Loader Curl/Dump control very stiff

Gregster613 · Dec 13, 2019

Hi fellow 273/293/233 owners, I've been struggling to discover why my loader control valve (on the curl/dump side) seems to be extremely stiff lately and thought I'd ask if any others have had these symptoms?
After it runs for about 1/2 - 3/4 of an hour they seem to loosen up some. It seems as if once the hydraulic fluid warms up some it clears itself up? We don't even have "cold" weather here!! I had similar problems a few years ago with the lift/lower/float side and learned that it was fixed by taking off the end cap, cleaning and re-greasing.
Well I have done that same thing on the curl/dump side twice now and it only makes the control lever free and easily movable for about 1 -2 days then it's the same issue again. Also of note, once the cap is off then all works as smooth as new? I can move the control lever side to side freely and smoothly? Put it back together and smooth as silk for couple of days and then wham back to almost impossible to move side to side! The lift/lower/float works smoothly all of the time. I'm getting vexed by this and wondered if any others had had similar issues like this?
When I say stiff - it's practically moving the entire fender section it's attached to in order for me to get it to move at all! I'm getting afraid that I might break something if I don't manage to figure out what is causing the binding. It's not the three balls under the flap that attaches the cables, nor the cables themselves. It's pretty uncanny that once I remove the end cap all seems to be free and flexible. Clean it all, apply some grease, reassemble and a couple of days later need to do it again?? I'm hoping some one out there has had this and gotten it fixed but just not seen any need to write about it and can shoot me an answer that fixes me again.
I could (maybe should) have put this in the hydraulic section but right now I'm looking for any TYM owners who might have an answer for me.
Thanks, Greg

aczlan · Dec 13, 2019

Can you post a picture of the area with the end cap that you said that you were removing?
We have had a similar issue with our Kubota B7500, in that case the cap on the end of the actual loader valve (where the detent balls to keep the valve locked into float position reside) had some water in it which was freezing up and preventing the valve from moving the spool into the "lower" position.

Aaron Z

Gregster613 · Dec 14, 2019

Hi aczlan, Yes that is the control valve end cap that I refereed to. I've removed it 2x with very limited success. No water, no rust, lots of grease, and once the end cap is off - the entire assembly moves freely as if new. Put it all back together and good for 1 - 2 days and problem is back again. I just can't seem to get it figured out as to the why? Greg

aczlan · Dec 14, 2019

Gregster613 said:
Hi aczlan, Yes that is the control valve end cap that I refereed to. I've removed it 2x with very limited success. No water, no rust, lots of grease, and once the end cap is off - the entire assembly moves freely as if new. Put it all back together and good for 1 - 2 days and problem is back again. I just can't seem to get it figured out as to the why? Greg

Perhaps there is too much grease and there isn't enough room for the end of the control valve to go into it?
Have you tried removing the grease and replacing it, to make sure that there isn't water or crud trapped underneath it?

Aaron Z

Gregster613 · Dec 15, 2019

The 2d time I I had it apart I went very sparingly with the grease, next time it's apart maybe I will try with no grease at all just to see if that helps. I dunno, but it can't hurt anything to try. It's got me confused why so stiff in only that function. There is no float in the curl/dump...? If I ever get it figured out, rest assured I'll post what worked!! Greg

Bkjohns · Dec 16, 2019

Maybe lube the cable?

Gregster613 · Dec 17, 2019

BK, I've done that also...to no avail. As stated, once the end cap comes off, all works perfectly smoothly. Put end cap back on (last time with no grease on anything) and problem comes right back. It's got me stumped. Especially because there are no graphics (that I can find) showing just how the end cap is supposed to function. (ie.. what happens - or is "supposed to happen) inside when lever is depressed, etc., etc.

aczlan · Dec 17, 2019

Does it make a difference if you have the screws holding the end cap in place loose or tight? Wondering if perhaps the cap is bent or has a ding that is interfering with the movement of the valve.

Aaron Z

npalen · Dec 17, 2019

Is the cap vented? Just curious.

Gregster613 · Dec 18, 2019

aczlan, I put the screws back just as snug as when I first removed them, it seems to make no difference and I sure didn't want any to vibrate out and get lost.
npalen, There are no "apparent" holes in the end cap, thus I "assume" not vented.
What I do wonder about is the spring/washer assembly at the very end of the spool. Could it somehow become angled somewhat and get jammed up? It looks exactly the same as the one on the loader for the float action. I don't believe there is any float need for the curl/dump but am unsure. All I do know for sure is once cap comes off valve works freely as like new, put cap back on and day or 2 later stiff again until tractor has run for 1/2 - 3/4 of an hour. Very puzzling!

npalen · Dec 20, 2019

Have you tried a bit of grease inside the cap just in case the spring and/or washer is rubbing?

Edit: Reason I asked about the vented cap is on the slim chance that there could be a pressure buildup in the cap pushing against the spool. I know, sounds silly.

CobyRupert · Dec 20, 2019

...the weird part is not only does it work fine when cap is taken off, but works well for a few days before mystery ailment returns.
...so whatever the problem is, it doesn't immediately return when cap is reinstalled.

CobyRupert · Dec 20, 2019

So it's stiff until tractor has run 1/2 hour...but goes away when cap is removed.
...leads one to believe it's possibly something heat related (i.e. goes away once warm(er) oil starts circulating.)

Like others have mentioned is there too much grease...or some kind of "tar" / residue that's stiff when its cold, loosens up when warm?
....that or aliens!

Gregster613 · Dec 20, 2019

The last time I took the cap off I tried putting it back together with hardly any grease; it didn't seem to make any difference. The next time I remove the cap I'm going to try putting a slight coating of Fluid Film inside vice the grease. I think that for some reason the small little opening at the farthest end of the cap is causing the small round washer to bind up until the oil warms everything up? I just can't figure out why this is happening - out of the blue? I thought at first that the spool itself was binding, but upon removing the cap completely, then the spool immediately functions as it's supposed to. So that should eliminate the spool and the cables? It's a puzzler for sure.

I'll eventually find some solution - I'm hoping - but I haven't had the time lately to pursue it due to the holidays approaching and numerous other items that take priority (SWMBO) states!
If and when I get it puzzled out I'll post what worked.

Bkjohns · Dec 20, 2019

Looks like the caps are the same, so maybe swap them and see what happens?

CobyRupert · Dec 24, 2019

“Small opening at end of cap” ???
Not just a cap?
Pics might help.
What if you dremel hole larger?

Gregster613 · Dec 30, 2019

Colby, What I was referring to is the small "indentation" formed on the "inside" of the cap at the farthest end of the cap; formed into and part of the cap itself. The spot where the spring/plunger for the float slips into - I assume. I did "not" mean to imply that there are any holes in the cap itself. Sorry for the imprecise wording I used. Both of the caps are identical, however the lift/lower side uses the float feature while the curl/dump side has no need for float. I'm going to find some time today to fiddle with it some more and I'm going to try coating the insides with fluid film and see what that produces.
Greg

Gregster613 · Jan 6, 2020

Well, I put fluid film inside vice grease and it is a bit better but still very stiff when first started up. After running the hydraulics some (a short while) and the oil warms to touch (hoses I mean) then it's all good again. I believe my loader valve itself (the spool inside) is what's initially sluggish; then as oil warms it frees itself up. Sticky to slide forwards/backwards. I don't know of any way to flush out the valve itself, and since it does (eventually) work fine I'm reluctant to be taking things apart anyhow. I just find it perplexing that out of the blue it would start to do this and only on the dump/curl side.

My hydraulic oil is clean, filter and strainer good [although I haven't opened them up since my 50 hour checkup and I'm at about 900 hrs now] and the hydraulic oil shouldn't effect just one side of a spool valve anyway I'd think. Guess I'll just have to live with it as it is. I'm a believer in "If it ain't broke - Don't fix it." It's just a bummer to have to fight to get it moving to hook up to anything on the loader at the start of a job. I've now gotten my diverter valve and thumb assembled, in place, and working but am slowed to use them until my hydraulic oil warms up. Oh well, just thought I'd inform about the fluid film. It seems to be working fine but was not the cure all for the problem.

NEEDLES617 · Jan 11, 2020

A new loader valve is $550 if you're feelin froggy.

Gregster613 · Jan 13, 2020

Needles617...Not froggy yet, $550 buys me a whole lot of patience!! But that's most likely the only sure cure for my dilemma. Is that a dealer item/price? If I knew how to successfully cross-reference valves could probably find one much cheaper online. Like a Prince valve, or somewhere else. I'd want it to be a bolt-on replacement though, everything fitting the same. No idea on how to chase that thought though.