Didn't Even Grunt

[Texasmark]

Cleaning Willows out of a pond. Got all the growing ones packed up and hauled off and decided to see if I could get this one out of the water. Stump is adjacent to it for an idea as to diameter and location and it was too much for me to do anything with getting it down due to it's size and location. So I just "felled" it into a corner of the pond.

So today I hooked my 6530 to it and put her in 1/24th (Creep) gear, which I have used maybe half a dozen times since 2007....but it was there to use, set the RPMs just over the torque peak (1600) and backed this big sucker out. Had to come at it twice as there was a fence behind the tractor and I had to keep moving up and picking up the slack then come in from the side. The picture showing nothing but grass are the tire tracks where I did the initial pulling....nice grip, soil just right, Creep working as it should, no slipping, no engine going nuts, no slipping the clutch, just nice, smooth, raw power........one of the reasons I bought this tractor. About 25' showing, all in one piece, and more still submerged. When it dries out, will cut in chunks, hang them on the FEL and haul it to the pile.

 

[Bird]

It's always a good day when things work the way you want them to.:thumbsup:

 

[oosik]

Yes, it's such a pleasure to read where a project goes right. That stump is a willow?? I always think of willow being the diameter of my thumb.

 

[BertZegers]

Cleaning Willows out of a pond. Got all the growing ones packed up and hauled off and decided to see if I could get this one out of the water. Stump is adjacent to it for an idea as to diameter and location and it was too much for me to do anything with getting it down due to it's size and location. So I just "felled" it into a corner of the pond.

So today I hooked my 6530 to it and put her in 1/24th (Creep) gear, which I have used maybe half a dozen times since 2007....but it was there to use, set the RPMs just over the torque peak (1600) and backed this big sucker out. Had to come at it twice as there was a fence behind the tractor and I had to keep moving up and picking up the slack then come in from the side. The picture showing nothing but grass are the tire tracks where I did the initial pulling....nice grip, soil just right, Creep working as it should, no slipping, no engine going nuts, no slipping the clutch, just nice, smooth, raw power........one of the reasons I bought this tractor. About 25' showing, all in one piece, and more still submerged. When it dries out, will cut in chunks, hang them on the FEL and haul it to the pile.

I have used tractors in creep gear. If the tractor gets stuck, or has to pull heavy, I would take it out of creep and put it in low gear. In creep when tires get good grip you risk braking gears or shafts. In low gear the engine will die.
What does your manual say? I think I know!

 

[AllByteNoBark]

Good job. That is a pretty big willow. I have read where one large willow can suck up between 50 and 100 gallons of water a day. Your pond will probably thank you.

 

[CobyRupert]

Good job. That is a pretty big willow. I have read where one large willow can suck up between 50 and 100 gallons of water a day. Your pond will probably thank you.

All went well, so this is just Monday morning quarterbacking / "Let me tell you what you should of done":

Bert is likely correct in that it makes sense that tractor has a lot more torque in a low-low creeper gear. (Enough to break gears and shafts?...agree w/ checking manual.)
...but what I'm pretty sure about is: If you think you need to apply extra torque for a pull, you definitely don't want to be pulling with the FEL (or pull anything serious with the FEL in any gear for that matter.)
Tractors are for pulling, but not on their loader arms. You can place a lot of (too much) leverage on the arms.

One waterlogged willow was obviously okay, but if it had snagged on a root, rock, or the bank, etc...the increased torque would be searching for a weak spot (the rock, the chain or the loader arms, mount, etc.. . :2cents:

 

[Texasmark]

I have used tractors in creep gear. If the tractor gets stuck, or has to pull heavy, I would take it out of creep and put it in low gear. In creep when tires get good grip you risk braking gears or shafts. In low gear the engine will die.
What does your manual say? I think I know!

It says don't use it on the highway, nothing about using it for work at Creep speeds!

On the rest of the posts, at first I didn't think I could do it. The photos don't really show the magnitude of the task. I thought about wading out and crawling on the thing with my chain saw and whacking off the side branch which my 16" guide bar might just reach across. Decided that was a bad idea trying to balance on the main stump and attempt that.

On breaking something in creep, pros and cons: It was designed in the tractor to be used in instances where very low ground speed is required. HP consumption requires torque and time....running at 1600 rpm helped to slow the time and the torque was a complex value when the ground engagement of the tires was part of the torque application.

Things went very smoothly and as you can see by the tread marks. Buttttt there is a limit to everything and I thought I would stop where I stopped, having had things go right ( as noted) and not to press my luck. Once I get some pieces lopped off and hauled away, then pulling the remainder out will be a no brainer.

Really, I posted this because Branson Tractors are not one of the heavy hitters and needs all the publicity it can get (opinion) to get a good footing in the market place.....and it seems to be coming along.

I shopped all the major colors in the spring of 2007 for a downsized (from the then current 100 hp I was running ...JD4230C), fully decked out, "retirement" tractor and didn't see anything that I just had to have and temporarily gave up on the idea. In September I was driving down the interstate and saw this lineup of red tractors that looked really good. Made a U turn, salesman showed me the whistles and bells and the rest is history.

On Willows and water absorption, I had no earthly idea I had the Willow "problem" that I had. I have been working about a week, 6 hours a day, with adequate equipment and have 3 huge piles of remnants. Summer time water level should show a marked improve ment this summer. Next step will be to drill holes in the stumps and apply stump killer to finish the job.

 

[ovrszd]

For stump treatment. If fresh cut during the growing season simply splatter a couple tablespoons of Tordon RTU on the stump and it will kill it.

If old cut but still alive and in growing season, drill a hole in the stump and add a couple tablespoons.

It won't kill the stump if it's seasonally dormant.

Great stuff. Cheap. Effective.

 

[ovrszd]

Tractors are for pulling, but not on their loader arms. You can place a lot of (too much) leverage on the arms.

One waterlogged willow was obviously okay, but if it had snagged on a root, rock, or the bank, etc...the increased torque would be searching for a weak spot (the rock, the chain or the loader arms, mount, etc.. . :2cents:

Absolutely. Never pull backwards hitched onto the FEL. A serious failure in the making!!!

 

[npalen]

With regard to using the creeper gear, I wouldn't think that you could be applying any more power or torque than in any of the other lower gears. Traction would be the limiting factor especially on grass. Right?

 

[arrow]

Love the beef in a Branson. Would have bought one but the dealer distribution was abysmal 7 years ago. Hope it's better now. I agree abut not using the fel to tug with but your tractor was built with a creeper gear and I'd use the thing as needed.

 

[k0ua]

Well, I would have pulled from the fixed drawbar for a load that size, yes, and for all the reasons that you all suggested. AND I really like a hydro. but he got er done without damage and that's all to the good. It did look like it hooked up pretty good to the ground. Branson is no lightweight tractor. I like a hydro because you can go dead slow if you need to, and there is some "cushion" as there is no mechanical connection between the engine drivetrain and the wheels. Just a liquid one.

 

[Deere Dude]

I understand the physics in why pulling from the drawbar vs the FEL is important but I find pulling trees slowly with a hydro and a FEL is a very handy way to pull stuff out.

You can raise the base of the tree off the ground making pulling easier because it is not digging into the ground. That makes for a cleaner tree for bucking. Hooks on a bucket make it so easy to hook to the tractor without bending over and maneuvering around the ballast box, although I have pulled from the hitch on the BB.

You can see what is happening while it is happening while looking straight ahead at the project. If the rear of the tractor feels light you can just take your foot off the gas and lower the FEL to a more comfortable pulling angle. It is nice pulling up to a tree and lift the truck and back out.

I have pulled hundred of trees using both FEL and the drawbar and never had a problem either way although I am alert and cautious pulling from either. Not one style of pulling is appropriate for all trees though.

 

[CobyRupert]

Yes, like a lot of things, life is not always a series of "absolutes". As in: "absolutely NEVER do this or that". Never is a big word.
Often things work out fine.....until that time they don't.

It's like working around a rotating PTO with no guards, or folding down the ROPS, or using clamp on bucket forks, etc...it'll work out fine....until it doesn't.

Today's word of the day: "Mitigating".

 

[k0ua]

I understand the physics in why pulling from the drawbar vs the FEL is important but I find pulling trees slowly with a hydro and a FEL is a very handy way to pull stuff out.

You can raise the base of the tree off the ground making pulling easier because it is not digging into the ground. That makes for a cleaner tree for bucking. Hooks on a bucket make it so easy to hook to the tractor without bending over and maneuvering around the ballast box, although I have pulled from the hitch on the BB.

You can see what is happening while it is happening while looking straight ahead at the project. If the rear of the tractor feels light you can just take your foot off the gas and lower the FEL to a more comfortable pulling angle. It is nice pulling up to a tree and lift the truck and back out.

I have pulled hundred of trees using both FEL and the drawbar and never had a problem either way although I am alert and cautious pulling from either. Not one style of pulling is appropriate for all trees though.

Well, those are "light" pulls. and we have all done that. Pulling a log by raising its front and sliding it is ok fro the FEL as far as I am concerned. but the log in the water was something of an unknown, It worked out for him, but the idea was that It might have gotten hung up and could have been an issue. I pull grape vines out of trees with my grapple after I put the clamp attachment plate on it too. But pulling a grape vine out of a tree and say trying to pull stump over are two different things.

 

[npalen]

I've read that the low gear(s) on large 4WD tractors pulling earthmoving pan scrapers are sometimes locked out to prevent use. There is a tremendous amount of torque and resulting geartrain stress generated when filling the pan combined with the traction from the weight of the pan. Special heavy duty drawbars are usually required on the tractors for this application.

 

[zilla24]

I have used tractors in creep gear. If the tractor gets stuck, or has to pull heavy, I would take it out of creep and put it in low gear. In creep when tires get good grip you risk braking gears or shafts. In low gear the engine will die.
What does your manual say? I think I know!

OP - Glad it worked out for you but I had exactly this happen to my MF 1035 some years ago. Tried to pull a post out in reverse with the chain hooked to the loader. Angle of pull put extra load/traction on the front axle and I blew the ring and pinion. Cost me $700 to fix with me doing the work.

 

[npalen]

OP - Glad it worked out for you but I had exactly this happen to my MF 1035 some years ago. Tried to pull a post out in reverse with the chain hooked to the loader. Angle of pull put extra load/traction on the front axle and I blew the ring and pinion. Cost me $700 to fix with me doing the work.

That's a very good example of what could happen with the pull putting almost all of the load on the front wheels and trying to lift the rear wheels off the ground. Better shifting to 2WD in this case.
Gave me pause to rethink my comment in post #10 above even though the tractor may not have been in 4WD.

 

[Texasmark]

Absolutely. Never pull backwards hitched onto the FEL. A serious failure in the making!!!

What kind of serious failure? I can show you just how the loader is mounted to this tractor and you won't believe me when I show it to you.....1" thick steel plate for a material source before they start bending, cutting, welding and drilling (holes for mounting to the tractor frame). Pin holding the loader frame to the tractor mounted receiver is Cat III (removable loader). Loader is rated at 2000# at pin fully raised. Accessory to loader attachment is standard skid steer quick change and the chain was wrapped around the rear of the attachment meaning that 4 Cat II bolts were holding the frame to the loader arms. I can double stack heavy, 5x6 rolls of hay on a semi trailer without grunting.....the loader and mounting design was another reason for buying Branson. I doubt that I was exerting 2000# of force......the chain was 3/8 and didn't break, or even stretch the links.

 

[Texasmark]

Well, I would have pulled from the fixed drawbar for a load that size, yes, and for all the reasons that you all suggested. AND I really like a hydro. but he got er done without damage and that's all to the good. It did look like it hooked up pretty good to the ground. Branson is no lightweight tractor. I like a hydro because you can go dead slow if you need to, and there is some "cushion" as there is no mechanical connection between the engine drivetrain and the wheels. Just a liquid one.

Agree on hydro and infinite speed. Nice but I didn't want a hydro, this is shuttle shift synchro geared and is best for my kind of normal usage. The creep and all the gears just let you connect the gear train with your desired ground speed. For this job I wanted dead slow speed so that I didn't have to ride the clutch and if things started going in the wrong direction, I could stop it before I tore something up. Besides, it reduced the stress on the pulling elements.