Backhoe Cracked Transmission case between bolts attaching backhoe

[ON84]

Fried1765, you are absolutely correct.
I knew I was asking a lot of the little backhoe, but I knew I could replace it, so I wasn't too worried. But I did not want to damage the tractor, so I always used the stabilizers.

 

[blue1jassid]

Hi Steve,
I don't know how we might follow up on the metallurgy question you raise without Kioti's help. As noted in my follow up, I have found Kioti to be far less than desired in terms of helping. What I think Kioti is facing is what would be a recall for lack of suitability if Kioti acknowledges the problem we have faced. Hence, when I told the Customer Service Administrator that I would try to let the tractor community know of their intransigence, he hung up on me.

When I took issue with the Dealer's representation that the transmission case may not be warrantied if it breaks another time, the dealer advised me to be sure to keep everything stock if I expect to have any success should I ever need to press a third transmission case claim. This, in my opinion, precludes my option to beef up the mounting system. I also wanted to put a hydraulic thumb on the backhoe but am afraid to do so.

Bill Janecke

 

[MinnesotaEric]

What I think Kioti is facing is what would be a recall for lack of suitability if Kioti acknowledges the problem we have faced. Hence, when I told the Customer Service Administrator that I would try to let the tractor community know of their intransigence, he hung up on me.

Bill Janecke

Unless the machine falls down a hill, the pins should take the wear and tear not the mounting system if the mounting system is properly designed. If there is a design flaw and Kioti was smart about managing it, they'd warranty every blessed breakage until everything is out of warranty so as to avoid legal and recall costs. Sadly, my first-hand experience with Kioti warranty department is that they have a history of falling short of customer expectations which will one day bite them in the duff.

 

[blue1jassid]

Hi Threepoint,
The dealer has been the high point through all this. Yes, Kioti did honor the warranty on both fixes. Better yet, the dealer even threw in free transport to and from his shop both times! The dealer was warning me that in his discussions with Kioti, Kioti was blaming "operator error" for the issues and Kioti was indicating to him that they were questioning whether they should honor a subsequent claim on the transfer case should one occur.

I inquired about operating procedures and any limits to operating the backhoe. The dealer was concerned that I might be operating the backhoe "too fast." By that the dealer meant running the tractor at 2400 RPM and ramming and jamming the controls. I set the tractor at about 1700 RPM for backhoe work and am a careful (let's read very slow) operator since I am new to backhoes and tractors. Before ever using the backhoe, I carefully read the manual and did not see any restrictions to operating/digging at an angle to the long axis of the tractor. After my second instance, I again checked the manual and found no restrictions. I asked the dealer and he said no such restrictions exist. We both agree that operating the backhoe at 90 degrees to the long axis of the tractor is likely problematic though not prohibited. The dealer did not believe that my operating procedures, other than the off line digging, should be a problem. I agreed to keep "off line" digging to 45 degrees or less unless absolutely necessary, i.e. too tight to get in otherwise.

The dealer and I discussed why the transmission case might be cracking. He said he had no idea why it might be happening. I brought up the research I had done including looking at other tractors and discussions with metals people. The dealer swallowed hard when I told him of how the other tractors had their backhoes mounted via forgings to the axles. The dealer could not tell me why Kioti mounted the backhoe to the transmission casing other than to say they must have done the research to conclude that the transmission case was up to the task.

I bought a new tractor because I didn't want the problems I am incurring.

Blue1Jassid

 

[JimR]

Hi Steve,
I don't know how we might follow up on the metallurgy question you raise without Kioti's help. As noted in my follow up, I have found Kioti to be far less than desired in terms of helping. What I think Kioti is facing is what would be a recall for lack of suitability if Kioti acknowledges the problem we have faced. Hence, when I told the Customer Service Administrator that I would try to let the tractor community know of their intransigence, he hung up on me.

When I took issue with the Dealer's representation that the transmission case may not be warrantied if it breaks another time, the dealer advised me to be sure to keep everything stock if I expect to have any success should I ever need to press a third transmission case claim. This, in my opinion, precludes my option to beef up the mounting system. I also wanted to put a hydraulic thumb on the backhoe but am afraid to do so.

Bill Janecke

A little note about Kioti being a big pr-ck on warranty issues. I too was told by my dealer that Kioti might not cover my DPF issue if it comes back again. To which I said, As long as it us under warranty they are responsible to fix it.

 

[blue1jassid]

Yeah JimR,
I made the same point with my dealer by asking him to show me what part of the drive train isn't covered by the warranty. He said he was simply passing on what the factory was telling him.

Does anyone have thoughts on whether I dare have a hydraulic thumb (Michigan Iron and Equipment) installed?

Blue1Jassid

 

[blue1jassid]

Hi All,
As an interesting aside, my brother in law who lives about a quarter mile from me and has been operating his Yanmar tractor with backhoe in the same environment I am in, has never experienced a backhoe issue of any sort in the five or so years he has owned his Yanmar. He has owned other tractors before the Yanmar and has told me they all had their backhoes attached to the axles via forgings that clamp on. He says he has never had an issue with backhoe mounts. He is a home builder and has asked much more of his tractors than I have of mine.
Blue1Jassid

 

[SGreene]

Hi Bill,

I'm not too sure what I want to do or how to effectively move forward either. Based on info I feel I'm backed into a corner with this BH and it's mounting design. My dealer is great but I think there are some issues with Kioti Corp. My dealer's tech assured me 1 hour prior to failure that I was properly using the tractor, backhoe, outriggers, and technique, and I was only using the 12" wide bucket. User error was ruled out after failure by the dealer and warranty officer. If Corporate ruled out user abuse twice than this has to be a design or material flaw which, again, I have only heard about on 2018 and newer NX units. I could design a mounting system around the axle tubes but it wouldn't be quick attach and it would probably void my warranty. I'd rather sell the backhoe and be done with it. It sounds like there is a market for the 2485 so I could try to recoup some of my money, but the market is quite spread out so I'm sure logistical costs would kill a deal.

the pins should take the wear and tear not the mounting system if the mounting system is properly designed.

That's right Erik accept in this case the weak link is upstream from the pins. Pin strength doesn't matter if the rear end housing casting is letting go of the mounting brackets.

 

[ovrszd]

A properly mounted backhoe should not crack the transmission. Moreover, even assuming the operator is beating the snot out of the hoe, then I expect the pins to take that beating if the subframe is properly distributing the load and not crack the transmission. This sounds like a design error that should be rectified.

Finally, a logical response.

"Stumps are evil". What the Heck is that about??? :confused3:

 

[ovrszd]

Hi Steve,
I don't know how we might follow up on the metallurgy question you raise without Kioti's help. As noted in my follow up, I have found Kioti to be far less than desired in terms of helping. What I think Kioti is facing is what would be a recall for lack of suitability if Kioti acknowledges the problem we have faced. Hence, when I told the Customer Service Administrator that I would try to let the tractor community know of their intransigence, he hung up on me.

When I took issue with the Dealer's representation that the transmission case may not be warrantied if it breaks another time, the dealer advised me to be sure to keep everything stock if I expect to have any success should I ever need to press a third transmission case claim. This, in my opinion, precludes my option to beef up the mounting system. I also wanted to put a hydraulic thumb on the backhoe but am afraid to do so.

Bill Janecke

Absolutely, positively DO NOT weld on the machine. Your warranty will instantly stop!!!!