Who do you trust?

[Diggin It]

In the 'Operation Mindcrime' track entitled 'Revolution Calling', Queensryche asks the question, who do you trust when everyone's a crook?

My take off on that is who do you trust when everyone is wrong?

I've been in a situation recently of trying to clarify some information in a Government healthcare program. I won't go into detail here, but I've asked three different Government agencies (two Federal and one State) and three other contacts that are listed as authorized to assist and answer questions as well as reading and trying to digest publicly available published documents. One of those is a non-profit community service agency that assists local businesses, governments and individuals. Two others are professional organizations.

I have yet to get the same answer twice. At least 6 different contacts with as many contradictory answers. They've gone as far as pointing fingers at each other claiming their's is the only place knowledgeable enough to ask. When I have them on the phone and point to the printed documents, they say 'that's not how we were trained'.

So then I go to another 'official website' with a form where you can enter data and it spits out results. That form gives me an entirely different result from any of the answers I got by adding in a formula that none of the others even mentioned.

So, who do you trust when everyone is wrong?

 

[Industrial Toys]

No one really. I was very young when I came to a conclusion about religeon, that since EVERYONE seemed to claim they were right, it was more likely they were ALL wrong. My take on it now, is that all have little bits and pieces of Universal TRUTH.

I called an old company I dealt with about pumps for cleaning and painting. Some guy that I had never spoke with, had bought the company. He insisted that changing the nozzle size on a pressure washer won't effect the pressure. Yeah, "EXPERTS" What's the point? In fact, it seems "TRUTH" more often comes from sources other than self proclaimed "EXPERTS" In fact, if I want real information about my John Deere or GMC, they are the LAST places I would go. Sad!

 

[desertdog71]

You're screwed, you're dealing with Gubment.

 

[CobyRupert]

Perhaps your problem is "Asking".

I deal with situations similar, although different.
I'm sure many contractors of all types do this:

I go through 3 phases: Ask, suggest, define.

Step one: Ask the question. (Example: What color do you want house painted?). If no satisfactory definite answer, but just hedges, delays, and "conditional" or contradictory answers, then:
Step two: Suggest an answer. (Example: White paint is on sale this month and is approved by the homeowners association, etc... What do you think?) If still no answer, then:
Step three: "I will paint your house white, unless I hear from you otherwise."

Sound like you might be on step 2 or 3. Define the answer, rather than ask an open question. Put them on the defensive. "I will do (this), based on (that)." If you have issue with (this & that), please see (them, the other agency)." Chances are they won't get off their *ss and go to the bother of defending their inconsistencies.
:2cents:

 

[Diggin It]

I'm on about step 7 which isn't suitable for TBN.

 

[CobyRupert]

I'm on about step 7 which isn't suitable for TBN.

:laughing:

 

[Bird]

This reminds me of the IRS. You can call and ask questions, but if it's later determined that the answers given were wrong, that's your problem. Having heard that, many years ago, I tested it. I, personally, bought a computer to use ONLY at my office at the police department, and ONLY for police work; no personal use AT ALL. So I called the IRS 3 days in a row, speaking with a different person each time, of course. One told me I could take the total cost as a deduction that year, one told me I could not, and one told me I could take a deduction prorated over 3 years.:confused3:

 

[Diggin It]

You're screwed, you're dealing with Gubment.

Sometimes I gotta wonder what Goober meant.

 

[Jstpssng]

This reminds me of the IRS. You can call and ask questions, but if it's later determined that the answers given were wrong, that's your problem. Having heard that, many years ago, I tested it. I, personally, bought a computer to use ONLY at my office at the police department, and ONLY for police work; no personal use AT ALL. So I called the IRS 3 days in a row, speaking with a different person each time, of course. One told me I could take the total cost as a deduction that year, one told me I could not, and one told me I could take a deduction prorated over 3 years.:confused3:

That's a sticky one. Ultimately, it all depends on if you get audited, and who the auditor is, how much of it you can write off. When I was working for myself I needed an ATV in summer and snowsled in winter or else I would be sitting home all day... I also was charging 40$/day to use the ATV. The CPA I was using told me that if I tried to write them off I was asking to get audited. It took me a long time to realize that as long as I documented the use it didn't (or at least shouldn't) matter if they questioned me.

 

[om21braz]

I feel for you. Reminds me of when buying a license tag for a pick-up, I asked the tag bureau, a state patrol officer and a DOT enforcement officer - Do I purchase the weight rating based upon truck alone, truck and trailer tongue weight or truck and trailer total -or- does what weight trailer rated for play into this equation? Just like you - three different answers. I took the DOT answer as they would most likely be the ticket writer if the situation arose.

 

[Aquamoose]

I’m impressed. You ACTUALLY spoke with a LIVE person on the other end of the line with the government?

 

[Bird]

I’m impressed. You ACTUALLY spoke with a LIVE person on the other end of the line with the government?

You have to remember that was more than 30 years ago.:laughing: Even the city, for which I worked, had NO answering machines; all phones were answered by a live person, and if a phone rang 3 times, someone was going to have some explaining to do.

 

[dougtrr2]

I was an internal auditor for the Air Force. Ultimately, everything we did had to go back to a written regulation. Since you are getting conflicting answers I think you need to get back to the written source of the answer. Unfortunately, sometimes even the written source can be somewhat ambiguous. And if you are in a situation that crosses government agency lines they could have regulations that contradict each other. But ultimately you need to get copies of the pertinent regulations and then try to figure it out. At least then you have something official in black and white you can point to, instead of a he said she said situation. There are many instances of regulations changing, but the people implementing them don't realize the change was made.

Doug in SW IA

 

[Diggin It]

I’m impressed. You ACTUALLY spoke with a LIVE person on the other end of the line with the government?

Getting a real person on the phone at State or Federal Government agencies has not been a problems for me. Sometimes you have to worm through phone trees and wait on hold, but they really do come on the line ... eventually.


The problem is finding one that knows what they're talking about, gives correct information and is willing to help solve problems without becoming argumentative. I just had another one of those today ... highly belligerent ... 'we don't need to tell you how or why, you should have known'.

 

[mikester]

So, who do you trust when everyone is wrong?

Remember the saying Opinions are like a*h*les, everyone has one?

All you can do is collect the information and make the best informed decision you can.

 

[Jchonline]

Try and get it all documented. Record phone calls (tell ppl you are doing so) or get it in email/mail from them. Keep a running record of who you talked to on what date time and the content of that conversation. There are many digital tools today that will allow you to take notes and attach files (ie Microsoft OneNote). You can keep a clean record with recorded files. It is a lot of work but you have to ask yourself how much $$$ is this worth to you? Does the time offset it?

 

[fried1765]

Try and get it all documented. Record phone calls (tell ppl you are doing so) or get it in email/mail from them. Keep a running record of who you talked to on what date time and the content of that conversation. There are many digital tools today that will allow you to take notes and attach files (ie Microsoft OneNote). You can keep a clean record with recorded files. It is a lot of work but you have to ask yourself how much $$$ is this worth to you? Does the time offset it?

^^^^^^ absolutely correct!!!

 

[SPYDERLK]

This reminds me of the IRS. You can call and ask questions, but if it's later determined that the answers given were wrong, that's your problem. Having heard that, many years ago, I tested it. I, personally, bought a computer to use ONLY at my office at the police department, and ONLY for police work; no personal use AT ALL. So I called the IRS 3 days in a row, speaking with a different person each time, of course. One told me I could take the total cost as a deduction that year, one told me I could not, and one told me I could take a deduction prorated over 3 years.:confused3:

2 could nave been right

 

[Diggin It]

A lot of these situations can vary based on how the question is asked. If I ask 'Can I do A?', the two most likely answers are 'Yes you can' or 'No, you cannot'. However, the most correct reply might be, 'You can do A only if you do B first'. B might be something I'd never heard of, so how could I have asked about it?

When you're in the positions of the people I've been dealing with, they should be trained and aware enough to probe further if they knew there were other factors that could affect their replies.

 

[mllud]

Todays world has ran me off into the woods to play with my tractors. The cell phone stays on a table like a home phone use to. I do take it on traveling to town.
The recording systems you go through to get information are inhumane. By the time you get a humane your to perturbed to be nice. My lip bleeds to not blame the person on the phone.
Its just wrong to spend hours to deal with issues and not get the right answer.
Ill continue to stay in the woods and keep contact with the world to as little as I can.
I'm happy hiding the woods.
sorry about the rant.
Mike