SCUT's with backhoes

[Jchonline]

One of the main reasons I avoid them. I have no interest in adding to their clickbanks.

Another is that I just don't trust the site integrity, period.

I sure hope your alternative source isnt mass media! That said we do have to remember YouTube is also about marketing so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Oldoak]

"All about marketing"? I don't know about that. I have found many useful, very helpful videos on how to repair machinery or just different methods of going about things. I guess it all depends upon what YouTube channels your are clicking on.

 

[blacktruck]

In 1985 I bought my first compact tractor, a JD750 MFWD. Tractor, loader, mower, back blade and backhoe. Co-workers thought I was nuts spending that much money on the rig. Soon after, though, I was beginning to get asked to do small jobs for others and even contractors that couldn't get their equipment into back yards, barns, woods, etc. Within about 5 years the backhoe attachment alone had made enough money to pay for itself and probably the whole rig. And all on only 20HP at the engine! Some of the jobs that I can remember: Countless stumps and shrubbery removed. Landscaping jobs. Prep work for sidewalks and steps. Footings dug for backyard garage, deck, sunroom additions. Two separate septic systems installed in difficult conditions. Water lines dug in below the frostline to horse barns & corrals. Underground leaks in waterlines repaired. Electrical trenches, French drains, and drainage ditches dug. Old posts and fence lines pulled. I'll surely remember more after I post this but the drift is there. All jobs by word of mouth and usually because contractors couldn't access the area with their machines, the jobs were too small, they needed it done right away, and/or they didn't want the mess that a big rig would make in their site. Almost forgot about the egress window wells being installed and the digging needed for them. I even dug out under an existing carport to put footings under the new walls and the concrete floor. Not enough room to list all the wife's landscaping jobs...?..

That is exactly where I am with the whole discussion about to have or not to have a BH on a SCUT. In some applications they are exactly the right piece of equipment. Good job on finding and doing the work with yours.

A few things I've used my backhoe for this Summer. Not to mention a lot of trenches I've dug.
They're not for everybody, but they're definitely a useful tool to have in the toolbox!

View attachment 627073

The RK is still on my list of tractors when I get a new one. It is obvious that you are getting some real use out of yours. Where did you find the root ripper you have installed? One of the things that I do like is the ability to get a thumb on the hoe. For anyone that has ever used one, a thumb makes a lot of difference in some tasks. I also see the ammo box mounted on yours. I'm retired form the Army and handled my share of those or something very similar over the years.
Yes the SCUT with a BH is a great tool for some. In the right hands it can do more than most people think for a small tractor.

 

[snymat68]

The RK is still on my list of tractors when I get a new one. It is obvious that you are getting some real use out of yours. Where did you find the root ripper you have installed? One of the things that I do like is the ability to get a thumb on the hoe. For anyone that has ever used one, a thumb makes a lot of difference in some tasks. I also see the ammo box mounted on yours. I'm retired form the Army and handled my share of those or something very similar over the years.
Yes the SCUT with a BH is a great tool for some. In the right hands it can do more than most people think for a small tractor.

Made the ripper myself...
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/412464-homemade-root-ripper-backhoe.html

BTW, the backhoe comes standard with the thumb. (It didn't before, but it does now.)

 

[cdaigle430]

Tractor Dell and cdaigle430, both of you have very good points.

And maybe at this point I am beating a dead horse, so I will leave this alone after this.

But my question is why do the people who buy the smallest tractors need a backhoe, where the people who buy the next size up don't seem to need them, at least not as much, based on the way the average SCUT v. CUT is equipped on the dealer lot? So if I decide I only need an 18-20hp SCUT I need a back hoe, but if I buy a 20 or 22hp CUT all of the sudden I no longer need a backhoe? Even though based on weight, capacity etc, more than likely the 20hp CUT would be more capable than the 20hp SCUT. So why don't more people purchase a backhoe when they buy the larger sized tractors?

Seems like no real reason, maybe just a way to make the SCUT's more profit for the dealer? Or maybe a way the tractor manufacturers' make their baby tractors look more like big boy tractors? So they are more appealing to buyers who think they need or want more tractor than they actually do?

Thanks again for everyone who took the time to respond.

Good question and I believe its because of the consumer that buys them. The SCUT is geared towards estate owners for the most part....home improvement and landscaping and that is exactly what my needs were. I recently switched to homesteading after most of my home improvements were completed and found that it doesnt have much use in that environment, the loader is still invaluable though. Since I bought the 3p Post hole digger I need the BH even less....but its comforting knowing that I have it. I did remove a stump with it last spring.

 

[blacktruck]

Made the ripper myself...
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/412464-homemade-root-ripper-backhoe.html

BTW, the backhoe comes standard with the thumb. (It didn't before, but it does now.)

My experience with the small hoe would tell me the ripper tooth would be a game changer in the right hands. I checked the video link. Great looking piece of equipment. Making it QA would be nice but as long as the pins aren't difficult to remove I would use that as just time for a break anyway. I have no designs of ever doing production type of work with mine but the ripper and thumb sure would be handy when clearing fence rows. Most of the soil where I live is fairly easy to work but the trees are plentiful so even for digging it might be a good way to loosen up the ground first.

 

[cdaigle430]

A BH on a SCUT is a glorified hand shovel. I think it makes people like you (no offense I mean small acreage suburban homeowners) get excited about owning something that feels like a real piece of construction equipment. They sell you dreams of doing all kinds of tasks with that backhoe you see on so many job sites as you drive by them. It is all marketing. The simple answer is you see them BECAUSE THEY SELL WELL.

Now you can dig the occasional trench or stump if you have 5 hours to burn.....but you are correct they arent really that productive.

As a counterpoint, check out the Youtube channel Tractor Time with Tim..he runs a JD 1025R and has a backhoe that is used for some commercial work in early videos. However now he has gotten smarter and uses a Mini-Ex.

LOL-Obviously you have never owned one It is anything but a glorified hand shovel-info sure where you got that info. Without a specific criterea if you think about it they all are until you get to the ones with joystick control instead of levers-no matter what size it is.

And even if it is a glorified hand shovel(but it isnt) then so what? Saves my back and sweat and ticker. If your using it for making $$ then yes it makes sense to move to a mini excavator...I am not.

Tractor Time with Tim is just a gloried advertisement for products-its all based on his opinion as en estate owner......who the heck can afford 40,000 for a mini excavator that does what-only digs trenches and big holes? He is fortunate where they let him borrow these things for advertisement-I am not so lucky.

 

[cdaigle430]

I think anyone buying a bigger cut is more likely going to be doing more typical farm type jobs (field work etc) as such they are marketed at the dealer like that. The really small scut is as mentioned geared for the homeowner with a few acres that wants to be able to do more than just cut grass. By putting a loader and a backhoe on it (and often with the mower deck still on as well! ) they can market a tractor that looks like it can do it all. Don't forget the "upsell" concept. Why should I sell you just a tractor to cut grass when I can tempt you into buying one with some other cool attachments on it!
The bigger tractor buyer likely has specific tasks at mind when they walk into the dealer and generally backhoe work is not likely it. Or at least not as the main task. Also a backhoe on a larger tractor adds a lot more cost vs a smaller backhoe on a scut. Harder to upsell that! I'm sure if you look at what get's sold commonly with a larger cut it's likely something else other than a backhoe (box blade as a random example ) so it makes more sense to market the bigger cut with whatever is the biggest seller in that market area.

E.

These opinons are at best close minded. Do you think Im stupid or SCUT owners like me are stupid? Do you think we will just spend 20k on a silly toy? These SCUTs are real tractors-real machines and get the job done-better than a larger tractor in alot of cases. My doesnt tear the crap out of my lawn when I dig a trench like a mini excavator does. I can easily park mine in the shed or garage, maintenance is alot easier, they are the swiss army knives of the tractor world. Mini excavators have their place but I cannot use it to blow snow once the trench is dug. Its a single use only machine. You cannot mow the lawn with an excavator, or dig post holes with a posthole digger on you excavater unless you want a big gaping whole to fill back in.

I think those who dont understand a SCUTs use are simple minded-unlike some of you I cannot afford to go out and buy a dedicated machine for each and everything I want to because it specializes in it.

4 years ago I moved 18-18 yard truck loads of gravel with my little SCUT-try doing that with your mini excavator. I have a rear 540rpm PTO, a mid 1000 RPM PTO and 3PH a loader and a BH-thanks you very much.

I am not some stupid consumer who slaps down 20,000 on a machine that does nothing.

 

[Egon]

It’s rather comical reading about the hand shovel comparisons. Them folks don’t realize that there dedicated backhoe/excavator that can dig ten foot deep trenches with ease would only be considered hand shovels by the fellows who can dig a twenty foot trench and load a dump truck with the backhoe. Perspective is difficult for some.

 

[Industrial Toys]

You don't have to look any farther than a line like D.R. that does a GREAT business selling their line of little toys to homeowners. Sure, like a little backhoe, they are usefull (I guess). I couldn't use one, anymore than I could have use for a FEL on basically a garden tractor. But I bet, there is more and easier money to be made selling more little equipment than bigger stuff. Probably same market, as would buy a ridiculously long "camping" trailer. Need, or amount of usefullness doesn't even come into the equasion.

 

[bird dogger]

It痴 rather comical reading about the hand shovel comparisons. Them folks don稚 realize that there dedicated backhoe/excavator that can dig ten foot deep trenches with ease would only be considered hand shovels by the fellows who can dig a twenty foot trench and load a dump truck with the backhoe. Perspective is difficult for some.

Exactly!! And then again, to prove your point even more, that same large excavator that can dig 20 foot trenches would be considered a Tonka toy next to the dragline excavators that remove the overburden on the coal fields that supply coal to the coal fired electrical generation plants. You can drive a small car around in those buckets! And the boom is so far out and the bucket so far down that the operator has to use closed circuit tv to see what he's doing! :laughing: Yup, its all perspective.

Re: glorified hand shovel. I remember a few times thinking that things were going much to slow for some reason and I would get done much sooner by using a hand shovel. Going down in the hole with a shovel and jumping on the spade part would just about break my ankles. I couldn't believe how hard that ground was and that the so called glorified hand shovel was doing quite well for its size!!

 

[Diggin It]

^^^ Yeah, mine has dug ground that laughed at my foot and a shovel. I have a lot of gravel 2-3" diameter. A shovel instantly stops on those. And when 6 or 8 of them are together, they lock in so a shovel is useless. Li'L Blue just drags them all away in one sweep.

 

[GeneV]

You don't have to look any farther than a line like D.R. that does a GREAT business selling their line of little toys to homeowners. Sure, like a little backhoe, they are usefull (I guess). I couldn't use one, anymore than I could have use for a FEL on basically a garden tractor. But I bet, there is more and easier money to be made selling more little equipment than bigger stuff. Probably same market, as would buy a ridiculously long "camping" trailer. Need, or amount of usefullness doesn't even come into the equasion.

This website, oh man, sometimes this website lol! A few months ago on a thread about ar rifles, some dude was arguing the most ridiculous bs with such conviction, I was like, he's GOT to be trolling!

 

[Industrial Toys]

Hardly BS. Maybe just the Truth. This little equipment works, but really for the amount of work it can do, is quite overpriced. But hey, like I said, when it comes to toys, cost often isn't a big consideration. Heck, sometimes the higher the cost of some "toy", the better the status symbol. Makes the Jones sit up and take notice!

 

[GeneV]

Ahh, so now it's merely a price issue? Ok, so what should our toy tractorettes be priced at?

 

[Tractor Time with Tim]

LOL-Obviously you have never owned one It is anything but a glorified hand shovel-info sure where you got that info. Without a specific criterea if you think about it they all are until you get to the ones with joystick control instead of levers-no matter what size it is.

And even if it is a glorified hand shovel(but it isnt) then so what? Saves my back and sweat and ticker. If your using it for making $$ then yes it makes sense to move to a mini excavator...I am not.

Tractor Time with Tim is just a gloried advertisement for products-its all based on his opinion as en estate owner......who the heck can afford 40,000 for a mini excavator that does what-only digs trenches and big holes? He is fortunate where they let him borrow these things for advertisement-I am not so lucky.

Here is yesterday’s episode where we dug our a stump with the 1025r and 260b backhoe.

Friend Rescue! Stump Removal Deere 1025R Hydraulic Backhoe Thumb! - YouTube

Yes, a mini ex is MUCH more functional than a small backhoe, but the backhoe can usually get the job done.

 

[Diggin It]

Oh goody, more veeedeeeoooos.

Who needs words, right? Maybe just abolish writing and typing altogether?

And the clicks for revenue, can't forget that.

 

[Overtaxed]

My 2c. I read many threads like this 5 years ago when moving to our new property and looking at tractors. Lots of people chimed in that tractor backhoes are toys, you don't need one, won't use it enough, etc. Didn't have one for the first 2 years, and, after that, broke down and bought a J2720 with a hoe for a really good price. A few observations:

I'm very happy that I have a "dedicated machine" instead of an add on hoe. It's a PITA to get the hoe on/off, if I had it for my Kioti, I wouldn't use it nearly as much knowing I'd have to remove implement/attach hoe/reattach implement every time. In this respect, the posters were right, I wouldn't have used it enough as an individual piece of equipment to justify the price.

Now, where they were "wrong"? I love my hoe. Love it. Us it for all kinds of things, it's absolutely saved me time in urgent care (not trying to lift stupid things) and saved me $$ in rental (I do sometimes get a mini-ex for a few days, but, much less since I got the hoe). Having it hooked up, ready to go, wife gets 3 plants from the nursery, I'm getting it to plant. We have red clay here, digging a hole for a 3 gallon pot is exhausting, with the hoe, I'll do it all day for her, she'll get tired of setting plants out before I get tired of digging. Also, as an aside, when you have a hoe, you do a much better job planting, instead of digging a 3 gallon hole, I dig a 10-20, mix the dirt nicely, break up the compaction, and give the trees a better start. You can tell, the trees planted with the hoe are doing better than those planted by hand.

Adding a thumb, there are just so many uses for it. Cutting firewood, I'll grab the log, lift it, and start cutting. Ripping out vines/small trees, just grab and pull. Moving railroad ties around for landscaping, grab and lift.

I'm very happy I got it, and, I'm also confident, if I wanted out of it tomorrow, I'd get near what (maybe more) than I paid for it, it's a whole machine, ready to roll (and not just a hoe, those can be hard to sell because they are specific to tractor, you need to sell the tractor and the hoe). Also, I do use it for other things, it's much smaller and lighter than my Kioti, so moving mulch around, moving rock, etc. I think I've put about 50 hours on the machine since I got it, at this pace, it'll last "forever", and if I keep it up, I think I'm near the bottom of the depreciation cycle for it. But even if I wasn't, if I get 10 years out of it, and at the end of that time, it's worth 0 dollars (which is not going to happen), it still would have been really inexpensive per year to own this machine.

All that said, if you see a use for one, you will probably love it. I'd just say, my experience, buy a tractor setup for it (not something you plan to take on/off much), and you'll use it much more than one for your "do everything" tractor.

 

[mikester]

If you live in a country estate subdivision with 1 or 2 acres and want to do some HD gardening then a SCUT TLB is a nice machine that will fit in the garage and will be better than any riding mower you might buy at a big box store. If you live on a farm and need to move a lot of dirt or dig out larger stumps and dont want to spend all weekend doing it then a full sized construction TLB and a 60-80 PTO HP cabbed tractor would be the ticket. A regular SCUT with MMM for lawn mowing or zero turn if you want to mow acreage fast.

 

[GeneV]

Here is yesterday’s episode where we dug our a stump with the 1025r and 260b backhoe.

Friend Rescue! Stump Removal Deere 1025R Hydraulic Backhoe Thumb! - YouTube

Yes, a mini ex is MUCH more functional than a small backhoe, but the backhoe can usually get the job done.

I saw that vid. I like your channel Tim, you make handy vids, thx.