can move the clutch pedal with your hand.
Trying to push it down the amount it travels easily is your free play. Also try and lift it or pull it back it should not pull back any.
If it does your linkage needs to be cleaned lubed and freed up before any else is checked.

A regen is when a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) has extra fuel injected into the system to burn outside of the engine and in the exhaust to raise the exhaust Temperature high enough to burn off the accumulated carbon build up.

I am not positive but I think your tractor has a DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst) which does not get an occasional fuel added regen but relies on continual exhaust heat to be enough to help it remain clean.

 

[ericm979]

Since it really is a gear transmission model, and the PTO stopped turning while it was loaded and the engine running, it sounds like your clutch is slipping. And pretty badly. Hopefully an adjustment will fix it. If the clutch plates are too worn or glazed you're looking at splitting the tractor and replacing the clutch.

 

[LouNY]

Since it really is a gear transmission model, and the PTO stopped turning while it was loaded and the engine running, it sounds like your clutch is slipping. And pretty badly. Hopefully an adjustment will fix it. If the clutch plates are too worn or glazed you're looking at splitting the tractor and replacing the clutch.

I believe that all of those have an independent pto with the separate wet clutch pack.

 

[Orebonder]

Since it really is a gear transmission model, and the PTO stopped turning while it was loaded and the engine running, it sounds like your clutch is slipping. And pretty badly. Hopefully an adjustment will fix it. If the clutch plates are too worn or glazed you're looking at splitting the tractor and replacing the clutch.

Wow...Do you think there would be clutch damage with only 100 hours on the tractor .....I can tell you that I do not ride the clutch.

With The one time pulling heavy logs, I can see some clutch temp generated...that is probably the hardest I've worked thus tractor

Thanks
John

 

[ericm979]

I believe that all of those have an independent pto with the separate wet clutch pack.

Yea. I thought that the PTO clutch was driven off the main transmission shaft but looking at the power flow diagram in the shop manual, it's driven from an engine speed shaft that goes through the clutch center. So yep I was wrong about that.

 

[ericm979]

Wow...Do you think there would be clutch damage with only 100 hours on the tractor .....I can tell you that I do not ride the clutch.

With The one time pulling heavy logs, I can see some clutch temp generated...that is probably the hardest I've worked thus tractor

Thanks
John

It does not take much slipping to kill a dry clutch. Mis adjustment will do it. And they can go our of adjustment from wear.

But given my post above where I was wrong about the PTO being driven from the transmission, I'm less sure of what the problem is. It seems unlikely that both the engine clutch and PTO clutch would be slipping, but losing drive and losing the PTO drive would indicate something like that. And re-reading your posts now it looks like I mistook "PTO shaft was NOT rotating on this project" for the PTO driving something and then stopped, but that's not what you really said. And you didn't say you lose drive either. Oof. I'm batting zero for N here. Sorry for the wild goose chase.

 

[DK35vince]

It does not take much slipping to kill a dry clutch. Mis adjustment will do it. And they can go our of adjustment from wear.

True but they generally don't go out of adjustment enough to slip in 100 hours.
I'm at 2267 hours with many hundreds of hours forward/reversing, loader work, snow plowing, grading, tilling, Etc. and haven't needed the first clutch adjustment yet. (free play is still around where it was when the tractor was new)

 

[K5lwq]

If the smell is only happening on hard pulls and the clutch adjustment is within the 1" range, what comes to mind is how do you engage and disengage the clutch?

You should not clutch at high RPM. Always idle down. If you are clutching at high RPM and under a load, more damage is being done. It doesn't take long under those conditions to smoke the clutch.

Once a good clutch is locked up, you can shower down on it with any amount of load you want. It will not slip. Once it is glazed over or worn bad, it can start slipping under a load. It will only get worse from there.

Sorry, that's all I got on this one but am eager to hear about what you find. Good luck!

 

[the old grind]

If the smell is only happening on hard pulls and the clutch adjustment is within the 1" range, what comes to mind is how do you engage and disengage the clutch?

You should not clutch at high RPM. Always idle down. If you are clutching at high RPM and under a load, more damage is being done. It doesn't take long under those conditions to smoke the clutch.

Once a good clutch is locked up, you can shower down on it with any amount of load you want. It will not slip. Once it is glazed over or worn bad, it can start slipping under a load. It will only get worse from there.

Sorry, that's all I got on this one but am eager to hear about what you find. Good luck!

^^ This ^^ Also, suppose you're easy 'nuf on the clutch that it isn't all that broke in. That or just whyever the log job(s) glazed it up and it may slip hence for ?? long. (hope not)

Patience to remain in a low gear when pulling heavy loads is kind to dry clutches. Taking off in a mid-high range/gear with a 'substantial' load is far from it.

Not to be about me, but I don't idle a tractor at <1200 rpm or engage PTO at quite half of "PTO rpm" on the tach.

 

[4570Man]

Well, then you don't have a clutch nor a clutch pedal to adjust.

Yes they do. Every HST tractor I’ve ever seen had a clutch pedal. I wasn’t convinced my Grand L actually had a clutch ( the Grand L has an electric pto clutch vs the standard ) but when I had to split the Grand it it did in fact have a clutch.