Didn't Even Grunt

[Texasmark]

I appreciate your guys taking the time to comment on this. Some interesting comments and things to keep in mind. Thanks for your time and comments.

 

[ovrszd]

What kind of serious failure? I can show you just how the loader is mounted to this tractor and you won't believe me when I show it to you.....1" thick steel plate for a material source before they start bending, cutting, welding and drilling (holes for mounting to the tractor frame). Pin holding the loader frame to the tractor mounted receiver is Cat III (removable loader). Loader is rated at 2000# at pin fully raised. Accessory to loader attachment is standard skid steer quick change and the chain was wrapped around the rear of the attachment meaning that 4 Cat II bolts were holding the frame to the loader arms. I can double stack heavy, 5x6 rolls of hay on a semi trailer without grunting.....the loader and mounting design was another reason for buying Branson. I doubt that I was exerting 2000# of force......the chain was 3/8 and didn't break, or even stretch the links.

When it happens you will know. Too late. But you'll know.

As to the strength of your tractor and FEL. Everything you stated is intended to push and lift rather than pull and pry.

As to the load you were pulling, no way to know. But since you were able to pull it out without lifting the rear tires and/or spinning indicates it was a very light load. Tends to give a fella an abundance of confidence. Which can be dangerous.

Without yanking, your tractor doesn't have the traction weight to break a 3/8 grade 70 chain. Probably can't break a 5/16".

 

[ovrszd]

Besides, it reduced the stress on the pulling elements.

Until maximum traction is reached, a lower gear increases driveline stress.

 

[k0ua]

Without yanking, your tractor doesn't have the traction weight to break a 3/8 grade 70 chain. Probably can't break a 5/16".

The tractors most of us own, could be hung suspended off of the ground from a grade 70 5/16 chain. All the rest of the largest ones could be hung from a 3/8.

 

[npalen]

Chain Strength Chart

 

[Texasmark]

When it happens you will know. Too late. But you'll know.

As to the strength of your tractor and FEL. Everything you stated is intended to push and lift rather than pull and pry.

As to the load you were pulling, no way to know. But since you were able to pull it out without lifting the rear tires and/or spinning indicates it was a very light load. Tends to give a fella an abundance of confidence. Which can be dangerous.

Without yanking, your tractor doesn't have the traction weight to break a 3/8 grade 70 chain. Probably can't break a 5/16".

I attempted to lift the end of the log so that it wouldn't dig into the ground as it came up the embankment before the ground leveled off where I was but the only thing that happened was that the front end of the tractor started squatting and with all going on, didn't want to break something in the front axle.

I don't know the grade of the chain. My 2400 elongated the links and broke ⅛ or 3/16" chain didn't measure had just bought it from the hardware store, pulling logs out of the water.

Pull was straight line and the tractor was on level ground....just before it broke to the slope of the pond bank where dug. The rears were full of ballast and the tractor weighs about 6k#.

 

[k0ua]

Chain Strength Chart

That chart showed the WLL (Working Load Limit) The breaking load is about 3 times that. The WLL is the weight (or pull) that you should not routinely exceed to make sure the chain does not elongate or risk breaking. But still 4700 lbs for 5/16 is a lot more than most of our CUT tractors will deliver on the drawbar. Some may get close.

 

[arrow]

What kind of serious failure? I can show you just how the loader is mounted to this tractor and you won't believe me when I show it to you.....1" thick steel plate for a material source before they start bending, cutting, welding and drilling (holes for mounting to the tractor frame). Pin holding the loader frame to the tractor mounted receiver is Cat III (removable loader). Loader is rated at 2000# at pin fully raised. Accessory to loader attachment is standard skid steer quick change and the chain was wrapped around the rear of the attachment meaning that 4 Cat II bolts were holding the frame to the loader arms. I can double stack heavy, 5x6 rolls of hay on a semi trailer without grunting.....the loader and mounting design was another reason for buying Branson. I doubt that I was exerting 2000# of force......the chain was 3/8 and didn't break, or even stretch the links.

Not so much structural as possible hydraulic cylinder failure. One of them lets go under pressure and you won't be questioning. The stress on them with this procedure is opposite for their design. My tractor company (Mahindra) stipulates to not even backfill with a completely rotated bucket because of cylinder stress.

 

[arrow]

That chart showed the WLL (Working Load Limit) The breaking load is about 3 times that. The WLL is the weight (or pull) that you should not routinely exceed to make sure the chain does not elongate or risk breaking. But still 4700 lbs for 5/16 is a lot more than most of our CUT tractors will deliver on the drawbar. Some may get close.

I've logged for 40 years with a 1/4" chain.

 

[k0ua]

If you are going to back drag make sure the bucket is not dumped too far. Keep the bucket nearly flat or slightly dumped, AND keep the lift in "float". That way if you hit something (cedar stump cut close to the ground, rock that won't give etc" you won't pretzel up the hydraulic dump/curl cylinders. The bucket will float over the obstruction instead of digging in. You have to use common sense. If you completely dump the back so that it is rotated backwards, you have just extended a bunch of the dump/curl rods out there from the cylinder and the forces on them can fairly easily pretzel them up.

 

[PsRumors]

For those saying dont use the creep gear, what should the creep gear be used for?

 

[Texasmark]

Not so much structural as possible hydraulic cylinder failure. One of them lets go under pressure and you won't be questioning. The stress on them with this procedure is opposite for their design. My tractor company (Mahindra) stipulates to not even backfill with a completely rotated bucket because of cylinder stress.

If you mean backing up with the bucket vertical and buried in the mud is a no-no, I bent the pair of hyd shafts on a JD 152 loader on a JD 4020 doing that. The Bransons are different as they have an additional arm that lets the bucket tilt while the stress on the cylinders is inline....which the JD didn't have...lateral stresses were on the cylinder shaft.
-------
I guess I really didn't give it a second thought. I do realize that sucking vs blowing on a hyd cylinder is a different level of capacity, and never recall reading any kind of cautions on doing what I was doing and I have a 4 drawer file cabinet full of tractor manuals.

First of all I didn't want to put a tractor in the pond and most of the work area was quite narrow, as that's the way earthen dams are built and the soil was soft and the banks both sides were ⅓, about 30*. That was consideration # 1 and kept me pre-occupied. Both Bransons have wet brakes and brake levers like imported autos so you can depend on them holding when needed.....unlike the Ford systems.

On the problem pictured, I didn't have good access to the tree as I mentioned and didn't know that once I started pulling, the whole thing started moving out of the mud.....kind of had me mesmerized.

 

[ovrszd]

I attempted to lift the end of the log so that it wouldn't dig into the ground as it came up the embankment before the ground leveled off where I was but the only thing that happened was that the front end of the tractor started squatting and with all going on, didn't want to break something in the front axle.

I don't know the grade of the chain. My 2400 elongated the links and broke ⅛ or 3/16" chain didn't measure had just bought it from the hardware store, pulling logs out of the water.

Pull was straight line and the tractor was on level ground....just before it broke to the slope of the pond bank where dug. The rears were full of ballast and the tractor weighs about 6k#.

I don't have any chain smaller than 5/16". I don't have any chain less than 70 grade.

I carry 3/8" grade 70 in the road grader. It weighs 40,000 lbs. I've not stretched it.

 

[ovrszd]

For those saying dont use the creep gear, what should the creep gear be used for?

Creep gears are designed to offer the gear drive tractor substantially slower ground speeds for ground engagement work such as a Rototiller.

 

[PsRumors]

Creep gears are designed to offer the gear drive tractor substantially slower ground speeds for ground engagement work such as a Rototiller.

In regards to a tiller......if it got hung up on something would you still stand the chance of tearing things up?

 

[ovrszd]

In regards to a tiller......if it got hung up on something would you still stand the chance of tearing things up?

Of course. Regardless of what gear you were in.

 

[BertZegers]

For those saying dont use the creep gear, what should the creep gear be used for?

The creep gear is used for tractor work that is done with very low speeds, like planting sweet potatoes and water melons, harvesting sweet corn or sweet potatoes, but when no heavy pulling is involved.

The speed for harvesting sweet potatoes is less than half a mile per hour, some times as slow as the tractor will go. Low gear in creep with dual speed in low and engine rpm only 800 rpm!. This is SLOW, and the engine does not grunt, not even when the digger gets stuck with 6000 lb potatoes on it.
If you get stuck than you shift out of creep to normal low gear to try to get out.

Stuck in low gear dies the engine, stuck in creep gear risks something in the drive train.

 

[ovrszd]

The creep gear is used for tractor work that is done with very low speeds, like planting sweet potatoes and water melons, harvesting sweet corn or sweet potatoes, but when no heavy pulling is involved.

The speed for harvesting sweet potatoes is less than half a mile per hour, some times as slow as the tractor will go. Low gear in creep with dual speed in low and engine rpm only 800 rpm!. This is SLOW, and the engine does not grunt, not even when the digger gets stuck with 6000 lb potatoes on it.
If you get stuck than you shift out of creep to normal low gear to try to get out.

Stuck in low gear dies the engine, stuck in creep gear risks something in the drive train.

Good stuff.

 

[arrow]

If you mean backing up with the bucket vertical and buried in the mud is a no-no, I bent the pair of hyd shafts on a JD 152 loader on a JD 4020 doing that. The Bransons are different as they have an additional arm that lets the bucket tilt while the stress on the cylinders is inline....which the JD didn't have...lateral stresses were on the cylinder shaft.
-------
I guess I really didn't give it a second thought. I do realize that sucking vs blowing on a hyd cylinder is a different level of capacity, and never recall reading any kind of cautions on doing what I was doing and I have a 4 drawer file cabinet full of tractor manuals.

First of all I didn't want to put a tractor in the pond and most of the work area was quite narrow, as that's the way earthen dams are built and the soil was soft and the banks both sides were ⅓, about 30*. That was consideration # 1 and kept me pre-occupied. Both Bransons have wet brakes and brake levers like imported autos so you can depend on them holding when needed.....unlike the Ford systems.

On the problem pictured, I didn't have good access to the tree as I mentioned and didn't know that once I started pulling, the whole thing started moving out of the mud.....kind of had me mesmerized.

Personally, I feel a person should do what they need to do. As a for instance, you'll find plenty of naysayers stating you should never pull from the 3 point for fear of roll-over. Now I witnessed a guy killed doing just that BUT he was on an old Aliis Chamlers literally yanking a hitch much too large for the tractor. The decedent was a 54 year old man who hired us to log his 100 acre lot. There were 4 of our crew there on that day. Two on the landing, a cutter and me coming up on the landing completing a turn with the skidder.
Both guys on the landing told him not to take off with the stems attached to his tractor with one of those being an 18 year old. Even being told this before hand by a couple of experienced people, didn't make a wit of difference to this individual who had been logging this way for quite some time. Only he apparently didn't quite log in the same fashion as he showed us on that day. Don't know what was in his head. Perhaps he needed to show off it front of the logging crew that was on his property but there was a detail involved on that fateful day that was not common place to him.. He went over in a shot and snapped his neck.

I've been doing the same thing for 40 years only I do not yank a hitch. My tractor is weighted in the front with a fel. My hitches are of reasonable size and the 3 point lifting affords cleaner stems and better traction. Not once has my front end come off the ground.
The devil is in the details and advice is a generality without the devil.

 

[ovrszd]

Personally, I feel a person should do what they need to do. As a for instance, you'll find plenty of naysayers stating you should never pull from the 3 point for fear of roll-over. Now I witnessed a guy killed doing just that BUT he was on an old Aliis Chamlers literally yanking a hitch much too large for the tractor. The decedent was a 54 year old man who hired us to log his 100 acre lot. There were 4 of our crew there on that day. Two on the landing, a cutter and me coming up on the landing completing a turn with the skidder.
Both guys on the landing told him not to take off with the stems attached to his tractor with one of those being an 18 year old. Even being told this before hand by a couple of experienced people, didn't make a wit of difference to this individual who had been logging this way for quite some time. Only he apparently didn't quite log in the same fashion as he showed us on that day. Don't know what was in his head. Perhaps he needed to show off it front of the logging crew that was on his property but there was a detail involved on that fateful day that was not common place to him.. He went over in a shot and snapped his neck.

I've been doing the same thing for 40 years only I do not yank a hitch. My tractor is weighted in the front with a fel. My hitches are of reasonable size and the 3 point lifting affords cleaner stems and better traction. Not once has my front end come off the ground.
The devil is in the details and advice is a generality without the devil.

Good post.

I grew up operating small Ford tractors. Started driving one at 7. Dad taught us how to use the 3pt and use it safely. I've pulled a lot with the front tires off the ground.