Comparison kubota/ kioti specs and experience

[murphy1244]

But JD has a copyright on the paint scheme.

Prove it

 

[nards444]

Prove it

Paint scheme no, actual color of paint I would bet they have it patented. We used to do plaster/stucco like you see on most fast food places, Arbys MCdonalds etc. When we were mixing our paint, or finish coats, the tint base could not be found, it actually came from Arbys, McDs corporate HQ.

 

[RSR]

Prove it

Deere Wins Trademark Lawsuit in Protection of Green and Yellow Colors

 

[murphy1244]

Deere Wins Trademark Lawsuit in Protection of Green and Yellow Colors

Thanks RSR. So paint scheme yes, paint no.

 

[Dranrab]

talked to the owner of a kioti dealer other day which i happen to know(just came about wasnt in market for one), anyway he states that kubota is one of the lowest rated tractors out there as far as specs. says kioti has way higher lift capacties front and back and alot more flow as far as the hydraulic pumps. now i havent got into actual research of this myself, but was looking at some of your inputs for those who have owned/operated both and so on?? we do have a kubota now and have had for sometime, dont have to many complaints with it nice tractor. but when its time to replace wonder how much i should consider the kioti. is its usability as good or better?

This thread went off the rails pretty quickly. A few weeks back I created a spreadsheet on all of the smallest compact 24-26 HP tractors (one size above sub-compact) each manufacturer makes. I too noticed that the FEL capacity on the Kubota B2610 was substantially lower than that of all of the competition other than the Massey 1526. The 3 PT lift capacity was squarely in the middle of the pack. The weight is second to the lowest of the 12 machines I compared. The Kioti CK2510 is the heaviest in the class I compared, but has the lowest 3PT lift capacity and an FEL capacity that is in the middle of the pack.

 

[LouNY]

The Kioti have very good specs, and to me they feel better the the "other" orange.

Of course the original orange was even better Allis Chamlers, danged foreign color copiers. :cool2:

 

[sd455dan]

This thread went off the rails pretty quickly.


A few weeks back I created a spreadsheet on all of the smallest compact 24-26 HP tractors (one size above sub-compact) each manufacturer makes. I too noticed that the FEL capacity on the Kubota B2610 was substantially lower than that of all of the competition other than the Massey 1526. The 3 PT lift capacity was squarely in the middle of the pack. The weight is second to the lowest of the 12 machines I compared. The Kioti CK2510 is the heaviest in the class I compared, but has the lowest 3PT lift capacity and an FEL capacity that is in the middle of the pack.

If Branson ever (actually) starts selling the 2515 H and R model they will dominate the 25 hp compact class in almost all specs.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have bought off shore jacks, or winches that won't lift a fraction of what they are rated for, so what good are specs? And sometimes if they do live up to the specs, they simply break sooner rather than later.

 

[PEJ5]

Careful! Them there are fightin' words on this here forum. The unwritten rule seems to be "Thou shalt not question the superiority of Kubota".

I posted this comparison a little while ago (and was met with a torrent of derision). But, being an engineer, I tend to rely on hard numbers, as opposed to gut feeling and how things feel.

The plot below shows loader lift comparisons at the loader pin between a Kubota LA805 loader (spec'd out on a L3560) versus comparable loaders from other brands in similar sized tractors. While I don't have the full loader curves for all brands (kudos to Kubota for supplying it to their customers) you can compare the lift capacities of the Kubota at the same lift height with the other brands. If you're comparing Kioti to Kubota, a DK10SE series is very similar in frame size to a Kubota L3560. If you look at the green "x", you'll see the Kioti lifts about 46% more than the Kubota. That's an apples-to-apples comparison, and numbers don't lie.

Now, to get past the marketing hype, I think you have to ask yourself, "does it really matter"? For me, loader lift capacity was a major priority. I doubt that's the case for most people. As has been mentioned here already, high loader lift capacity does nothing for you if you can't keep the rear tires on the ground. This often requires additional ballasting, which may bring additional consequences (rutting in yards, the mess of filling tires and fixing flats, stress on axles, etc.). Only you can decide if that's important to you or not. As is oft-repeated here, I would make a decision based on what you need the tractor to do, not what it necessarily can do. If you don't need the loader lift capacity, or hydraulic flow, or whatever, why worry about it?

I do also, somewhat, agree with the comment that a dealer should be able to sell a tractor based on its strengths, as opposed to pointing out the weaknesses of others. It's one thing to present facts, it's another to try to use those facts to slander/bad-mouth another brand. You were there, so you know which approach it was. If it was the latter, I would be leary.

View attachment 619545

Loader Max lift may not be critical, but everyone is likely to compare numbers.* When I initially started shopping I focused on the L3301 and CK3510.* The L3301 is only capable of 1155 lbs while the CK3510 is 1860 lbs (50% greater).* There was no way I was going the invest CDN$24,200 for a tractor that could not even lift 1200 lbs.*


Kubota may be taking the higher ground by quoting conservative values (or not quoting at all on some brochures) or they may be doing themselves a disservice.* It impacted my (rookie) opinion.


The graph is interesting to those of us who like seeing numbers and they provide details on where the point of damage may be.* The 805 = 1776 lbs, yet the graph indicates it can lift nearly twice that (off the ground) without damage to the tractor.* Impressive!* I ended up with a used DK5010 and its full height max is 2600 lbs, but there is no curve provided.**


Numbers are one thing, but it turns out operation performance tells the tale.* It was through TBN that I learned I would need ballast in the form of a counterweight.* I built a form on a pallet, had the local Ready-mix place fill it and load it on my trailer.* It weighed 1300+ lbs.* When I went to remove it from my trailer with my tractor pallet forks I could only reach such that it was 3' out on the 4' forks.* I raised my forks and the rear end of my supposedly 2600lb capable tractor (with loaded tires) came off the ground. I nearly wet the seat - that feel provided a reality check ;-).* After pulling the pallet to the rear of the trailer I gingerly lifted the pallet a few inches while my wife pulled the trailer ahead.* I was still afraid to back up.**

Now that the 1300lb ballast is on the rear of my tractor I can comfortably lift heavy objects with my bucket or forks.* I still cannot quote what percentage of the 2600lbs I can lift, but I can safely say it it is NOW more than 1300 lbs/50% before the ballast was attached!!

No matter the brand, getting one's tractor setup properly is critical.*Advice from many on this list has made my tractor safer and more useful.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

talked to the owner of a kioti dealer other day which i happen to know(just came about wasnt in market for one), anyway he states that kubota is one of the lowest rated tractors out there as far as specs. says kioti has way higher lift capacties front and back and alot more flow as far as the hydraulic pumps. now i havent got into actual research of this myself, but was looking at some of your inputs for those who have owned/operated both and so on?? we do have a kubota now and have had for sometime, dont have to many complaints with it nice tractor. but when its time to replace wonder how much i should consider the kioti. is its usability as good or better?

Hydraulic flow specs for kioti are hard to find or not published at all. I couldn't find them when I was searching for a tractor. Look at my matrix, any of them, in this thread:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...tor-sizing-comparison-choices-help-slide1-jpg

The hyd flow is blank, so I couldn't effectively compare kioti with other brands on this point.

See if he can get you those numbers, since he's bragging on them.

The Kioti that I tested I could not make the loader go up or down smoothly it was very jerky in comparison to the Kubota.

 

[grsthegreat]

My 2010 Kioti DK45 cab unit was spaced to lift 2700 pounds. With rear ballast I have indeed lifted this much weight many, many times. I lift bags of concrete on pallets so I know exactly how much I am lifting.

 

[RSR]

My 2010 Kioti DK45 cab unit was spaced to lift 2700 pounds. With rear ballast I have indeed lifted this much weight many, many times. I lift bags of concrete on pallets so I know exactly how much I am lifting.

This is a bit of a misunderstanding, along with what PEJ5 said earlier:

"It weighed 1300+ lbs.* When I went to remove it from my trailer with my tractor pallet forks I could only reach such that it was 3' out on the 4' forks.* I raised my forks and the rear end of my supposedly 2600lb capable tractor (with loaded tires) came off the ground."

When you lift a pallet, you know the weight that you are lifting, but you don't know the center of mass (necessarily) that you are lifting. The location of the center of mass relative to the pivot pin will make a HUGE difference in what you are able to lift. This is precisely why PEJ5 said he couldn't lift 1300 lb on his 2600 lb. The tractor is rated for 2600 lb at the pivot pins As you move away from the pivot pins, this capacity decreases precipitously because of the additional moment that you are introducing. Any loader lift capacity decreases as the center of mass moves away from the pivot pin. This is why Kubota (again, kudos for doing this) provides curves for lift capacity at the pivot pins, as well as 500 mm in front of the pivot pins. The capacity at 500 mm is a more realistic amount you will actually be able to lift, as most loads will have a center of mass in roughly this location. You'll notice there is a significant difference between the two curves.

Having said that, any loader will experience a similar percentage decrease in lifting capacity as you move the load away from the pivot pin. So, comparing specs at the pivot pin between loaders allows you to see which will lift more, but the number that is spec'd is not an accurate representation of what you will actually be able to lift.

This seems to be a common misconception that comes up a lot, which is why I think you see a lot of tractor owners saying "specs aren't any good, real world experience is what matters." Yes, that is true, because lift capacity away from the pivot pin is what really matters. However, any loader that lifts more at the pivot pin when compared to another loader at the pivot pin, is still going to lift more further away from the pivot pin as well. Therefore, comparing specs at the pivot pin, which is what is usually provided, still allows you to assess which loader will ultimately have a higher real-world lift capacity.

 

[k0ua]

Interesting thread. Having owned a Kubota L3400 35 hp class tractor and replaced it with my current DK35se 35 hp class tractor, I can make some observations. Yes my Kioti has much more weight in the frame, and larger tires, and the loader is a few hundred pounds more powerful. The 3pt is a few hundred pounds more lift, The pump flow is a few more gallons per minute. etc.

BUT the Kioti has many many more useful features like telescoping lower links, telescoping sway bars, rear 3pt control, draft control (one that I don't use but it is there) easy operating of 4wd and PTO controls as they are electric/hydraulic instead of mechanical, and on and on in the feature list. BUT the comparison between my previous Kubota and my current Kioti is not actually a fair comparison. The Kubota is a so called "Standard L", NOT a Grand L. My Kioti is really built much more like a Grand L, and the specifications are much closer in all respects.

Yes my previous Kubota and my current Kioti are nominally the same size tractor from a horsepower and overall frame size class, but with 1066 more pounds of steel in its frame in the form of larger axles and just more "meat" overall in there somewhere, they really aren't the same tractors. My point is, making comparison lists is a very difficult thing to do and people making the lists sometimes compare tractors that are really sold to different price points and have different purposes.

Now on to the paint speculation: I had a can of Kubota branded Kubota #2 paint left over from my Kubota ownership and I have been using it for touch up on my Kioti now for some time. It is a perfect match, at least to my eyes. Mine is a 2012.

 

[k0ua]

Oh, bottom line: Is my Kioti a better tractor (at least for me and what I do) than the Kubota that it replaced? Yeah. In spades. It has many "luxury" features that make operation much better, It came with essential features like SSQA standard, It lifts more pulls more, flows more and is just "better" in all respects. Does this mean the Kubota was a "bad" tractor? NO not at all, but for me the Kioti offered more tractor for the same amount of money.

 

[murphy1244]

Oh, bottom line: Is my Kioti a better tractor (at least for me and what I do) than the Kubota that it replaced? Yeah. In spades. It has many "luxury" features that make operation much better, It came with essential features like SSQA standard, It lifts more pulls more, flows more and is just "better" in all respects. Does this mean the Kubota was a "bad" tractor? NO not at all, but for me the Kioti offered more tractor for the same amount of money.

Very well said James.:thumbsup:

 

[Steppenwolfe]

When I was looking to buy my first tractor for our property I looked at the Kubota MX5100 and a Kioti. The only reason I looked at the Kioti was because I saw the orange tractors and stopped, not realizing they weren't Kubota's. Anyway I was there and putzed around with one and just didn't care for it. I can't even remember what it was. My wife was with me, and she didn't care for them either and said, let's go back and buy the Kubota. I enjoy having all Kubota equipment and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[coobie]

He is full of it. Kubota makes a good machine. Don't deal with a dealer that has to put other brands down to sell a machine

PLUS 1 Murph..I agree..

 

[waendo]

When I was looking to buy my first tractor for our property I looked at the Kubota MX5100 and a Kioti. The only reason I looked at the Kioti was because I saw the orange tractors and stopped, not realizing they weren't Kubota's. Anyway I was there and putzed around with one and just didn't care for it. I can't even remember what it was. My wife was with me, and she didn't care for them either and said, let's go back and buy the Kubota. I enjoy having all Kubota equipment and wouldn't have it any other way.

Brain rot?

 

[coobie]

I am stull curious if Kioti would ever have gotten to where they are if they had chosen their "own" color?

Ingersoll to.LOL

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Brain rot?

I have no idea what you are implying... :confused3: