Chainsaw use - alone

[BrokenTrack]

Just throw these out here have you ever seen faces like this?

To be honest with you, I do not really know what you are referring too.

But as I get older, it takes a lot to impress me. When I sold my grapple skidder a few months ago, the guy that bought it stated how he was not making any money logging. To me that is foolhardy because every mechanical logger I know says the same thing. To me, I do not see how a person could NOT make money logging. But I am not impressed with size or volume, I am impressed with profit per cord.

I can make more money logging with my Kubota on a per cord basis than I ever could with my skidders. It has such low fuel consumption. But 5 gallons of fuel to pull out 6 cord of wood per day, is a higher profit per cord than logging 10 cord per day, and burning 50 gallons of fuel in the skidder. The grapple skidders consume 70 gallons per day. The key of course, is the Kubota has to have good going.

That is where a cable skidder comes in. They can go about anywhere and still pull out wood. But the cost is so low. I can buy a $12,000 used cable skidder, a $1200 chainsaw, and for a total of $13,200 in initial investment, be making money. In less than a months time, the whole thing would be paid off, and every cord of wood cut after that is making me profit.

When I told the guy buying my grapple skidder to just go back to a cable skidder and a chainsaw, he scoffed.

I have never seen an industry like logging. The owners boast about high payments, high operating costs, and whine about losing money, and refuse to go back to the tried and true method of making money.

As I said, I am hard to impress.

I like hearing more about how firewooders, farmers, and hobby forestry landowners use what they have for small equipment to get wood out of the woods on a small scale, than I am people like the Pellitiers who move 5000 cords of wood per week using expensive equipment. Anyone can use a fat checking account to move wood; I like seeing innovation and creativity.

 

[oosik]

The closest I've come to a serious accident. Felling a large Ponderosa pine. The notch and/or the undercut was not made properly. The entire tree kicked back as it fell. It came whizzing back - right past my right shoulder/head as it completed its fall.

A learning experience. Fortunately - not fatal.

Back in the day ( 1983 thru 1986 ) I sold firewood. $45 per FULL chord. I fell, cut to length & split. Those who bought it - came and got it. I didn't make a fortune. But there was $$$ above all my costs.

 

[Skeans1]

The east coast is much smaller scale then out here on the west coast, for out here I’m small with 3 guys that’s includes a truck driver. As far as innovation a lot of it has been happening out here, just across the river from me is where the two tethering companies are.
Here’s some of the innovations we’ve had to do the last few years since none of our mills out here will take short logs anymore. That’s a load of 37’ logs on a TJ1210 well doing a thinning in 25 year old Douglas Fir we do about 75 to 80 tons of those a day depending on how the truck is setup that day.

Now to those faces those aren’t standard run of the mill they’re unique ones a sizwheel for pulling something around that’s leaned back and to the side. Ones a soft faced Dutchman that’ll pull something around that’s leaned out to the side and allow the tree to slip down the side of the Dutchman. The last is what’s called a block or a traditional humboldt this allows the hinge work to flex vs shear off the stump allowing the butt and top to hit at the same time.

Just a side note one thing that will kill a hobby logger or someone that can’t afford a way to load is the tier system of pay with a set average per load for length of say 33’ or 35’ and no self loaders.

 

[Skeans1]

The closest I've come to a serious accident. Felling a large Ponderosa pine. The notch and/or the undercut was not made properly. The entire tree kicked back as it fell. It came whizzing back - right past my right shoulder/head as it completed its fall.

A learning experience. Fortunately - not fatal.

Back in the day ( 1983 thru 1986 ) I sold firewood. $45 per FULL chord. I fell, cut to length & split. Those who bought it - came and got it. I didn't make a fortune. But there was $$$ above all my costs.

If you do a humboldt on the stump vs a conventional face you won’t have a tree come back at you.

 

[LouNY]

To be honest with you, I do not really know what you are referring too.

But as I get older, it takes a lot to impress me. When I sold my grapple skidder a few months ago, the guy that bought it stated how he was not making any money logging. To me that is foolhardy because every mechanical logger I know says the same thing. To me, I do not see how a person could NOT make money logging. But I am not impressed with size or volume, I am impressed with profit per cord.

I can make more money logging with my Kubota on a per cord basis than I ever could with my skidders. It has such low fuel consumption. But 5 gallons of fuel to pull out 6 cord of wood per day, is a higher profit per cord than logging 10 cord per day, and burning 50 gallons of fuel in the skidder. The grapple skidders consume 70 gallons per day. The key of course, is the Kubota has to have good going.

That is where a cable skidder comes in. They can go about anywhere and still pull out wood. But the cost is so low. I can buy a $12,000 used cable skidder, a $1200 chainsaw, and for a total of $13,200 in initial investment, be making money. In less than a months time, the whole thing would be paid off, and every cord of wood cut after that is making me profit.

When I told the guy buying my grapple skidder to just go back to a cable skidder and a chainsaw, he scoffed.

I have never seen an industry like logging. The owners boast about high payments, high operating costs, and whine about losing money, and refuse to go back to the tried and true method of making money.

As I said, I am hard to impress.

I like hearing more about how firewooders, farmers, and hobby forestry landowners use what they have for small equipment to get wood out of the woods on a small scale, than I am people like the Pellitiers who move 5000 cords of wood per week using expensive equipment. Anyone can use a fat checking account to move wood; I like seeing innovation and creativity.

We lost the best logger we had in this area about 5 years ago (cancer got him) he logged with a team of horses. He didn't pull vast amounts out of the woods every day, but he treated the woods so much better then the boys with the big skidders and timber fellers. When he was pulling a log out he had to pay attention to the surrounding trees and the terrain to get the log out, his top and trash pile was much smaller and neater then the mechanical skidders leave. He didn't destroy the ground and leave huge ruts thru the woods. He also damaged much fewer trees that had been left standing. As he always said that he cleared more every month because of his lower cost. Of course he also had a profitable side line, horse pulls are a part of many fairs his teams were always in the top rankings. Because of that he was always turning his teams over for a very good profit, amazing what working a team in the woods pulling and working daily did to their conditioning and ability to work together. Most all of his competitors played at working horses his actually worked.

 

[Skeans1]

We lost the best logger we had in this area about 5 years ago (cancer got him) he logged with a team of horses. He didn't pull vast amounts out of the woods every day, but he treated the woods so much better then the boys with the big skidders and timber fellers. When he was pulling a log out he had to pay attention to the surrounding trees and the terrain to get the log out, his top and trash pile was much smaller and neater then the mechanical skidders leave. He didn't destroy the ground and leave huge ruts thru the woods. He also damaged much fewer trees that had been left standing. As he always said that he cleared more every month because of his lower cost. Of course he also had a profitable side line, horse pulls are a part of many fairs his teams were always in the top rankings. Because of that he was always turning his teams over for a very good profit, amazing what working a team in the woods pulling and working daily did to their conditioning and ability to work together. Most all of his competitors played at working horses his actually worked.

These are some of those thinnings I’ve done in the past impact is as close to 0 as possible most of the trails are a one and done setup.

 

[BrokenTrack]

If you do a humboldt on the stump vs a conventional face you won稚 have a tree come back at you.

The open-face notch will do the same thing without leaving such a high stump.

 

[Skeans1]

The open-face notch will do the same thing without leaving such a high stump.

With doing an open face you’re still doing a humboldt face explain how the stump is any higher? The reason you see higher stumps normally out the PNW is the size, the root flare, or a defect.

 

[BrokenTrack]

The stump has to be higher because you have to get your saw up under the cut. It is used in the west because most trees are on the sides of hills, and as a rule they fell their trees down hill, or have significant root swell.

There is no real need to use the Humbolt Notch here because we do not fell trees on steep ground as often, nor is there any savings. Here, we have to have trim allowance" on logs anyway, which is at least 4 inches, but most loggers make it 6 inches just to be safe. You never get cut on a butt cut log because of the notch, so why make life harder?

The Humbolt Notch can be modified so it is the same as the Open-Face Notch, just upside down, but it is harder to make since your making the slope cut of the notch upside down.

Interestingly, I grew up with the conventional notch, became a certified logger, and was forced to adopt the open-face notch...as I should have. However, I never quite got used to it. To this day my method is 1/2 conventional, and 1/2 open-faced. Basically I make a really deep open-face notch. It should only be 10% the diameter of the tree, but I make mine about 30%, so wayyyyy deep. There are worse ways to cut wood though so it does not bother me.

 

[BrokenTrack]

Note: By "Trim Allowance" I mean a 12 foot log has to be bucked to 12'-4" so a board can be cut square at the mill...or trim it, hence the name. IF a 12 log is cut 12'-3", then it is scaled as if it was a 10 foot log because there is not enough trim. That is why most loggers cut it to 12'-6" just to be sure. A logger would lose a lot of money when logs are automatically scaled 2 feet shorter! 2 inches of extra trim is cheap insurance!