Power beyond on CaseIH 75c

[screamin400]

Dealer is telling me there is no power beyond for a CaseIH 75c. They also tell me that is the case for all CaseIH Farmall series. They put a divider valve on my 75c and I hate it with the grapple. Does anyone have any ideas I may be able to come back at them with? 2 functions at once is not nearly as nice as 3. What did you guys use?

 

[RNeumann]

I’ll follow along cuz I don’t know. Typically the loader control would have a PB port. If yours doesn’t the control might be able to be changed. Again, I don’t know- just a general thought.

 

[ericm979]

If it's open center (nearly all CUTs are but I don't know if this is a CUT) and there's 7 ports on the loader valve, one of them is power beyond. It usually leads to the 3pt which is often inside the very rear of the transmission case.

If there's no kit you may have to figure it out for yourself.

Even with a true 3rd function it's likely that you won't get the grapple to open/close at the same time the loader's going up or down and you're curling the bucket. Each set of cylinders is open to the same system pressure and the one with the least resistance will move first. Loader raise/lower and curl can be made to work at the same time reasonably well with with well designed and made loader valves but the 3rd function and grapple will probably not be balanced with them.

 

[screamin400]

No pb port on any of the Farmall CaseIH tractors. My Mahindra has it and the grapple works 10 times better. I expected a more expensive tractor to have it. I guess not a deal breaker but kind of embarrassing for Case that my Mahindra would be my go to grapple tractor

 

[RNeumann]

What vintage is the Case?

 

[screamin400]

What vintage is the Case?

2017 model

 

[ptsg]

If it's an open center system (Tractordata says it is), it will have power beyond.

It is just a matter of knowing where to tap into. A hydraulic diagram would definitely help.

I've been looking at online listings for the 75C, where they put loads of pictures. From what I could barely see of the loader valve, you can use the power beyond from that valve. We just need to identify the right hose, so you feed the 3rd function valve using that.

 

[screamin400]

If it's an open center system (Tractordata says it is), it will have power beyond.

It is just a matter of knowing where to tap into. A hydraulic diagram would definitely help.

I've been looking at online listings for the 75C, where they put loads of pictures. From what I could barely see of the loader valve, you can use the power beyond from that valve. We just need to identify the right hose.

Tractor is sitting at Case dealer now. Case themselves have now confirmed no power beyond on any CaseIH Farmall series. Not sure I have many options

 

[LouNY]

Per the CIH website the 75c is an open center system with 1 or 2 rear remotes,
they have a couple of different loader options.
The factory kit is a diverter type setup,
are you wanting to use a different loader valve with 3 spools or?

 

[screamin400]

Per the CIH website the 75c is an open center system with 1 or 2 rear remotes,
they have a couple of different loader options.
The factory kit is a diverter type setup,
are you wanting to use a different loader valve with 3 spools or?

I don't really know other than I want it to work like a power beyond. That is the way I purchased it in my mind but was never really discussed. Dealer is saying nothing can be done but they are looking into it more. Just looking to see what folks on here did so I may keep that in my back pocket

 

[ptsg]

What's the setup on your Mahindra?

Probably a 3rd function solenoid valve controlled by 2 buttons on the joystick? If that's the case, then it can also be done on the Case, although at a bit higher price as the Case requires bigger valves and hoses to handle the extra flow.

 

[LouNY]

How does a power beyond work in your mind?

On the tractors with medium flow open center pumps a power beyond valve will operate like a normal valve but if the main valve in front of it is fully opened as in lifting with a loader there is no flow available for the power beyond valve to operate with, when you back off on the fluid flow request by backing off on the main control valve and fluid not being used can pass on to the next operated valve.

On a higher flow unit with a closed center or power on demand system (or as CIH calls it a closed-center, pressure-flow compensating hydraulic system) as you are opening valves to perform hydraulic functions you can get more then one valve to function at the same time until your valving selection exceeds your pump capacity.

 

[screamin400]

I do not know the terms. I want all functions to work like my Mahindra does. Hopefully the Case dealer gets this figured out somehow. I only know they have told me it cannot be done in a power beyond manner like they said my Mahindra is. I hope they come up with something. I was hoping you folks knew of a simple solution that I could understand. I do not know hydraulics I only know what I need it to do. Pretty much I am making sure there is no way it can work the way I need it to. This spring I have a contract setting large concrete blocks. I need to be able to grab one, lift it and tilt back while under pressure so I do not drop it. Right now it cannot do that. I do not want to lose that contract.

 

[oldnslo]

Screamin400
What is your ultimate desire for function capabilities with this grapple?

Do you want to be able to run multiple functions simultaneously?

Do you Require good positioning (speed) control on all functions.

If yes to the above questions they are both features dictated by the metering capabilities of each valve section along with operator capabilities. I.e. ham fisted operator none of the above matters....

Some valves have very poor metering while others have great metering.

Power beyond: multiple factors figure into on how or if you have power beyond and can access it.

Some of them are:
1) can you operate the loader and rear remotes without having to shift a selector valve?
2) where and how are the valves mounted? I.e. is the loader valve on bracket or direct mounted onto transmission case via O-ring interface.

If you can operate the loader and rear remotes without shifting a selector valve and your tractor is an open center system you in essence have a power beyond system.

If all the valves are direct mounted to the transmission case the power beyond passage could be internal and not accessible for use.

This is just some ideas of all the different factors that weigh into how a valve or system performs.

Best wishes on getting a satisfactory result

 

[screamin400]

I just want to be able to close the clamps with a button on the loader lever and be able to tilt, raise or lower at the same time. I need to be able to hold the clamping button down and have the loader working like nothing on it has changed. Case is telling me this is not available on this model

 

[LouNY]

I'm thinking that you are correct that you can not have 3 active valves working on that system at the same time.
One work around that might work would be a pressurized accumulator on the clamp diverter circuit to maintain pressure while the lift and tilt functions are being used.
Lower and tilt use the switch to clamp, release the switch then raise and tilt with the accumulator maintaining the clamping pressure.

Or an auxiliary pump off the pto to a dedicated electric valve for the grapple.

Good luck

 

[vlcakc]

Don't know about a Farmall 75C, but the dealer told me a factory third function valve was not available on the 2018 Farmall 55C I purchased. I ordered a EA Wicked Grapple with optional third function valve, which is a W R Long brand I believe, that the dealer agreed to install. Works very well. Clamps, tilts, raises, etc. at the same time. Might want to check with Travis at EA to see if a valve for the 75C is available.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/case-ih/393263-case-farmall-55-cvt.html?highlight=

Ted's video from EA does a pretty good job of explaining the hook-up. My dealer said he altered EA's recommended installation somewhat.

How To Series - 3rd Function Auxiliary Hydraulics for Tractor Loaders - YouTube